What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

WrenBoy

whysobecause wrote: »

Has Ebun Joseph every had a real job, meaning a job that is not a government or government retaliated job.

She's also had a short stint as an influential art critic.

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I understand quite a lot. Like wearing adequate face masks, regular washing of hands, good ventilation of small areas, etc. You can still minimize the risks involved. I know people whose partner got covid, they shared the same living areas, ate in proximity to each other, and the virus didn't spread. Strange that, no?



First off, the comment about deporting people from nursing homes is dramatic crap, and if you really want me to respect your opinions, leave out the juvenile point scoring.

Secondly, there's been little hard research done on the manner in which the virus spread in the meat packing plants. Just plenty of assumptions.

Third, if we deport them, they're not getting back in because they've already broken our immigration laws once. Hence, they're not the kind of people we really want here.. no? After all, I assume you want people to respect our laws, and culture?



Eradicate? Err.. I suspect you have a much different perception of what covid is, and what a possible vaccine represents. In any case, that's for the covid threads, and not for this one.

We dont know why some people aren't getting infected , yet, there is done work being done on type O blood types being immune or less susceptible. Yes, I know the vaccine will only protect you for a limited period. How about targeting those most st risk of getting and spreading it so it gets is done to zero COVID faster. You don't have to let those deported back in for them to spread it internationally, in transit etc. I take it you'd like international travel to resume quickly? And while we are waiting to deport all these people are we going to hold them in one massive centre? Deport them all on the same day or just let the virus keep doing the rounds till they're all gone, back to wherever they come from, unvaccinated ready to infect their populations which will, sooner rather than later, find its way back to us here. Or we can quickly vaccinate them here and eliminate a major contributor to the spread of the virus.

Gervais08

WrenBoy wrote: »

She's also had a short stint as an influential art critic.

That made me chuckle !!!

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

How about targeting those most st risk of getting and spreading it so it gets is done to zero COVID faster.

How about we prioritize those who make the most difference to the economy? Offices were shown to be susceptible to the spread of the virus, especially the larger open floor plans favored by the bigger companies. By getting people back into work, we cut down the costs to the state, increase tax revenues, etc etc..

Or we prioritize people who don't contribute much to the economy.

You see, I don't accept that these migrants are the most at risk.

You don't have to let those deported back in for them to spread it internationally, in transit etc.

I'd like them to be deported because they're undocumented migrants, here illegally. Simple enough.

I take it you'd like international travel to resume quickly?

I'd love for it to happen, but it won't. Deporting these migrants won't make a difference to the problems with international travel.

And while we are waiting to deport all these people are we going to hold them in one massive centre? Deport them all on the same day or just let the virus keep doing the rounds till they're all gone, back to wherever they come from, unvaccinated ready to infect their populations which will, sooner rather than later, find its way back to us here. Or we can quickly vaccinate them here and eliminate a major contributor to the spread of the virus.

As things stand nobody has a vaccine, so it's not like we're seeking to infect any country. It's a simple enough procedure to determine if people are infected anyway, so we can still deport those who are healthy.

You really want these migrants to stay in Ireland. Why?

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How about we prioritize those who make the most difference to the economy? Offices were shown to be susceptible to the spread of the virus, especially the larger open floor plans favored by the bigger companies. By getting people back into work, we cut down the costs to the state, increase tax revenues, etc etc..

Or we prioritize people who don't contribute much to the economy.

You see, I don't accept that these migrants are the most at risk.



I'd like them to be deported because they're undocumented migrants, here illegally. Simple enough.



I'd love for it to happen, but it won't. Deporting these migrants won't make a difference to the problems with international travel.



As things stand nobody has a vaccine, so it's not like we're seeking to infect any country. It's a simple enough procedure to determine if people are infected anyway, so we can still deport those who are healthy.

You really want these migrants to stay in Ireland. Why?

Actually, ifint give a sh1t, one way or another.Ehat I want its i9 year old Dad to be vaccinated and enough if the population protected from the virus so services can reopen,so, as a carer, I can have a break for the first time since March. If those most likely to spread it to me, to you, to the care staff in the day centre are targeted with the vaccine then that's fine by me. I prefer to listen to those with expertise in the area.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

Actually, ifint give a sh1t, one way or another.Ehat I want its i9 year old Dad to be vaccinated and enough if the population protected from the virus so services can reopen,so, as a carer, I can have a break for the first time since March.

If I manage to understand this correctly, this is more about vaccinating the elderly, who should be prioritized in any case. As for the rest of the population, take a look at the demand for the vaccine worldwide, the production that's likely to be available, and how much Ireland is likely to get in comparison to other countries....

If those most likely to spread it to me, to you, to the care staff in the day centre are targeted with the vaccine then that's fine by me. I prefer to listen to those with expertise in the area.

Right.... because you're meeting these undocumented migrants every day, and are in close proximity with them. Yup.

goose2005

WrenBoy wrote: »

She's also had a short stint as an influential art critic.

she used to do a wine column in the Times too, "sweet with bouquets of redcurrants"

John Doe1

So I guess we won’t be able to discuss this topic soon.....

WrenBoy

John Doe1 wrote: »

So I guess we won’t be able to discuss this topic soon.....

Maybe we can apply for a opinion licence or something, we'll have to see.

Wibbs

I don't see why not, if facts are argued in a measured way and that goes for any subject. In the hate speech legislation thread I gave this as an example: If someone says "all Travellers are criminals" that's pretty obvious, but if another says "Travellers have a wildly disproportionate level of criminality compared to the rest of the population" that's a fact. I'd like to see any Irish court of law openly criminalise anyone over a demonstrable fact. AFAIK that would be similar in cases of libel? So if I publicly state something like [insert individual here] is a tax dodger I'd be in trouble, but not if [insert individual here] is in the clink serving time for tax dodging. Though some of the perpetually offended on behalf of others/making money from offence in the media and NGO's might have a fit, that would be very bad optics for our system of law and government.

Kivaro

We should never be afraid to discuss this or any other topic for fear of retribution, because this is exactly what the vocal minority want. Those people want censorship, but not of their views.

I posted very early on this thread on how I supported multiculturalism in Ireland, but not in the manner that it is being forced on us. The contrived and lack-of-planning methodology does not seem to be working for Ireland. With 20% of our population born outside the country, the speed of the change of our demographic is damaging in so many ways .......... from cultural, criminality, housing, access to healthcare and other services etc.

Interesting to read that Russian President Vladimir Putin said yesterday that the EU project of implementing multiculturalism in the European society had failed.
"This multiculturalism project [in EU] was a fiasco, it collapsed, and many who called for this project and for its implementation were forced to admit it. While here [in Russia] it has self-evolved over the centuries, and we value it very much," Putin said during his annual press conference.

He does have a point. Self-evolving multiculturalism should have been Ireland's approach, instead of the hasty forced (contrived) method that the country's politicians and civil service implemented in the last 20 or so years.

Wibbs

Kivaro wrote: »

Self-evolving multiculturalism should have been Ireland's approach, instead of the hasty forced (contrived) method that the country's politicians and civil service implemented in the last 20 or so years.

I'd see it as more the other way around K. Rather than the politicians and civil service implementing anything it was much more a case of it happening because of the birthright loophole and the celtic tiger and latterly the EU opening her gates to "refugees" and the government having to react to it and not quite knowing how.

Much like multiculturalism hit Britain and France etc before us like a ton of bricks because of their imperial past and them having to react to it. Colony nations like America had based their need for bodies were dealing with it from the start and badly. Both though different approaches show it doesn't work in so many ways.

Russia had neither. Indeed during communism and just after the fall of same far more wanted to leave than wanted to go there. They've not had to deal with multiculturalism because of that. If in ten years Russia was one of the richest nations on earth and weren't proactive with their borders they'd be dealing with the same problems too. So Putin claiming any sort of foresight and insight around multiculturalism is up there with a man claiming he knows what pregnancy and birth is like.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Russia had neither. Indeed during communism and just after the fall of same far more wanted to leave than wanted to go there. They've not had to deal with multiculturalism because of that. If in ten years Russia was one of the richest nations on earth and weren't proactive with their borders they'd be dealing with the same problems too. So Putin claiming any sort of foresight and insight around multiculturalism is up there with a man claiming he knows what pregnancy and birth is like.

Except Russia does have immigration, and a degree of multiculturalism. They receive many migrants from Asia, and due to being such a huge territorial nation, they have a broad selection of cultures to deal with from the onset.

When I was in Moscow 20 years ago, there were areas which were known to be ethnic driven. A small Chinatown, with Mongolians, Thai, Chinese etc.

That they haven't had to deal with mass immigration from Africa is one thing.. and probably due to the open racism that exists in Russia towards Black people, but it's there nonetheless. Same with China. Open racism towards Black people, but they still receive large numbers of migrants seeking to live there. Not to the terms of mass immigration, but multiculturalism is happening in both countries, just without any official support... which is probably why the effects are limited.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

With 20% of our population born outside the country,

Looks like a large percentage.
How many are Irish though?

biko

In 2016, there were 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland.
In 2019, there were 622,700 non-Irish nationals living in Ireland.

Kivaro

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd see it as more the other way around K. Rather than the politicians and civil service implementing anything it was much more a case of it happening because of the birthright loophole and the celtic tiger and latterly the EU opening her gates to "refugees" and the government having to react to it and not quite knowing how.

Yes, I would be inclined to agree.
The fact that this was also the time of extreme PC and virtual signaling, the government just let the flood gates open for all sorts of asylum chancers, sham citizenship weddings, scam English schools, and non-EU economic migration for those who did not have the language or skillset or indeed the desire to integrate with local communities in Ireland.

We, and our children and their children, will be paying for those mistakes for some time to come.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Looks like a large percentage.
How many are Irish though?

Any update on this?

biko

You can see my numbers above. Do the calculations.

I assume by "Irish" you mean "has Irish passport".

biko

biko wrote: »

You can see my numbers above. Do the calculations.

I assume by "Irish" you mean "has Irish passport".

The poster said 20% of our population was foreign born, I asked how many of those are irish. Your figures don't answer that.
And I mean Irish, what do you mean by irish?

biko

Do you mean how many of the 20% of the population born outside Ireland are now Irish (have acquired an Irish passport)?
Or maybe born in America with an Irish passport and have moved here?

Unclear questions gets unclear answers.

biko

biko wrote: »

Do you mean how many of the 20% of the population born outside Ireland are now Irish (have acquired an Irish passport)?
Or maybe born in America with an Irish passport and have moved here?

Unclear questions gets unclear answers.

No, it is a very clear question. How many of the 20% foreign born population are irish?

ExMachina1000

bubblypop wrote: »

No, it is a very clear question. How many of the 20% foreign born population are irish?

None. They were not born in this country.

Do I win?

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

None. They were not born in this country.

Do I win?

No.
Do you think everyone born here is irish?

ExMachina1000

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Do you think everyone born here is irish?

Only if they have ties to the country.

Do you?

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Only if they have ties to the country.

Do you?

No, the law is quite clear.
So how do you define an Irish citizen then?

biko

A citizen has citizenship. It's really that simple.

biko

biko wrote: »

A citizen has citizenship. It's really that simple.

OK, so another simple question.
How many foreign born people in this country are Irish?

Eric Cartman

bubblypop wrote: »

OK, so another simple question.
How many foreign born people in this country are Irish?

Only ones with a native irish parent or parents

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Only ones with a native irish parent or parents

Well that's not actually accurate. But you know that!

So, how many Irish people in Ireland are foreign born?

biko

How is it going with your unclear question, still no answer I see.

Did you try the google machine?

The number of people in Ireland who hold dual Irish nationality has increased by nearly 90 per cent over the last five years, according to the latest data from the census. People from the United States, the United Kingdom and Poland are most likely to identify as dual Irish nationals.

Nearly two-thirds of dual nationals, or 66,440 people, were born abroad.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-with-dual-irish-nationality-soars-by-nearly-90-1.3229081

biko, googling things for others since 2005