What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Dyr

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It’s clear reading this thread that there is a lack of understanding of difference culture and citizenship.

It took acceptance of multiple cultures and religions to bring peace to this small island of Ireland and to extend citizenship to everyone from this island and then some more.

Ah yes, the plantation of Ulster as an example of the benefits of multiculturalism. Whats next on your list of Chemical Ali posts: The civil war in the Former Yugoslavia is a shining example of how Balkanisation benefits a region?

MikeOxsgreen

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Fill your boots

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8e/

You might need to reframe your question though - it makes no sense

How does it not make sense?

biko

To advocate for immigration with any type of properly based analysis on economics is naïve at best.
All we need to do is to look around us.

Sweden is often heralded by the left as a forerunner on all things good and wise. But is it?
A Swedish town, Sandviken (the size of Dundalk), took on many immigrants in 2014.
It was said it would benefit the town by half a billion Swedish crowns.
Five years later Sandviken is in arrears of millions...

A Swedish professor of political economy, Mats Hammarstedt, says immigration to Sweden will not benefit the country within any foreseeable future.
https://www.di.se/debatt/migrationen-en-fortsatt-forlustaffar-for-sverige/



20 years ago approx 55.000 people in Sweden were born in Africa and 220.000 born in Asia.
In 2019 230.000 people in Sweden were born in Africa, and 780.000 born in Asia.
In 20 years the governments and NGOs have moved over 1 million people into the country (Africans/Asians/Europeans/others)
Only around a quarter of Africans/Asians work.

Were the Swedes invited to have their say on such a gigantic change to their country? No.
Will the Irish have a chance to have their say? Hopefully.

Strumms

biko wrote: »

To advocate for immigration with any type of properly based analysis on economics is naïve at best.
All we need to do is to look around us.

Sweden is often heralded by the left as a forerunner on all things good and wise. But is it?
A Swedish town, Sandviken (the size of Dundalk), took on many immigrants in 2014.
It was said it would benefit the town by half a billion Swedish crowns.
Five years later Sandviken is in arrears of millions...

A Swedish professor of political economy, Mats Hammarstedt, says immigration to Sweden will not benefit the country within any foreseeable future.
https://www.di.se/debatt/migrationen-en-fortsatt-forlustaffar-for-sverige/



20 years ago approx 55.000 people in Sweden were born in Africa and 220.000 born in Asia.
In 2019 230.000 people in Sweden were born in Africa, and 780.000 born in Asia.
In 20 years the governments and NGOs have moved over 1 million people into the country (Africans/Asians/Europeans/others)
Only around a quarter of Africans/Asians work.

Were the Swedes invited to have their say on such a gigantic change to their country? No.
Will the Irish have a chance to have their say? Hopefully.

And has Sweden been victim to several Islamic terrorist attacks ? Yes.

Sweden have had 5 people die and 15 injured in Islamic terrorist attacks since 2016.

kildare lad

Different cultures from European countries I'll take , anyone else from the third world , no thanks .

Regarding Sweden.

"The investigation (from 2002 to 2017) covers seven distinct categories of crime, and distinguishes between seven regions of origin. Based on 33 per cent of the population (2017), 58 per cent of those suspect for total crime on reasonable grounds are migrants. Regarding murder, manslaughter and attempted murder, the figures are 73 per cent, while the proportion of robbery is 70 per cent. Non-registered migrants are linked to about 13 per cent of total crime. Given the fact that this group is small, crime propensity among non-registered migrants is significant"

" Due to migration, murder rate in Sweden has quadrupled"

And yes, many migrants don't engage in crime, but the fact remains that Sweden, the poster child for rapid change of a mostly homogeneous population, has experienced a huge increase in crime, and one that can be directly connected to it's immigration policies.

The full report is definitely worth a read. After reading it, perhaps ask the question, why would Ireland be different?

SharpshooterTom

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, and someone born to Irish parents in some other country is Irish

Legally perhaps, but few people in Ireland truly regard the likes of Johnny Rotten, The Gallagher brothers, Morrissey, Jimmy Carr as Irish people.

SharpshooterTom

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

Legally perhaps, but few people in Ireland truly regard the likes of Johnny Rotten, The Gallagher brothers, Morrissey, Jimmy Carr as Irish people.

Are posters on this thread actually for real?
We don't want people born here to be automatically Irish
People born to Irish people, we don't think of them as Irish
So exactly who do you think should be Irish?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

How does it not make sense?

"How many foreign born people in Ireland are Irish?"

Being Irish is not a Population Unique or unique identifier.

You could be foreign born and Irish and something else- dual nationality - (numbers were given to you)
Unless you identify as dual nationality, the stats don't record someone as no longer identifying as their country of birth, only their current nationality.
You could be temporarily living in Ireland , and foreign born, but Irish, but resident elsewhere.
You could be Irish, foreign born, living abroad with a registered address in Ireland.

The CSO stats were given to you. Thats the official record of who's who. If you cant answer your question from the official records, you need to reframe your question. Either it doesn't make sense, or unanswerable in its format. In your case, possibly both.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So, in what way is the demographic changing?
How many of the 20% foreign born are irish and in what way does that change the demographic?

Of course I shouldn't expect any straight answers from anyone here!

kivaro stated that 20% of our population is foreign born, and that the quick changes in our demographic are worrying.
I asked the above, but that poster doesn't want to answer.
Nobody does it seems, perhaps having one fifth of our population as foreign born somehow suits the anti immigration brigade.

And then there are posters staying that people born to Irish parents are not really Irish either!!

ExMachina1000

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-24/21/

A vote for SF is a vote for birthright citizenship

Yurt2

When the penny drops with the political class the ramifications of reintroducing birthright citizenship, it wont be long before removing it is back on the agenda. A completely crazy idea that nobody but the sanctimonious right-on brigade want.

Children born in Ireland already have a path to citizenship. Provided their parents followed the rule book, that being they migrated here legally and weren't overstayers.

Illegal immigration should not be rewarded.

If this does get reversed it will show us what a small group of anti-democratic people can do in a supposedly democratic country. A country that voted overwhelmingly to remove it around the same time they voted for the GFA. One is sacrosanct never to be touched the other is inconvenient, misconceived, a stain on our character and needs to be revisited.

Kivaro

Deleted User wrote: »

Then, perhaps, you shouldn't shift goalposts so much? You got your answers, including Biko providing links, but.. that's not good enough for you.

But I'll leave it at that because I suspect I'll get a warning soon for pointing this out.

While one should make a reasonable effort to engage in discourse, the "ignore" button is a sensible option. That's what I did many moons ago ..... due to the numerous examples that can be seen on this and other threads.

WrenBoy

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-24/21/

A vote for SF is a vote for birthright citizenship

Have Sinn Fein just entirely abandoned any notion of nationalism ?

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

While one should make a reasonable effort to engage in discourse, the "ignore" button is a sensible option. That's what I did many moons ago ..... due to the numerous examples that can be seen on this and other threads.

I generally prefer not to.. but you're right. There's no point engaging with some people, who never listen, and don't want to learn. Considering the way, the administration of posts have gone, it's best not to engage with them at all, once they've shown themselves the type of poster that they are.

Good call.

WrenBoy

WrenBoy wrote: »

Have Sinn Fein just entirely abandoned any notion of nationalism ?

The United Ireland dream is still there, but they don't see it as a nation of Irish people anymore. I suspect they've spent so long fighting/hating the British that they've become just like them in many ways.

They want a foundation of support from the downtrodden, the poor, the discriminated against, because they're the easiest to manipulate... easy to reach the anger and bitterness that they have over being in that situation, and it's very easy to tap into that anger by blaming others for their situation, while also promising improvements that never need to be delivered.

This is what they've been doing in Ireland and with Irish people for a long time, but people are starting to recognise the game being played.. so they need a new foundation of support, with impoverished migrants being the most suitable bet.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

While one should make a reasonable effort to engage in discourse, the "ignore" button is a sensible option. That's what I did many moons ago ..... due to the numerous examples that can be seen on this and other threads.

I suppose if you can't answer reasonable questions by posters you're probably better off ignoring those questions.

Kivaro

WrenBoy wrote: »

Have Sinn Fein just entirely abandoned any notion of nationalism ?

I've said it before, but Sinn Fein has turned into the most anti-nationalist party on this Island. In recent years (2009), the new Sinn Fein advocated for entry into Ireland for all asylum seekers, both political and economical. Their most recent policy document on asylum seekers state that they should not be deported for any reason. Those asylum seekers who commit murder, rape, child sex trafficking into Ireland etc.; all of which there are documented cases by asylum seekers in this country, should never be deported according to Sinn Fein.

The only reasons that they get votes currently is due to the disillusioned core voter and the extremely poor quality of the other political parties, which results in a substantial protest vote. And, there is a contingent of voter who will vote for Sinn Fein in the hope that they do indeed get into power, which in turn will be disastrous for the country, bring it to its knees, and will result in the pragmatic reset for the country that is badly needed.

Granadino

One thing I notice is a lot of kids of the "new Irish", as some folk would call them, speak with American accents....

biko

It's quite common to conflate having Irish citizenship with being Irish.

I think this, kinda, explains what being Irish means:
At its core being Irish means being born on the island of Ireland, even more so than having Irish heritage.
Identity is linked to the land and most crises of identity come when someone leaves the land.

WrenBoy

Granadino wrote: »

One thing I notice is a lot of kids of the "new Irish", as some folk would call them, speak with American accents....

I cant speak to your experience Granadino but I've actually noticed a lot of Irish kids doing the same thing with American and English accents, my cousins son being one. He picked up this proper English accent from watching the likes of Peppa Pig and BBC cartoons, Youtube is also causing a lot of American accents in young kids according to primary teacher friends of mine, but they grow out of them quick enough. Well, I hope so anyway.

biko

biko wrote: »

It's quite common to conflate having Irish citizenship with being Irish.

I think this, kinda, explains what being Irish means:
At its core being Irish means being born on the island of Ireland, even more so than having Irish heritage.
Identity is linked to the land and most crises of identity come when someone leaves the land.

I suspect the opposite is true, TBH. I find the Irish people I know abroad are far more proud of being Irish, and are more interested in maintaining that identity. Each time I come home to Ireland, I've noticed a decline in "Irish" behaviors/traditions, with a greater focus on being "international".

biko

biko wrote: »

It's quite common to conflate having Irish citizenship with being Irish.

I think this, kinda, explains what being Irish means:
At its core being Irish means being born on the island of Ireland, even more so than having Irish heritage.
Identity is linked to the land and most crises of identity come when someone leaves the land.

So why against automatic citizenship for people born here then?
If that's what makes you Irish?

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

So why against automatic citizenship for people born here then?
If that's what makes you Irish?

Most people born here get citizenship.

biko

That jus soli removal rule came in to prevent people from travelling here while heavily pregnant only in order to have a baby here so the family could stay.

It's was "pull" factor and now it's gone. I assume you want it back? Isn't there a thread for jus soli you should ask in?

biko

The problem with Islam is once it takes root it becomes the monoculture.
Once Christians and Jews existed in every country in the Middle East, now they don't.

New Norwegians


New Swedes


New French

kildare lad

WrenBoy wrote: »

Have Sinn Fein just entirely abandoned any notion of nationalism ?

Brits out , foreigners in !!

biko

biko wrote: »

That jus soli removal rule came in to prevent people from travelling here while heavily pregnant only in order to have a baby here so the family could stay.

It's was "pull" factor and now it's gone. I assume you want it back? Isn't there a thread for jus soli you should ask in?

No, I never said I was for automatic citizenship.

I'm really not sure what posters here actually want.
No automatic citizenship, but you're only really Irish if you're born on the island.
People born here to foreign parents are their parents nationality but people born to Irish parents overseas are not really irish?

kildare lad

biko wrote: »

The problem with Islam is once it takes root it becomes the monoculture.
Once Christians and Jews existed in every country in the Middle East, now they don't.

New Norwegians


New Swedes


New French

And how does this benefit Ireland or any other EU city ? Id love to see all those lgbt , gender confused lefties walk by them holding hands . They wouldn't be long getting ran out of it