What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

statesaver

bubblypop wrote: »

We do have people in need. However, we are quite capable of helping another 5000 a year, and there's no reason to think those people will always need help.

Is that 5000 made up of family units or 5000 individuals ?

Hellokitty1212

bubblypop wrote: »

Ooh sarcasm!
I don't have any issues with giving to charity. Certain ones
Do you have an issue with people that help disadvantaged children?

I don’t see many disadvantaged children on the boats swarming into the UK.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

It seems it strongly depends on the demographic involved. In Ireland half of all African origin people in this country are not considered "economically active" and have a social welfare impact far higher than any other demographic outside Travellers. This trend is reflected throughout the EU. It's not "race" either as Pakistani origin people throughout Europe show a similar trend towards the bottom, yet Indian origin people show the opposite and indeed on average outperform the native populations. Same "race". More locally Travellers couldn't be any more White and Irish and yet trend to the bottom.

Yes, but as I said before, I believe everybody in this country should be encouraged into work & education.
Everyone, incentives to get off social assistance, nobody wants generations of welfare families living off the state.
I guess, the difference with how we think, is that I don't think a few thousand a year is a big deal, you don't want any!
I don't think we will ever agree on that.
But, when it comes to multiculturalism it's not just asylum seekers that matter

Hellokitty1212

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

I don’t see many disadvantaged children on the boats swarming into the UK.

No, they wash up on other shores.
Seriously, who in their right mind would drag.kids through that journey if they don't have to? First, get out, get sorted in another country, then bring your family. Makes sense.

You do know.what.UNICEF is right?

Mad_maxx

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes, but as I said before, I believe everybody in this country should be encouraged into work & education.
Everyone, incentives to get off social assistance, nobody wants generations of welfare families living off the state.
I guess, the difference with how we think, is that I don't think a few thousand a year is a big deal, you don't want any!
I don't think we will ever agree on that.
But, when it comes to multiculturalism it's not just asylum seekers that matter

you are wrong about that , there are plenty of well paid jobs in the NGO victim industry who have a vested interest in certain demographics never weaning themselves of the dependency culture , not only that ,empowering them to be more self enterprising is viewed as an attack on culture with respect of travellers

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote:

We do have people in need. However, we are quite capable of helping another 5000 a year, and there's no reason to think those people will always need help.

Except there is. Research into people who have been on welfare for extended periods, show a dependency occurring which is often passed on to their children. Often the research shows people will leave welfare, and return to it after a year. After all, if you've grown up receiving aid from the government, there's a natural inclination to believe that you could avail of the same benefits your parents received.

Considering the sheer numbers (% have been noted on the thread previously) of migrants who end up on government supports, or are unable to find permanent work, it's hardly a stretch of imagination to believe that these migrant groups would be equally affected. In fact, considering the range of supports and pressure to provide for minorities and other racial groups, it's not much of a leap to consider a greater risk for migrant families remaining on welfare supports, since the availability of those supports is actually stronger. As a minority.

That can easily be seen with the Traveller community who, in spite of a wide range of supports, and recognition as a disadvantaged ethnic group, consistently remain a substantial presence on welfare.

There is too much wishful thinking going on here. 5k people a year, with variable education/skills, and likely a range of problems (mental/health etc), in addition to a limited range of employment for them... Where's the system to get them educated and employed in the shortest period possible?

Mad_maxx

bubblypop wrote: »

No, they wash up on other shores.
Seriously, who in their right mind would drag.kids through that journey if they don't have to? First, get out, get sorted in another country, then bring your family. Makes sense.

You do know.what.UNICEF is right?

The truly needy and wretched in Africa or anywhere else havent the price of bribing people smugglers to put them on a dingy to europe

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Seriously, who in their right mind would drag.kids through that journey

The kind of people that we don't need here.

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

Ooh sarcasm!
I don't have any issues with giving to charity. Certain ones
Do you have an issue with people that help disadvantaged children?

Why don't you give to all charities? How do you choose between them?
You know that by not giving to all you are choosing to help some people over others?
Welcome to the dark side where we choose to help some people over others because we have limited resources.

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

No, they wash up on other shores.

Your statement refers to Alan Kurdi whose picture was put on every frontpage to say how important it is to let refugees into Europe.
First of all, Europe didn't kill Alan, his own father caused his death.
Secondly, NGOs in Europe is enticing the migrants to take these journeys and die.

The blood is on the hands of the people enticing these migrants to risk the journey across the sea.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

It seems it strongly depends on the demographic involved. In Ireland half of all African origin people in this country are not considered "economically active" and have a social welfare impact far higher than any other demographic outside Travellers. This trend is reflected throughout the EU. It's not "race" either as Pakistani origin people throughout Europe show a similar trend towards the bottom, yet Indian origin people show the opposite and indeed on average outperform the native populations. Same "race". More locally Travellers couldn't be any more White and Irish and yet trend to the bottom.

Wibbs can I ask you the source of this, I have had a quick google and cant seem to find anything obvious.

Montage of Feck

bubblypop wrote: »

5000 a year is not many.

Multiply that by the social welfare bill, school places, healthcare, etc. every year? We are going to have to plant a forest of magical money trees.

Hellokitty1212

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Multiply that by the social welfare bill, school places, healthcare, etc. every year? We are going have to plant a forest of magical money trees.

These deluded people don’t ever factor in that, or the endless family reunification claims that will follow.

Edit - not referring to poster “bubbly pop” there individually. Apologies if that is how it came over.

biko

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Multiply that by the social welfare bill, school places, healthcare, etc. every year? We are going have to plant a forest of magical money trees.

Note that people like bubblypop wants you as taxpayer to pay for what they think is a good cause (immigration and later bringing relatives over).
It's like I would force bubbly to pay for COPE Galway, because I think it's a good cause.

I don't, because my political view doesn't involve forcing my fellow Irish to do things.

Please don't get offended bubbly, I am not trying to single you out personally.

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wibbs can I ask you the source of this, I have had a quick google and cant seem to find anything obvious.

Good point R, links or GTFO as they used to say.

Here's one, a UCD study. PDF format.

https://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/workingpapers/gearywp201816.pdf

O’Connell and Kenny (2017) show that only about 40% of adult African nationals in Ireland are employed, far less than the average for Irish natives or for other immigrant groups. They also suffer much higher rates of unemployment than the national average.

The African disadvantage is evident for both men and women. About 50% of African males are employed, about 10 percentage points lower than the average employment rate. African women are even more disadvantaged: their employment rate, less than 38%, is 17 percentage points below the average female employment rate.

Now it's a long document, but worth ploughing through and it's not just Africans who have higher unemployment rates, but they are at the most extreme end. And yes I have zero doubt that discrimination is indeed a very large part of it. However that's not going away anytime soon and is reflected in all the other European nations who've had much longer experience with multiculturalism. There are other factors too. IMHO the very "attractive" social welfare system in Ireland means you're going to find more people coming here regardless of origin to take advantage of that, or simply don't have as much pressure to actively find work.

Regardless of the reasons and there are many, it still boils down to why I think western multiculturalism is not the ideal we've been led to believe and for all concerned. Not least for those who are least like the natives wherever they are and this doesn't go away with time and the following generations. It improves on the surface and on the fringes, but go anywhere in Europe where western multiculturalism has been in play since not long after WW2 and you see the exact same trends today 50, 60 years into this social experiment. I certainly don't have to wonder why young Blacks and South Asians and Arabs are pissed off today. I would be. They well know they've been sold a pup. Not least by the overwhelmingly White middle class Right On brigade pushing this "diversity is our strength" stuff. Their reasoning seems to only boil down to three "positives": Exoticism for its own sake, a misplaced if understandable and laudable sense of charity and more workers.

rgossip30

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes, but as I said before, I believe everybody in this country should be encouraged into work & education.
Everyone, incentives to get off social assistance, nobody wants generations of welfare families living off the state.
I guess, the difference with how we think, is that I don't think a few thousand a year is a big deal, you don't want any!
I don't think we will ever agree on that.
But, when it comes to multiculturalism it's not just asylum seekers that matter

Turas Nua and Job Path only finds jobs for about 2% . The DSP wanted it closed down but government persisted . What incentives do you suggest .

DeadHand

biko wrote: »

Your statement refers to Alan Kurdi whose picture was put on every frontpage to say how important it is to let refugees into Europe.
First of all, Europe didn't kill Alan, his own father caused his death.
Secondly, NGOs in Europe is enticing the migrants to take these journeys and die.

The blood is on the hands of the people enticing these migrants to risk the journey across the sea.

Poor Alan Kurdi, a child killed by his father and then used as a propaganda tool for the plantation agenda.

His father was living safely in Turkey and was even gainfully employed. Like the overwhelming majority of people who claim the title, he was not an “asylum seeker”, but an illegal, economic migrant. His illegal actions resulted in the death of his son. Despite claiming to have fled Syria in terror, Mr. Kurdi proceeded to return comfortably to that country to bury his son. There are rumblings that the iconic picture itself was posed.

Alan Kurdi was perhaps the most famous victim of the “migrant crisis”: a great influx characterised by deceit and violence.

A great many more European children have been victimised and will be victimised for many generations due to the naivety, greed and cowardice of this generation’s ruling classes.

jmreire

DeadHand wrote: »

Poor Alan Kurdi, a child killed by his father and then used as a propaganda tool for the plantation agenda.

His father was living safely in Turkey and was even gainfully employed. Like the overwhelming majority of people who claim the title, he was not an “asylum seeker”, but an illegal, economic migrant. His illegal actions resulted in the death of his son. Despite claiming to have fled Syria in terror, Mr. Kurdi proceeded to return comfortably to that country to bury his son. There are rumblings that the iconic picture itself was posed.

Alan Kurdi was perhaps the most famous victim of the “migrant crisis”: a great influx characterised by deceit and violence.

A great many more European children have been victimised and will be victimised for many generations due to the naivety, greed and cowardice of this generation’s ruling classes.

The amount of anger that pic generated in Syria was unreal..their attitude was that since 2011, their children were dying in their thousands but only now the world is inflamed by the death of one child??? Where was this reaction when their children were being gassed and shot and starved? And they were right.

biko

biko wrote: »

Why don't you give to all charities? How do you choose between them?
You know that by not giving to all you are choosing to help some people over others?
Welcome to the dark side where we choose to help some people over others because we have limited resources.

Well, I'm tell you which ones I don't give money to.
St Vincent de Paul
Fr. Peter McVerry
The reason for that is, they pay of fines that criminals receive in court, so I don't give them money.
I will however give food or toys to either at certain times of the year.

So, I actually don't choose some people over others.

biko

biko wrote: »

Note that people like bubblypop wants you as taxpayer to pay for what they think is a good cause (immigration and later bringing relatives over).
It's like I would force bubbly to pay for COPE Galway, because I think it's a good cause.

I don't, because my political view doesn't involve forcing my fellow Irish to do things.

Please don't get offended bubbly, I am not trying to single you out personally.

And yet you did single me out personally

Hellokitty1212

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, I'm tell you which ones I don't give money to.
St Vincent de Paul
Fr. Peter McVerry
The reason for that is, they pay of fines that criminals receive in court, so I don't give them money.
I will however give food or toys to either at certain times of the year.

So, I actually don't choose some people over others.

Agree with you on both - I give to Focus as they have a drop in centre I used to walk past on my way to work (when that was a thing!) and they do good work.

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

Turas Nua and Job Path only finds jobs for about 2% . The DSP wanted it closed down but government persisted . What incentives do you suggest .

By making work more attractive then welfare.
As long as people can have a decent life living on welfare a certain amount of people will never work.

rgossip30

bubblypop wrote: »

By making work more attractive then welfare.
As long as people can have a decent life living on welfare a certain amount of people will never work.

There are those who will remain so regardless of incentives .

Burkie1203

Nice to see gsoc grow a pair


https://twitter.com/conormlally/status/1353386605554192391?s=19

ThunbergsAreGo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nice to see gsoc grow a pair


https://twitter.com/conormlally/status/1353386605554192391?s=19

Why do we continue to find these motonic NGOs?

The name sounds great, but that in the world do any of them actually do. Those quotes look like they came from a 20 year old on Twitter.

RobbieTheRobber

Kivaro wrote: »

Question asked:

Proof Provided:

And then:

I typed a post earlier and deleted it.
But nothing in this article wibbs linked actually supports his position.

The only thing he said supported by this study was his position that Africans and Asians are subject to discrimination in seeking employment. Other than that not a single one of his positions is supported by the study.

And rather than hit submit on a Hasty post I was going to review more recent CSO and Irish refugee council data as used by the author of this study who used 2011 census data. Once I had a better understanding of the more recent data I was going to refute wibbs post on the basis this study did not support his position. And further refute the claims on my hypothesis that note recent data would also fail to support the claims wibbs made.

Did you read the 20 odd pages of this document is there anything in there you think you would like to quote that supports wibbs position?

weldoninhio

biko wrote: »

Your statement refers to Alan Kurdi whose picture was put on every frontpage to say how important it is to let refugees into Europe.
First of all, Europe didn't kill Alan, his own father caused his death.
Secondly, NGOs in Europe is enticing the migrants to take these journeys and die.

The blood is on the hands of the people enticing these migrants to risk the journey across the sea.

And all because his father wanted the NHS to give him new teeth. Death by vanity.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Well, I'm tell you which ones I don't give money to.
St Vincent de Paul
Fr. Peter McVerry
The reason for that is, they pay of fines that criminals receive in court, so I don't give them money.
I will however give food or toys to either at certain times of the year.

So, I actually don't choose some people over others.

Prisoners aren’t people? That’s quite dehumanising.

Kivaro

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I typed a post earlier and deleted it.
But nothing in this article wibbs linked actually supports his position.

The only thing he said supported by this study was his position that Africans and Asians are subject to discrimination in seeking employment. Other than that not a single one of his positions is supported by the study.

And rather than hit submit on a Hasty post I was going to review more recent CSO and Irish refugee council data as used by the author of this study who used 2011 census data. Once I had a better understanding of the more recent data I was going to refute wibbs post on the basis this study did not support his position. And further refute the claims on my hypothesis that note recent data would also fail to support the claims wibbs made.

Did you read the 20 odd pages of this document is there anything in there you think you would like to quote that supports wibbs position?

Seems like my post was deleted.
If you search the thread (not too far back) you will find other sources that supports Wibb's position.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Prisoners aren’t people? That’s quite dehumanising.

They're not prisoners.