What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

amazing how you are on the internet, with all this information in front of you and you could not find out for yourself.
As someone a few years older than you I can assure you most definitely it was illegal to buy condoms thanks to the church's influence on the law.


google contraception in Ireland

Indeed I am not even 40 yet and I can remember the furore over the virgin record shops selling condoms illegally in the 90's.
https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/107832/richard-branson-ireland-has-come-a-long-way-since-i-was-fined-for-selling-condoms/

Wibbs

Yeah condoms were officially banned here until the early 90's, though you could get them before that. IIRC Virgin were sued in a civil case because they were selling them before that date?

Wibbs

As for Islam and attacks against Gay rights it's not such a recent thing. It was in active play from the 19th century on and has been doubled down on since, even when many Islamic countries went through a westernisation in the middle of the 20th century. That was a step too far even then.

But again the point is being avoided like the plague. The importation of conservative cultures and ideals and attitudes into the liberal west is hardly a positive. It certainly doesn't seem to influence many to shift more western merely because of exposure. If anything it reinforces an idea of a decadent west and we can see plenty of examples of that within Europe. That's on top of the importation of an extra underclass.

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

As for forcing indoctrination, I don't think it is, or can do so anymore. There are too many watchdog bodies or individuals to prevent such a thing.

Doesn't stop teachers marching the kids down to the local church to sing in the choir though. It's "music class".
The idea that all the religious teachings are secular now, is not credible.

Justin Credible Darts

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Indeed I am not even 40 yet and I can remember the furore over the virgin record shops selling condoms illegally in the 90's.
https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/107832/richard-branson-ireland-has-come-a-long-way-since-i-was-fined-for-selling-condoms/

you could not make it up.


The church who are suppose to represent people and be a guiding light, forbid the use of condoms during a time when aids was going on. The complete stupidity of that alone is something else., and people wonder why they laugh at thick micks.




Those same priests who were advocating sex is for pro creation were also busy raping kids without consequences.


The churchs influence on this country was an absolute disgrace.

CruelCoin

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

anyone brainwashing children with this god nonsense and telling them they are born with sin and guilt should be arrested for child abuse.

That's the crux of the argument for removing the church from schools.

Not all abuse is physical.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

As for Islam and attacks against Gay rights it's not such a recent thing. It was in active play from the 19th century on and has been doubled down on since, even when many Islamic countries went through a westernisation in the middle of the 20th century. That was a step too far even then.

But again the point is being avoided like the plague. The importation of conservative cultures and ideals and attitudes into the liberal west is hardly a positive. It certainly doesn't seem to influence many to shift more western merely because of exposure. If anything it reinforces an idea of a decadent west and we can see plenty of examples of that within Europe. That's on top of the importation of an extra underclass.

Just because people come from conservative and often despotic countries does not mean they hold those same values as their own.

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Just because people come from conservative and often despotic countries does not mean they hold those same values as their own.

and yet surveys show that to be untrue. It doesn't mean all such people hold with their origin cultures, but read any number of such surveys from the UK and across Europe in Islamic communities(and not just them) and they show far more do than don't compared to the host nations.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

amazing how you are on the internet, with all this information in front of you and you could not find out for yourself.

"1985
In 1978, the Irish Family Planning Act allowed the provision of contraceptives under prescription, and finally in 1985, condoms and spermicides could be sold without prescription"

Doesn't change what I said though. And drop the crap about googling. You weren't clear in your statement as to when.

As someone a few years older than you I can assure you most definitely it was illegal to buy condoms thanks to the church's influence on the law.

Ahh we're talking decades ago, and nothing even remotely recent. Okay then. Might as well be talking about the overwhelming influence of the Church in the 60s/70s.

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

Doesn't stop teachers marching the kids down to the local church to sing in the choir though. It's "music class".
The idea that all the religious teachings are secular now, is not credible.

Enough. I'll be dropping this discussion because there's no point discussing religion with fanatics. Of either side. Whether they're supporting the religion, or seeking to promote everything even remotely negative about it.

Cordell

I don't really get the recourse to history when talking about accepting islam in Europe. Sure, RCC and other christian churches did plenty of bad things, but that's no reason to accept a new religion that also do bad things. We should learn from history, not willingly seek to repeat it.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

and yet surveys show that to be untrue. It doesn't mean all such people hold with their origin cultures, but read any number of such surveys from the UK and across Europe in Islamic communities(and not just them) and they show far more do than don't compared to the host nations.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/policy-ideology-in-european-mass-publics-19812016/EC5CCE297E0EE5CC108EB87C4240E4A9#

While searching for immigrant value studies I came across this study which indicates that European attitudes to immigration has continued to soften over the period of the study data. 1981 to 2016
Which I must say after reading this thread and assuming that majority of anti immigrant views expressed in this thread where indeed the majority opinion has much cheered me up knowing that in fact they are not the majority opinion across Europe.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

"1985
In 1978, the Irish Family Planning Act allowed the provision of contraceptives under prescription, and finally in 1985, condoms and spermicides could be sold without prescription"

Doesn't change what I said though. And drop the crap about googling. You weren't clear in your statement as to when.



Ahh we're talking decades ago, and nothing even remotely recent. Okay then. Might as well be talking about the overwhelming influence of the Church in the 60s/70s.

this is the level of your arrogance, because it did not affect you it dont count eh ?


whether you remember it or not does not alter what I said happened, actually happened, nor does it alter the fact the church had the power to "persuade" the government.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

I don't really get the recourse to history when talking about accepting islam in Europe. Sure, RCC and other christian churches did plenty of bad things, but that's no reason to accept a new religion that also do bad things. We should learn from history, not willingly seek to repeat it.

Should we not also look at how values have changed and liberalised in Ireland over the recent past when we consider if other countries can improve or not.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

this is the level of your arrogance, because it did not affect you it dont count eh ?

Do you really want to start with the snide digs? I've been treating your posts politely, but sure, no problem, I can start dripping sarcasm and bitchiness everywhere, if that's what you want.

whether you remember it or not does not alter what I said happened, actually happened, nor does it alter the fact the church had the power to "persuade" the government.

I didn't say that the Church didn't have the power, or that they didn't influence the government. You're arguing imaginary points, finding rebuttals to points that don't exist.

Step back a few paces, hold back on your urge to be aggressive, and consider what I actually wrote.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Which I must say after reading this thread and assuming that majority of anti immigrant views expressed in this thread where indeed the majority opinion has much cheered me up knowing that in fact they are not the majority opinion across Europe.

The funny thing is that most here aren't anti-immigration. Which has been raised repeatedly, and just as often, ignored when these kind of statements come up. :pac:

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really want to start with the snide digs? I've been treating your posts politely,

Really ?
You tried to be smug with your "it was before my time so might as well been the 60s" snotty reply



it was the late 80s and 90s, not the 60s.

biko

Cordell wrote: »

We should learn from history, not willingly seek to repeat it.

"Don't like strict Christianity? Wait until you try strict Islam!"

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Really ?
You tried to be smug with your "it was before my time so might as well been the 60s" snotty reply

it was the late 80s and 90s, not the 60s.

Deleted User wrote:

"When was this? I've been able to buy condoms all my adult life, and I'm in my 40s"

Deleted User wrote:

"1985
In 1978, the Irish Family Planning Act allowed the provision of contraceptives under prescription, and finally in 1985, condoms and spermicides could be sold without prescription"

Doesn't change what I said though. And drop the crap about googling. You weren't clear in your statement as to when.

You really should stop reading between the lines.. and perhaps deal with what's actually written. No smug suggestion of being before my time...

Now.. I'm going to stop before the mods jump on me, since I know from experience this kind of crap, attracts that kind of attention. Not getting thread banned over you.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

The funny thing is that most here aren't anti-immigration. Which has been raised repeatedly, and just as often, ignored when these kind of statements come up. :pac:

Ah the old I'm not racist but... argument
Reinvented for immigration.

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Should we not also look at how values have changed and liberalised in Ireland over the recent past when we consider if other countries can improve or not.

Yes, maybe it changed and liberalized too much, so let's accept and tolerate this religion that seeks to control every aspect of your life, what you eat, what music is permitted and what pets can you have.
Makes perfect sense.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ah the old I'm not racist but... argument
Reinvented for immigration.

Ahh the old crusader/inquisition mentality.. you're either this or that.. with no capacity for nuance.. and so you'll be burned with every heretic, because everyone who disagrees even remotely is a heretic. :rolleyes:

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, maybe it changed and liberalized too much, so let's accept and tolerate this religion that seeks to control every aspect of your life, what you eat, what music is permitted and what pets can you have.
Makes perfect sense.

Alright then Cordell while you hide in your home in fear of the introduction of sharia law in Ireland :rolleyes: I'll take happy recourse that Europe is not as anti immigrant as the majority of posters to this thread.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I wont argue that Muslim countries have a bad attitude to homosexuality but strangely that is actually a more recent thing and historically while not supported by the Quran was generally tolerated.
I believe the rise in fundamentalist Islam has more to do with the current intolerance in Muslim communities.
]

Indeed, I have pointed out on this thread previously that I lived in a Muslim country were they held pride parades.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh the old crusader/inquisition mentality.. you're either this or that.. with no capacity for nuance.. and so you'll be burned with every heretic, because everyone who disagrees even remotely is a heretic. :rolleyes:

Klaz you cannot be in support of immigration and at the same time against the idea of immigration or believe that immigration only brings negatives.

Those positions are in opposition to each other you cannot hold them both, you can argue about our current immigration practises and suggest ways to improve but you have done nothing of the sort.
So in what way are you supportive of immigration?

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

Might as well be talking about the overwhelming influence of the Church in the 60s/70s.

how is the 90s,,,suddenly the 60s ?


The influence of the church went long after the 60s and 70s

WrenBoy

bubblypop wrote: »

Indeed, I have pointed out on this thread previously that I lived in a Muslim country were they held pride parades.

Really, wow thats interesting, which country ?

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Alright then Cordell while you hide in your home in fear of the introduction of sharia law in Ireland :rolleyes: I'll take happy recourse that Europe is not as anti immigrant as the majority of posters to this thread.

Cheap shot aside, being an immigrant myself I'm not opposing migration in principle - how could I? So maybe you want to address what I've actually said.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

Cheap shot aside, being an immigrant myself I'm not opposing migration in principle - how could I? So maybe you want to address what I've actually said.

What you said was nonsense none of the things you listed will be introduced as laws in Ireland as a result of immigration. So any further discussion has nothing to do with this thread and its topic.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Klaz you cannot be in support of immigration and at the same time against the idea of immigration or believe that immigration only brings negatives.

That's because I'm not

"Post: #5801
I have no issue with refugees as such. I have issue with the practicalities involved, the lack of a successful functioning system capable of providing what they need (and they do need more attention than native students by teachers), and more importantly, the lack of any serious drive to create employment for them."

" Post#5567
Ahh well.. I'd like for us for solve the problems within Irish society first before taking on more problems that we're ill-equipped to deal with. Once those problems have been solved, (rather than deferred on to the next generation), then I'd be perfectly happy with helping those in need. In a pragmatic manner, fully aware of the risks, and capable of actually doing some good. Rather than allowing in people so that they can languish at the bottom of the economy. It just seems so short-sighted and ignorant to me. Fix our own problems with the economy, wealth inequalities, our poor, our wonky support systems, our over-reliance on international companies, etc. But, nah.. sure, it'll be fine."

I could go back more, and provide a range of other posts, but the fact is that I'm not against immigration. I'm against badly planned immigration, with little consideration given to the practicalities involved.

Nuance. Just as you've decided to suggest that posters here are against immigration, regardless of whether they're against illegal/undocumented migrants, bogus Asylum seekers, or whatever. Instead, you've decided that just because posters deny the party line, they're anti-immigration. No room for compromise.

Those positions are in opposition to each other you cannot hold them both, you can argue about our current immigration practises and suggest ways to improve but you have done nothing of the sort.
So in what way are you supportive of immigration?

Once more you're showing your focus on absolutes. Either you're completely for immigration, or completely against it.

Scan the thread. I've posted many times as to what I would like to see happen with regards to immigration, and multiculturalism.