What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

weldoninhio

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Late to the party Jim See below.

Yeah Jim, the answer is to force EU manufacturing workers out of work and let Africa manufacture things.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Now you're reaching, since it wasn't stated that this was so widespread. Is there a crisis going on? nope. Should it be considered a problem worth managing? definitely yes.

And no, people aren't ignoring the vast amount of situations where people of different ethnicity are doing fine together. People are simply paying attention to the fact that in many cases, they're not doing fine together. And rather than pretend that they are.. they ask the questions about why everyone isn't doing fine together.

It amazes me the desire by people to shut down discussions.

Things must have taken a turn for the better on this thread because any time I've been here before, all I've seen is people saying multiculturalism can't work and the solution is to keep different cultures apart or at least minimise the amount of people of a different culture coming to Ireland.

Asking questions about 'Why' is a step in the right direction even if it does seem, as you refer to, some people are still stuck on ignoring where people of different ethnicities are doing fine together.

RobbieTheRobber

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah Jim, the answer is to force EU manufacturing workers out of work and let Africa manufacture things.

Lazy effort.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Things must have taken a turn for the better on this thread because any time I've been here before, all I've seen is people saying multiculturalism can't work and the solution is to keep different cultures apart or at least minimise the amount of people of a different culture coming to Ireland.

Asking questions about 'Why' is a step in the right direction even if it does seem, as you refer to, some people are still stuck on ignoring where people of different ethnicities are doing fine together.

I'd be perfectly happy to discuss why people of different ethnicities are doing fine together, and how we can improve the likelihood of it happening for others.

I suspect most of the posters here would.. as long as they're practical suggestions and don't ask for giving the moon to migrants (which tends to be way those suggestions go).

The problem is while there is a focus by many (myself included) on the negatives or failures of multiculturalism... there's also a blanket belief by those who support it, that just because they know one person who is happy and doing well, that must represent the whole group.

So.. sure.. I'd be game for approaching this topic from a different angle.

Justin Credible Darts

pauly58 wrote: »

It's been a disaster in the UK so why would anyone think it would be any different here.

no...no...no....robbie said things would be different here,


Who cares if there is no evidence nor proof or any data to back up his wild claim.


You must agree with him or else he will think all of us have an issue with africans and muslims. How dare you think for yourself.

Fog Hat

fantaiscool wrote: »

It does amaze me when it can be stated as fact that there is racial tension everywhere in the UK and it's so abundant. These people completely ignore the vast amounts of situations where people of different ethnicity are doing fine together.

Because some immigrants are better than others. I'm not aware of gangs of Chinese men preying on white English girls. That seems to be mostly Pakistanis.

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

no...no...no....robbie said things would be different here,


Who cares if there is no evidence nor proof or any data to back up his wild claim.


You must agree with him or else he will think all of us have an issue with africans and muslims. How dare you think for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIj-6fr2SlI

Bobblehats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVm7NNo82JA

1800_Ladladlad

An Afghani man, with refugee status, was given a suspended sentence for trying to smuggle people into Europe will be jailed after State appeal.

Akbar Jafari (35) who was caught with 14 fake identity cards and was originally given a fully suspended sentence. Jafari claims he was trying to get his family members into Europe. A three-judge court appealed the original sentence and decided his original sentence was unduly lenient, has now been given one year in prison for the offense.

Jafari, told gardaí when he was arrested that he had been in contact with a Nigerian man in Dublin who had agreed to make Jafari 14 fake identities for members of his family
CourtsNewsIreland

Status denied &...


jhjol

Gatling

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

An Afghani man, with refugee status, was given a suspended sentence for trying to smuggle people into Europe will be jailed after a State appeal.

Akbar Jafari (35) who was caught with 14 fake identity cards and was originally given a fully suspended sentence. Jafari claims he was trying to get his family members into Europe. A three-judge court appealed the original sentence and decided his original sentence was unduly lenient, has now been given one year in prison for the offense.

Jafari, told gardaí when he was arrested that he had been in contact with a Nigerian man in Dublin who had agreed to make Jafari 14 fake identities for members of his family
CourtsNewsIreland

Status denied &...


jhjol

We don't deport foreign Criminals or those asylum seekers involved in human trafficking ,it's a very rare occurrence , there was a lad up on a sexual assault case recently again if you can't live by or within our Laws then please return to your own country.
We need a system where foreign Criminals are immediately deported on finishing a sentence

1800_Ladladlad

Gatling wrote: »

We don't deport foreign Criminals or those asylum seekers involved in human trafficking ,it's a very rare occurrence , there was a lad up on a sexual assault case recently again if you can't live by or within our Laws then please return to your own country.
We need a system where foreign Criminals are immediately deported on finishing a sentence

In an ideal world of course that would be legit. In this particular case he should never be able to gain Irish citizenship nor should his family ever be allowed to come to join him in Ireland.

Gatling

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

In an ideal world of course that would be legit. In this particular case he should never be able to gain Irish citizenship nor should his family ever be allowed to come to join him in Ireland.

But in reality his whole family will arrive and they will all be given asylum and citizenship because it's the nice thing to do

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

You integrate into the culture of the country that has allowed you leave your own and move there. I wouldn't rock up in Saudi demanding sausage and rashers as a "Full Irish" is part of my culture.

Moving to another country and speaking your native tongue, socialising only with natives of your own country, and importing "cultural" norms such as women only allowed in a separate room to men and insulting women for wearing makeup etc is not integrating.

And yet thousands of non nationals in the UK speak English, go to schools and work in the UK.

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with people speaking to each other in their native language or socialising with their own countrymen?

I have never been insulted by any nationality for wearing make up, maybe you heard one story & presumed that all people are the same.... There is literally no-one rocking up to Ireland demanding that we do away with fried breakfast, your hysteria is ridiculous

dog_pig

I would really like to be able to support this talented young activist but I find her use of racial epithets very troubling.



I thought this is the exact type of thing that we are trying to get away from? It's hard to take articles like the one below at face value when she uses such racist terms.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/young-people-and-activism-you-can-t-stand-by-and-hope-everything-s-going-to-be-okay-1.4461250

Justin Credible Darts

if she gets racially abused, then she deserves it.
Play with fire you get burned, simple as that

GiftofGab

Deleted User wrote: »

Come on, you can't be this blind to the practicalities of immigration, and hosting different groups in a foreign (foreign to them, and so, without the usual supports) nation.



I shouldn't need a disclaimer here but I can see I need one with you.

First, my opinions are my own. Nothing to do with Wibbs or other posters. They might like my post, but i know they don't agree with everything I say..
Second, this is not about migrants being good or bad individually. These are generalisations. If you can't accept that.. well.. I wonder why you're discussing such a topic at all.

Now.

Immigration groups:

Genuine Asylum seeker. No problem at all. If they meet the requirements, I'd welcome them with open arms.. although I do think the requirements need to re-evaluated from time to time, and not from the perspective of the UN, but from the perspective of the host nation (that's the one receiving them)

Economic migrants. Temporary. (which is important)
Two distinct groups.
Skilled/educated migrants who are meeting established needs within the economy. Totally welcome. They'll work hard, save money, pay their taxes, and move on eventually.
Unskilled/low educated migrants. I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again.. Ireland doesn't have the economy or industry focus to support large numbers of unskilled labor. Other countries such as Germany or France do.. and even they're having issues with employing them consistently.

Economic migrants. Permanent, residency or citizenship.
Skilled/educated migrants who are meeting established needs within the economy. Again, totally welcome.
Unskilled/low educated migrants... cost the state too much to upskill and provide for during the period that they're being upskilled. Results across Europe show a surprisingly low success rate in educating such migrant groups, and while the blame is being directed at the nations involved, simple logic suggests that some must rest with these migrants. A large percentage stay on welfare during their education, and return to it after.

Refugees. That's a tough one because it's been allowed to expand into economic as opposed to purely due to war. I don't believe we should be accepting them, and that they should be heading to neighboring countries, waiting until they can return home to rebuild. Hopefully, leading their country into a new future of enlightenment and peace.

As OEJ said earlier, I do favor the Australian approach to immigration. I don't see the point in importing an underclass of unskilled/lowly educated people into the country, when we already have such groups of our own. Europe has a rather large unemployment rate depending on which countries you examine, and I feel that we would be much better off tapping into that labor market than importing or encouraging groups from countries which are distinctly different than ours culturally.

Which leads into multiculturalism, where I feel Ireland would be better off focusing on improving links to other European countries, rather than bringing in peoples whose values and beliefs are often distinctly different from ours.

The effects of multiculturalism are well documented throughout Europe, which rarely show any friction between European cultural groups, but has shown increasing friction with groups from outside Europe. I'd favor a set limit on immigration from Africa, M.East and S.America. I'm less bothered by Asians, as they tend to avoid any trouble leading to friction, don't demand recognition of their culture, and are usually very successful in finding work.

I'm interested in a pragmatic system being put in place, that provides what migrants need to be a success (education, work placement, etc) but sets a time limit for how long migrants can fail before becoming self-sufficient. I'd favor deportations for any migrant who fails to become self-sufficient within a 10 year period (assuming that education acquisition was part of that). Any children born during that period would leave with the parents should the fail to meet the requirements.

As for multiculturalism and Islam.. Yup.. I have a bone there. Not because I have anything against Islam (or Muslims themselves).. since I've spent time in the M.East and think they're entitled to their cultural choices. However, I do have concerns about Islam in Europe, for example, with what's happening in France, (not just the violence, but the ethnic enclaves, and the colonialism of certain areas by migrant groups).. The issues with Islam and the failure of integration highlight the problems with integration for other racial/cultural groups.

So.. there you go. A decent and detailed answer. We'll see whether you deal with it in good faith, or continue as you have so far.

Spot on.

fantaiscool

dog_pig wrote: »

I would really like to be able to support this talented young activist but I find her use of racial epithets very troubling.



I thought this is the exact type of thing that we are trying to get away from? It's hard to take articles like the one below at face value when she uses such racist terms.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/young-people-and-activism-you-can-t-stand-by-and-hope-everything-s-going-to-be-okay-1.4461250

Stupid tweet by her. Quite offensive. I've seen her quoted here a few times. Did you trawl through her tweets looking for ones like this? Genuinely curious.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

if she gets racially abused, then she deserves it.
Play with fire you get burned, simple as that

In my experience, when you live in a country where the domestic population is of a different race, then there will always be some racism occuring. Either outright direct racism, or a thousand small gestures towards discrimination or showing a power/influence difference. I've seen it happen in both Asia, and Africa... as a white person.

Just as there are benefits to being another race due to certain stereotypes. In China, Arab guys are considered charming and handsome. White women are sexy, especially Russians. Black guys have a reputation for being physically endowed, and Black people in general get a lot of beliefs suggesting that they're naturally "cool", know music well, and are all great dancers. Which feeds into more sexual relationships, certain types of job offers, etc...

And yet, Chinese people are generally quite ignorant, and will display degrees of racism. Often very direct and offensive racism, which they're oblivious in doing. Many of them are, anyway.. others are doing it intentionally.

I've seen the same behavior in Africa, by black people directed towards all foreigners. Both the intentional and oblivious racism.

Now... this "Queen of the Universe" (can't get over the name.. imagine the arrogance of having that on your very public twitter account), is likely looking to find racism being directed towards her. And she will find it.... because racism is generally everywhere, when you are of a different color to someone else. It could be Indian (India) people dissing a Black person, or other Black tribal backgrounds (not necessarily the same kind of Black), or it could be from White people... It'll be there if you want to see it, and want to be outraged.

I see it everyday when I'm living in Asia. It happens. You have a choice. Move away back to your native country where everyone will treat you as nothing special.. or you can take the bad with the good.. and shrug off the irritation that you receive from being exposed to it.

I've lived over 13 years in Asia, and while I love the region to bits, I'm fast reaching the end of my patience with China. In other countries the racism is different. Sometimes more polite/formal (Japan), or full of scams (Thailand/Vietnam), or whatever.. Dunno, how much longer I'll stay in Asia.. but I'm aware its a choice.

Just as this woman is making a choice by being here.. and if she really is that unhappy, then she should leave. Racism is not going to disappear any time soon. Its a very strong part of human nature, and it'll take a few hundred years of indoctrination/conditioning before it's exiled.. if that's even possible, which I have my doubts.

Lastly, nobody deserves to be racially abused. Nobody. However, some people do go looking for trouble and will find it. It doesn't help that Black/African American culture tends to be overly aggressive and in peoples faces. It doesn't try much to fit in... that will generate attention.. and not all attention is positive.

Justin Credible Darts

agree with you, but when you go crying on social media about racism whilst being racist, then you get zero sympathy.

she is only fueling the fire by using racist language and either is too either ignorant to realize what she is doing or is well aware and thinks being black gives her some preferential treatment.

Tea drinker

Gatling wrote: »

But in reality his whole family will arrive and they will all be given asylum and citizenship because it's the nice thing to do

So all the working men and women of every nationality, providing for families, it's taking money off their table. It's not nice at all actually. But meh people are thick and will take it. Afraid to even raise their voice, sooner their kids starve than say anything :pac:

dog_pig

fantaiscool wrote: »

Stupid tweet by her. Quite offensive. I've seen her quoted here a few times. Did you trawl through her tweets looking for ones like this? Genuinely curious.

I'm not sure what led you to that assumption, would you mind elaborating? I find it quite insulting that you would accuse me of something like that.

I came across someone posting a link to an article of hers on Twitter, and the first reply underneath it was a screenshot of that tweet.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/1353662762933768194

Gatling

Tea drinker wrote: »

It's not nice at all actually. But meh people are thick and will take it. Afraid to even raise their voice, sooner their kids starve than say anything :pac:

This is what were dealing any voices that speak up are labelled as being Far right racists .
When you hear a violent rapist who came here as a student and committed a violent sex attack went to trial found guilty but as the judge was getting ready to sentence him it was announced in court he was now seeking asylum ,

In the end be was granted the right to stay here ,the most people deported here in the last few years were students breaking the student visa requirements .
Our system is a one way street ,arrive ,stay commit serious crimes get to stay .
Deporting criminals is moving the problem on to someone else ,but we're not ,we went to send them back to where they are from

In a LeParisien opinion poll, if it comes down to LePen and Macron in the 2nd round again it has him winning at 52% to her 48% (https://www.leparisien.fr/politique/presidentielle-un-sondage-donne-le-pen-presque-a-egalite-avec-macron-en-cas-de-duel-au-second-tour-27-01-2021-8421602.php).

In 2017 he won against her in the 2nd round by 66% to 34%. I think that we are going to see French policies shift much more to the right on areas like immigration if they want to hold off LePen

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

agree with you, but when you go crying on social media about racism whilst being racist, then you get zero sympathy.

she is only fueling the fire by using racist language and either is too either ignorant to realize what she is doing or is well aware and thinks being black gives her some preferential treatment.

Oh, I agree... I don't like this need by some people to get social proof on social media for the negative experiences. I suspect there's some kind of adrenaline rush associated with all the support they get, and so it become addictive, so they keep posting more and more crap to get the thrill.

As for preferential treatment, Black people do, and have for the last 30 years been able to live by the double standard of calling out others on racism while being racist themselves. They've (coming from America) managed to build up a whole host of excuses/reasons for why it's not racism when it comes from them... with a lot of white people buying into it, but it's still racism. Alas, there's a lot of support for reverse discrimination or reverse whatever. It'll continue for a long time yet, since there's no pushback yet against it.

fantaiscool

dog_pig wrote: »

I'm not sure what led you to that assumption, would you mind elaborating? I find it quite insulting that you would accuse me of something like that.

I came across someone posting a link to an article of hers on Twitter, and the first reply underneath it was a screenshot of that tweet.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/1353662762933768194

I was just curious. I have seen that girls tweets posted before that's all.

Whoever that is who screenshot it is not using proper grammar with their Irish by the way. They are literally ripping it from google translate. Pretty weird.

Gatling

fantaiscool wrote: »

I was just curious. I have seen that girls tweets posted before that's all.

Whoever that is who screenshot it is not using proper grammar with their Irish by the way. They are literally ripping it from google translate. Pretty weird.

Bit of an odd statement

ThunbergsAreGo

dog_pig wrote: »

I'm not sure what led you to that assumption, would you mind elaborating? I find it quite insulting that you would accuse me of something like that.

I came across someone posting a link to an article of hers on Twitter, and the first reply underneath it was a screenshot of that tweet.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/1353662762933768194

Eden Joseph is not going to be happy with a younger lady getting in on her turf.....

Such an absolute self indulgence of an article - its not like there is a global pandemic on and we are all locked within 5km of our home or anything

TomTomTim

dog_pig wrote: »

I'm not sure what led you to that assumption, would you mind elaborating? I find it quite insulting that you would accuse me of something like that.

I came across someone posting a link to an article of hers on Twitter, and the first reply underneath it was a screenshot of that tweet.

https://twitter.com/SorchaPollak/status/1353662762933768194

Sorcha Pollak pushing race baiting articles again. I'm shocked.

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

And yet thousands of non nationals in the UK speak English, go to schools and work in the UK.

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with people speaking to each other in their native language or socialising with their own countrymen?

I have never been insulted by any nationality for wearing make up, maybe you heard one story & presumed that all people are the same.... There is literally no-one rocking up to Ireland demanding that we do away with fried breakfast, your hysteria is ridiculous

Sorry I should have been pedantically clear. Only speaking their own language and only socialising with their own countrymen. Making no effort to learn English or integrate whatsoever. Turning their enclave into a mini Pakistan/Somalia/Bangladesh, of which there are many in the UK.

I also never said ALL immigrants were like that, something the left clearly seem to have an issue understanding. You can say the above without meaning ALL immigrants, noticeable in my text by the omission of the word ALL.

One story, here's the French news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A Abused for wearing skirts, makeup, using the local cafe which is men only now.

As for your last sentence , maybe it's for someone else. I never mentioned anyone "rocking up to Ireland demanding that we do away with fried breakfast".

Justin Credible Darts

they will only read they want to read, disseminate everything and focus one one point , ignoring everything else that does not fit the agenda or suit their narrative, then take the minor bit they want and take it out on context, and when they are shown up and their reasoning and logic flawed, the race card is played.

so begs the question are they people deliberately being argumentative, and obtuse, seeking attention or pretending to be pc

or re they really thick ?

either way, its not a good thing