What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TomTomTim

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Can I request that people posting newspaper articles to post the article here or on Imgur etc? With very bad articles we really shouldn't be giving them traffic.

Archiving sites are probably the best option for something like this. I know several places that don't allow any links for MSM unless archived.

Mike Murdock

section4 wrote: »

assistant professor, sounds like a guy thats been studying the subject for 30 years, thats what i would imagine a professor to be, alsas

this guy was working in KFC in Letterkenny from 2010-2014, then in the AIB from 2014-2017, and now he is an assistant professor and he talking about racism , these people dont seem to understand this is not the US or the UK we have had a bad time ourselves and many had to emigrate from 2010 but he didnt

Surely his hard work and success to rise to the prominent position that he has would highlight that Ireland is not a systemically racist country.

You just need to put the work in and stop blaming imaginary enemies everywhere.

weldoninhio

fantaiscool wrote: »

Struggling to understand how you're an expert on the racism black people face despite never experiencing it yourself.

My last two long term girlfriends were black and African, they were Malawi, and didn't see racism everywhere.

Amazingly, they also noticed that black people with roots in a particular African country were the one's always screaming racism and both actively disliked them as they "ruin it for the rest of Africans". They were probably racist, eh?

biko

Scoondal wrote: »

Huh ? Who is from Africa ?

Elon and Charlize.

biko

weldoninhio wrote: »

My last two long term girlfriends were black and African, they were Malawi, and didn't see racism everywhere.

Amazingly, they also noticed that black people with roots in a particular African country were the one's always screaming racism and both actively disliked them as they "ruin it for the rest of Africans". They were probably racist, eh?

Nigerians are quite unpopular also in South Africa.
Many have returned home to Nigeria.

At least 10 people, including two foreigners, were killed in days of violence that erupted after mobs razed and vandalized several businesses and stores owned by immigrants. The anti-foreigner attacks sparked diplomatic protests from several African governments, while some Nigerian citizens retaliated by looting South African-owned brands.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/13/africa/nigerians-return-from-south-africa-xenopbobic-attacks-intl/index.html

The general feelings on the streets of South Africa toward foreigners is a mixture of antagonism and stereotypes. Since I moved to the country in February, I have seen and heard both direct and indirect resentment and hatred toward foreigners. They are currently driving a new narrative “Put South Africa First.”

The racist rainbow nation ruled by ANC.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/24/south-africa-anti-foreigner-nigerian-xenophobia/

WrenBoy

fantaiscool wrote: »

Not really addressing my point. I don't see how a white person can be an expert on the racism black people face when he or she has not got any experience of living as a black person.

If you have a problem with them complaining and pointing out racism and injustice and say they should just get on with it and accept it then i can understand your position. More or less saying get out of the country instead of complain about what you perceive as injustice. I wouldn't agree with that position of course but I'd understand and see the logic - you might just not care about the racism they face and want them to shut up because you're sick of hearing about it. But if you're presenting yourself as an authority on the racism they face despite having no experience at all, then I can't really see the logic there myself.

Ok, thats whitey told to shut up on racism, continuing on your point what topics are black peoples opinion worth nothing on ??

paw patrol

fantaiscool wrote: »

Not really addressing my point. I don't see how a white person can be an expert on the racism black people face when he or she has not got any experience of living as a black person.

on the surface you make a reasonable point but it's flawed when you think about it. It would mean just accepting anything that is said to you thus you become a doormat.
I certainly haven't a clue about how society in America is structured and works.

But i do know Ireland as I've lived here all my life. When somebody says to me it's sh1t I can use my judgement to see if it is reasonable.

For the common complaints like the institutional racism
that is all the rage , it's not. Just because you didn't get wait you want or the outcome wasn't to your liking doesn't mean it was racism.

There are many aspects to irish society that aren't great , unless you are happy to sit in the welfare class then you generally need to work hard and deal with disappointment.

One thing that grates with me is a regular moan from these social activists who cry racism is they want representation at the top of the ladder in all aspects of society.
That takes hard work and time for everybody Irish and non-irish and they completely ignore the fact that nearly all blacks are here only 1 generation yet somehow a seat at the table is demanded?
See Leos comments on civil service being too white , 1 generation in with most of the 2nd generation being under 30 and he (and the people who prompted the question) want full representation in the civil service. fcukin hell.

newhouse87

Just wondering in what year since the republic was found did we start to think about making our institutions racist for the black people that would eventually come along, took alot of foresight from the earlier generations to plan the institutional racism in advance.

fantaiscool

fantaiscool wrote: »

Struggling to understand how you're an expert on the racism black people face despite never experiencing it yourself.

why assume that he's never experienced racism himself? As I said previously, racism is quite widespread throughout the world. He could easily have been on the receiving end of racism by Black or Asian people.

The part I struggle to understand is how you equalise racism towards Black people. Sure, African Americans experience serious racism in the US, due to the American culture.. but what about Black people from other countries? Do they experience the same amount and type of racism that AA do?

Have Black people been elevated to the same position of Jews, wit all the associated automatic sympathy, and the assumption that they've all been discriminated against?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

why assume that he's never experienced racism himself? As I said previously, racism is quite widespread throughout the world. He could easily have been on the receiving end of racism by Black or Asian people.

The part I struggle to understand is how you equalise racism towards Black people. Sure, African Americans experience serious racism in the US, due to the American culture.. but what about Black people from other countries? Do they experience the same amount and type of racism that AA do?

Have Black people been elevated to the same position of Jews, wit all the associated automatic sympathy, and the assumption that they've all been discriminated against?

'white privilige' is a synonym for white people cant experience racism.

Fact is, everybody experiences discrimination of some sort.
But not all discrimination (bigotry or unequal treatment) is motivated by racism.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

why assume that he's never experienced racism himself? As I said previously, racism is quite widespread throughout the world. He could easily have been on the receiving end of racism by Black or Asian people.

The part I struggle to understand is how you equalise racism towards Black people. Sure, African Americans experience serious racism in the US, due to the American culture.. but what about Black people from other countries? Do they experience the same amount and type of racism that AA do?

Have Black people been elevated to the same position of Jews, wit all the associated automatic sympathy, and the assumption that they've all been discriminated against?

If this was the case we'd have far more examples of racism. It's a nation of 150 million people, yet I rarely see examples of genuine racism toward blacks. To add to that, there's been far more fake hate crimes than real ones, often committed by African Americans, something they shouldn't have to do if there was as much racism as you claim. People like you are very quick to throw America under the bus just to look better in comparison, but find it deeply unfair to many Americans to do so. I'm sure there is Americans who hates African Americans, but I'd be honestly surprised if it was more than 5% of them. On the other hand, the amount of African Americans who are racist toward European Americans, is likely a far higher number than 5%.

fantaiscool

weldoninhio wrote: »

My last two long term girlfriends were black and African, they were Malawi, and didn't see racism everywhere.

Amazingly, they also noticed that black people with roots in a particular African country were the one's always screaming racism and both actively disliked them as they "ruin it for the rest of Africans". They were probably racist, eh?

I can give you anecdotal examples of black people I've known who experienced tons of racism I didn't even realize was possible on a daily basis. So having two Malawi girlfriends (which I have to say I doubt) gives you the confidence to speak with authority on the racism black people face? Ok, fair enough.

newhouse87

fantaiscool wrote: »

I can give you anecdotal examples of black people I've known who experienced tons of racism I didn't even realize was possible on a daily basis. So having two Malawi girlfriends (which I have to say I doubt) gives you the confidence to speak with authority on the racism black people face? Ok, fair enough.

What % of irish people would you say are racist?

fantaiscool

paw patrol wrote: »

on the surface you make a reasonable point but it's flawed when you think about it. It would mean just accepting anything that is said to you thus you become a doormat.
I certainly haven't a clue about how society in America is structured and works.

But i do know Ireland as I've lived here all my life. When somebody says to me it's sh1t I can use my judgement to see if it is reasonable.

For the common complaints like the institutional racism
that is all the rage , it's not. Just because you didn't get wait you want or the outcome wasn't to your liking doesn't mean it was racism.

There are many aspects to irish society that aren't great , unless you are happy to sit in the welfare class then you generally need to work hard and deal with disappointment.

One thing that grates with me is a regular moan from these social activists who cry racism is they want representation at the top of the ladder in all aspects of society.
That takes hard work and time for everybody Irish and non-irish and they completely ignore the fact that nearly all blacks are here only 1 generation yet somehow a seat at the table is demanded?
See Leos comments on civil service being too white , 1 generation in with most of the 2nd generation being under 30 and he (and the people who prompted the question) want full presentation in the civil service. fcukin hell.

I think my feeling on it is I wouldn't be an authority on the racism a person of a minority group faces. I've always been told a couple of horror stories by any of them that I've befriended enough to have conversations like that with. I know Ireland from my own perspective, not from theirs.

If people just flat out said they are not authorities on the racism these people face and they don't care about it and think they should shut up and accept it, I would understand their view, although I wouldn't disagree with it. To be frank I suspect that's the way a lot of people feel but are too cowardly to say it outright and so they become an authority on the discrimination these people face, downplay it and say that they should get over it. My only issue is that it's fairly transparent. I'd really appreciate it if people would just be frank.

Justin Credible Darts

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

'white privilige' is a synonym for white people cant experience racism.

Fact is, everybody experiences discrimination of some sort.
But not all discrimination (bigotry or unequal treatment) is motivated by racism.

There is no such thing as white privilege.



Its a myth, a made up term by pc mongers to brainwash and hoodwink people into think blacks and minorities are some how suffering because I and others were born white.


Black privilege is more of a reality. If I apply for a job and fail to get it, my feelings or skin color is not taken into consideration, no one worries if my rejection will be viewed as racist, no one cares if I might feeling robbed, offended or whatever the woke terminology is these days.




Some Jobs have to hire people because they are minorities, and in effect it greatens their chances of being employed, ergo giving them an advantage.


I would clearly love to know just one single way , I being born White has given me some "privilege", I had to work hard for what I have, I was never given anything for free for being white, in fact I know white people who because they are white and not black or asian, forced to wait longer on housing lists , as minorities got "privilege" and got housing before them, got jobs before them, more state handouts before them.


I am not treated with kids gloves, no one gives a flying fuq about my rights cos I am white. I cannot play a race card, or go in to victim mode when ever I dont get what I want.

I am all for equality, but we are at the stage where being a minority is actually a bonus not a hindrance or a problem.


Still, I am sure some pc brainwashed person will be along to tell me how some white person in the UK 200 years ago keeping slaves was my fault, or because old white yanks who run fortune 500 companies and dominate business being white is also my fault, and a working class man like myself has some privilege

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

If this was the case we'd have far more examples of racism. It's a nation of 150 million people, yet I rarely see examples of genuine racism toward blacks.

Then you haven't been looking very much, since systematic racism is a reality within US culture. Sure, I feel that African American culture encourages some of that racism, but it's there nonetheless.

To add to that, there's been far more fake hate crimes than real ones, often committed by African Americans, something they shouldn't have to do if there was as much racism as you claim.

I'm sure you have some proof of that?

People like you are very quick to throw America under the bus just to look better in comparison, but find it deeply unfair to many Americans to do so.

People like me? haha... Nah. I'm pretty unique. However, in terms of my opinions, I pay attention to history, and throughout American history, it's been a stratified society, based primarily around wealth, but race plays into it big time. It's not a judgment of "Americans" because society (and how it's laws are applied) tends to evolve regardless of how individuals feel about the topic.

I'm sure there is Americans who hates African Americans, but I'd be honestly surprised if it was more than 5% of them. On the other hand, the amount of African Americans who are racist toward European Americans, is likely a far higher number than 5%.

And I'd agree.. although hate isn't the word I'd use. Contempt or distrust along racial lines is probably more accurate.

Effects

section4 wrote: »

assistant professor, sounds like a guy thats been studying the subject for 30 years, thats what i would imagine a professor to be, alsas

this guy was working in KFC in Letterkenny from 2010-2014, then in the AIB from 2014-2017, and now he is an assistant professor and he talking about racism , these people dont seem to understand this is not the US or the UK we have had a bad time ourselves and many had to emigrate from 2010 but he didnt

What has the fact he didn’t have to emigrate got to do with anything?
Assistant professor and professor are two different roles. You seemed, to me, to be lumping them together somewhat.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

, in fact I know white people who because they are white and not black or asian, forced to wait longer on housing lists , as minorities got "privilege" and got housing before them, got jobs before them, more state handouts before them.

This is absolute rubbish.
Some victim complex you have!

weldoninhio

fantaiscool wrote: »

I can give you anecdotal examples of black people I've known who experienced tons of racism I didn't even realize was possible on a daily basis. So having two Malawi girlfriends (which I have to say I doubt) gives you the confidence to speak with authority on the racism black people face? Ok, fair enough.

19-12-2018, 15:59 #88
weldoninhio
Registered User
"I've a black girlfriend and never encountered anything bad. She is from Malawi and is over here doing her Masters. We've only been going out since late May/early June but never noticed anything."

Yeah, I posted about one of them 2 years ago just in case I needed an example in 2021. :rolleyes:

I also never spoke "with authority on the racism black people face". I stated that one group of black people see racism everywhere, as also pointed out by other Africans.

mynamejeff

biko wrote: »

The racist rainbow nation ruled by ANC.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/24/south-africa-anti-foreigner-nigerian-xenophobia/

Electing a terrorist organisation as the government of country didn't work out eh ? colour me surprised

although it is a warning to us with regard to the shinners and their lust for power and money

mynamejeff

Effects wrote: »

What has the fact he didn’t have to emigrate got to do with anything?
Assistant professor and professor are two different roles. You seemed, to me, to be lumping them together somewhat.

I think the point is that his family migrated here in the first place , unless Otukoya is a native Donegal name

he seems to go by Richard Bashir Otukoya some times unless its time to beat the racism drum

still an impressive CV

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

This is absolute rubbish.
Some victim complex you have!

show me one single example ever where I might have had this mythical white privilege.


And dont give me the bull that minorities and immigrants dont jump the que in terms of housing lists.


name just one thing me being white has got me in this country....just one thing. something I could not have got anyway were i born black in this country.



astound me with your so called intelligence

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

This is absolute rubbish.
Some victim complex you have!

Actually, it makes logical sense. If housing, services and other benefits (education, supports etc) are limited and finite, then anyone who becomes a priority, is gaining ahead of other people. Which is a sense of privilege, especially when it's assigned due to a stat that can't be acquired.. such as race. Which is why Travellers are both a privileged and disadvantaged group at the same time..

Minorities, gain benefits due to being minorities. The majority, by being part of that majority, are disadvantaged due to the policies that place greater importance on helping other groups ahead of that majority.

The housing lists have Irish people on them, and so, when minorities gain that housing, there is an Irish person out there somewhere, losing out (since without that minority being there, the housing would go to another or that Irish person)

It's pretty simple logic.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

show me one single example ever where I might have had this mythical white privilege.


And dont give me the bull that minorities and immigrants dont jump the que in terms of housing lists.


name just one thing me being white has got me in this country....just one thing. something I could not have got anyway were i born black in this country.



astound me with your so called intelligence

well bubblypop......have you found a single example yet ?

fantaiscool

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

well bubblypop......have you found a single example yet ?

I'm sure he has many. It's fairly obvious and a conversation that's been had many a time. If you do a search you'll see some examples I posted myself.

Justin Credible Darts

maybe you can astound me with your your wisdom and enlighten me how the color of my skin has awarded me privilege in my life.

Show me t5hese things i was given for being white

Balcurris

Asylum seekers have thrashed and set fire to the Napier barracks in Folkestone. Lovely way of thanking the British taxpayers for paying for putting them up.

Justin Credible Darts

Balcurris wrote: »

Asylum seekers have thrashed and set fire to the Napier barracks in Folkestone. Lovely way of thanking the British taxpayers for paying for putting them up.

better give them new council houses instead, sod all the actual british people waiting on the lists for years.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

show me one single example ever where I might have had this mythical white privilege.


And dont give me the bull that minorities and immigrants dont jump the que in terms of housing lists.


name just one thing me being white has got me in this country....just one thing. something I could not have got anyway were i born black in this country.



astound me with your so called intelligence

Don't be getting you're knickers in a twist about 'white privilege' , do you not believe that you have advantages being born in Ireland that someone born in a third world country don't have?
I know I do, and I didn't grow up in any kind of privileged family, but I appreciate what I had!

Sorry, but minorities don't jump the queue just because they are minorities. That's rubbish.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

well bubblypop......have you found a single example yet ?

Jaysis!
Give me a chance, I'm working nights and only went to bed at 1pm