What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

mynamejeff

bubblypop wrote: »

Don't be getting you're knickers in a twist about 'white privilege' , do you not believe that you have advantages being born in Ireland that someone born in a third world country don't have?
I know I do, and I didn't grow up in any kind of privileged family, but I appreciate what I had!

Sorry, but minorities don't jump the queue just because they are minorities. That's rubbish.

won't that be National privilege?

like being entitled to a Irish passport ? same as a Nigerian being entitled to a Nigerian one ?

fair enough one might get you around Europe handier but that's got nothing to do with race

Quantum Baloney

We are a right shower in many respects, but I'm fairly confident that 'institution racism' in Ireland is vanishingly small. Still, it's important to listen to people's experiences and evaluate them with an open mind.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

Don't be getting you're knickers in a twist about 'white privilege' , do you not believe that you have advantages being born in Ireland that someone born in a third world country don't have?
I know I do, and I didn't grow up in any kind of privileged family, but I appreciate what I had!

Sorry, but minorities don't jump the queue just because they are minorities. That's rubbish.

Allow me educate you then .

Being white is not the same as being Irish, or are you unable to grasp this ?


Being Irish does not mean you are automatically white.
An Irish born black person has an advantage over an African, that is not white privilege, or are you still not grasping it.


What advantage have I over an Irish born black person for example ?

Show me this privilege I get based solely on my skin color.


you cannot because it does not exist.

Justin Credible Darts

mynamejeff wrote: »

won't that be National privilege?

like being entitled to a Irish passport ? same as a Nigerian being entitled to a Nigerian one ?

fair enough one might get you around Europe handier but that's got nothing to do with race

spot on.


we have an advantage by our nation of birth, but not because of skin color.
Bubblypop is unable to grasp the difference.


he is one of those people who like to bandy about nonsense terms like white privilege, which is as ridiculous as white guilt

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Allow me educate you then .

Being white is not the same as being Irish, or are you unable to grasp this ?


Being Irish does not mean you are automatically white.
An Irish born black person has an advantage over an African, that is not white privilege, or are you still not grasping it.


What advantage have I over an Irish born black person for example ?

Show me this privilege I get based solely on my skin color.


you cannot because it does not exist.

I couldn't care less about white privilege or the people that talk about it.
You come across as so aggressive, be careful with your blood pressure.

Now, if you go back & read it again, I said it's rubbish that people get houses or state aid faster than Irish people, just because they are minorities. It is not true.

Yamanoto

bubblypop wrote: »

Sorry, but minorities don't jump the queue just because they are minorities. That's rubbish.

That infamous chap in his luxury Rathgar pad (sans gym access) had many people scratching their heads as to how he managed to secure housing in such a short space of time

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-tenants-in-rathgar-complex-excluded-from-certain-facilities-1.4415042

weldoninhio

bubblypop wrote: »

Don't be getting you're knickers in a twist about 'white privilege' , do you not believe that you have advantages being born in Ireland that someone born in a third world country don't have?
I know I do, and I didn't grow up in any kind of privileged family, but I appreciate what I had!

Sorry, but minorities don't jump the queue just because they are minorities. That's rubbish.

Do you think no black people are born in Ireland?

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

Now, if you go back & read it again, I said it's rubbish that people get houses or state aid faster than Irish people, just because they are minorities. It is not true.

McEntee hasn't committed yet.
Asylum seekers would be given own-door accommodation after three months under 'ambitious' direct provision proposal

Catherine Day, who led the group, said its recommendations had already prompted “quite a lot of concern” in the Department of Housing over how accommodation would be found during a housing crisis.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/asylum-seekers-would-be-given-own-door-accommodation-after-three-months-under-ambitious-direct-provision-proposal-39651296.html

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Do you think no black people are born in Ireland?

Considering I have some in my family, no.

Yamanoto

Yamanoto wrote: »

That infamous chap in his luxury Rathgar pad (sans gym access) had many people scratching their heads as to how he managed to secure housing in such a short space of time

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/social-tenants-in-rathgar-complex-excluded-from-certain-facilities-1.4415042

How short a time?
Does it say how long he was waiting?.

Edit, clearly you just made that up.

biko

biko wrote: »

McEntee hasn't committed yet.
Asylum seekers would be given own-door accommodation after three months under 'ambitious' direct provision proposal

Catherine Day, who led the group, said its recommendations had already prompted “quite a lot of concern” in the Department of Housing over how accommodation would be found during a housing crisis.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/asylum-seekers-would-be-given-own-door-accommodation-after-three-months-under-ambitious-direct-provision-proposal-39651296.html

There are plenty of empty homes all over the country

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

There are plenty of empty homes all over the country

The plan is:

After three months, asylum seekers would be moved to own-door temporary accommodation spread across the country which councils would be legally bound to provide, through ring-fenced funding.

This won't work. The funding will stop after a year or two and the local council will be left holding the bag for economic migrants from safe countries that will stay on welfare for the foreseeable future.

The number of people seeking asylum in the State increased by more than one third in the first six months of 2019 when compared to 2018, a period when numbers reached a 10-year high.

The Department of Justice said it was concerned that many of those making claims for asylum in the State were originating from places classified as “safe countries”.

The Reception and Integration Agency, which oversees accommodation for asylum seekers, has described the use of temporary centres as “a regrettable but necessary feature”, but warned that the system was under “immense strain”.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/concern-over-rise-in-people-seeking-asylum-from-safe-countries-1.3986377

I would be completely of the view that asylum seekers claims should be dealt with within 6-8 weeks of their arrival.
For such a short time, they should still be accommodated in direct provision or hotels even.
But they need to get the system working properly first. I don think they should leave people for years in direct provision, but if they sorted out the system, that would not be an issue.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

I couldn't care less about white privilege or the people that talk about it.
You come across as so aggressive, be careful with your blood pressure.

Now, if you go back & read it again, I said it's rubbish that people get houses or state aid faster than Irish people, just because they are minorities. It is not true.

I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my blood pressure, but if you need to tell yourself that in order to placate yourself go right ahead,


I do not believe in white privilege, not now , not ever. Its a myth perpetuated by brainwashed people. Nor will I ever suffer from such ridiculous notions of white guilt either.


I will put things simply so you should have no problem understanding them.
You, I and everyone on this planet had no say in what color., sex, creed, etc we were born. That was the hand we were dealt.

Things like slavery were atrocious, but I am not responsible for it, so why should i feel guilty ? I played no part in it, my parents or their parent or any ancestor of mine played no part in it as we are Irish and in fact we were more likely to have been captured and kept as slaves than the Irish were at keeping them.


But these historical facts are usually swept under the carpet. As is the fact the slave trade was started, and predominantly run by black people.
I will not feel guilty for anything I have not done or played any part in.
Nor will I accept I have a privilege when everything I own and earned was got through hard work and graft and not because I was white.


I refuse to be ever value the opinion of any person who spouts terms like white guilt and white privilege, as they are clearly ignorant.

I agree with all your points, no need to persuade me.

Gatling

During the " Crash " there was increase over previous years in new arrivals claiming asylum,
The economy was broke ,mass unemployment and homelessness and yet they arrived in the there droves

Kivaro

Gatling wrote: »

During the " Crash " there was increase over previous years in new arrivals claiming asylum,
The economy was broke ,mass unemployment and homelessness and yet they arrived in the there droves

Never underestimate a heavily subsidised social housing programme and very attractive lifetime welfare benefits to all who want to come to our fair Isle.

Gatling

Kivaro wrote: »

Never underestimate a heavily subsidised social housing programme and very attractive lifetime welfare benefits to all who want to come to our fair Isle.

But based off this idea of housing in 3 months , we have around 6000 in direct provision ,if we house 6000 in three months ,we would like have to house that many every three months ,we would be looking at needing 24,000 homes every year just for asylum seekers .
That's like all the current housing stock being built and then some , before we get to our own housing list and families looking to buy homes .

It cannot work or happen

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

But based off this idea of housing in 3 months , we have around 6000 in direct provision ,if we house 6000 in three months ,we would like have to house that many every three months ,we would be looking at needing 24,000 homes every year just for asylum seekers .
That's like all the current housing stock being built and then some , before we get to our own housing list and families looking to buy homes .

It cannot work or happen

We don't take 24000 asylum seekers a year......

Gatling

bubblypop wrote: »

We don't take 24000 asylum seekers a year......

If we house the current 6000 and it gets out were housing asylum seekers in three months ,we will get that number and likely more ,

One year we took 8-10,000 in 12 months ,04 I think

fantaiscool

section4 wrote: »

assistant professor, sounds like a guy thats been studying the subject for 30 years, thats what i would imagine a professor to be, alsas

this guy was working in KFC in Letterkenny from 2010-2014, then in the AIB from 2014-2017, and now he is an assistant professor and he talking about racism , these people dont seem to understand this is not the US or the UK we have had a bad time ourselves and many had to emigrate from 2010 but he didnt

I don't see why it would be strange that people work while they obtain degrees and master degrees.

Yamanoto

bubblypop wrote: »

How short a time?
Does it say how long he was waiting?.

Edit, clearly you just made that up.

How so?

Gatling

A former military base in the UK suffered a fire earlier today and other damage was caused by asylum seekers demanding moves else where , previously 120 tested positive for covid ,the asylum seekers want to be me to secure covid free accommodation ,no such place currently exists in the world

https://news.sky.com/story/fire-breaks-out-at-former-army-barracks-housing-asylum-seekers-in-kent-12202560

Balcurris

Simon Coveney in Turkey today cosying up to Erdogan and promising to endorse their entry into the EU and take migrants.

They whinge about the "far right" in Ireland and then go and pull a stunt like this. Pathetic.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I do not believe in white privilege, not now , not ever. Its a myth perpetuated by brainwashed people. Nor will I ever suffer from such ridiculous notions of white guilt either.

Well, I call BS on white privilege anyway because of simple economics and history.

If you look at Ireland throughout the 50s-70s, it was poor. Very poor. And then, the economy picked up, and joining the EEC sealed the deal, with general prosperity coming in. A few ups and downs, but over time, this country and the standard of living for the majority is pretty damn good. Expensive but definitely good.

Then look at African countries. In many cases, they got independence just 20 years after we did (in some cases earlier), but received far more in development aid since then. Not just from one organisation like the EU, but many countries throughout the world.

Then we have the US, and while systematic racism is definitely an issue, there are quite a few success stories out there of educated, and relatively wealthy black families. In many cases, they started out from the same position as those who remained poor, but were more successful.

The whole idea of white privilege is a cop out. A propaganda piece to portray Black people as being victims. I have never heard a normal Asian person talk about White privilege. Not once, except to laugh at the concept.. why? Because they understand that those who work hard, get a little lucky, and persevere are the ones who succeed. Those who give up, slide to the bottom.

I put myself through college. Pretty much past the age of 16 I've paid for everything in my life (excepting room/board from my parents), and yet, I'm privileged? Meh. It's the go-to claim for those who want to find excuses for their own failures, and those of others, because by finding excuses for others, they make themselves feel better about their own lives.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

We don't take 24000 asylum seekers a year......

No, we don't but we have 30k undocumented migrants who, if made legal, may need financial supports and housing provided to them. In addition to the various low income migrants who come in each year. 24k in one year is too high a number, but even 24k within 5 years (which is more likely) is still a massive drain on the economy, should they need supports.

mcgragger

Multiculturalism doesn't work.
It never will. Just look at the cluster**** in Germany UK and USA. Ireland hurtling in the same direction.

Its a class issue as much as a skin colour issue too.

mcgragger

mcgragger wrote: »

Multiculturalism doesn't work.
It never will..

I disagree. I think it can work. If handled properly from the beginning.

A clear and strong host culture that remains dominant.

Zero expectation of other cultural groups gaining a foothold beyond sharing festivals (like the Chinese New Year, or Paddys Day), and food. No supports for minorities based on race or nationality. No Enclaves of over 60 people within a 10 mile radius of each other. A probation period for all migrants seeking residency or citizenship whereby they must prove to be completely financially independent, and likely to be able to support themselves in the future. Those who can't get deported. No appeals. The probation period is the grace time for them to prove that they're capable of living in a first world nation. And most importantly, regular research into the living standards, state of living, and problems that migrants experience, all feeding into creating a system that is fit-for-purpose in educating, and preparing them for employment in the shortest period of time possible.

With that, I suspect we'd see a greater degree of success from multiculturalism... but there's always going to be some problems from many cultures living near each other. The trick, I think, is ensuring that everyone is working, and earning enough to have a reasonably good standard of living. Multiculturalism has failed because too many low skilled/low educated migrants have been allowed in, and end up at the bottom, with little chance of social mobility. The expectation is then that they can only succeed through supports from the government, waiting for their children to succeed where they couldn't.. but that's a rather long time to wait, for both the parents, and the State.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

I'm not saying 24000 would ,I based the figure off if we house the people currently in dp that would free up space for a similar figure which would then have to be housed in 3 months ,
There has been several years where the figure topped 10k we could be back with a free for all situation with women arriving in labor

Oh, I understand your pov, and I agree. If we were to house all the current population of migrants needing/wanting aid, then every migrant worldwide would know within hours that Ireland is the place to go to.

It wouldn't matter if most were rejected, considering the lack of deportations... many would manage to stay long enough to have children here, which doubles the chance of staying.

Burkie1203

I see Hazel Chu is crying in the media today about not feeling safe in her own city.

She didn't seem too worried about people's safety a month ago