What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

It sounds like the Irish Refugee Council have already seen the government white paper on direct provision if they are seeking the bridge the gap between the Day report and the white paper and calling it not radical enough

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0127/1192274-direct-provision/

kildare lad

listermint wrote: »

Right wing isn't a good thing lad. You can hold conservative views (good) but when they drift into right wing they're not good.

Understand the difference.

The middle ground is lost and that seems to make folks giddy. Does it make you giddy...

Giddy??? Right wing views come about by the failure of left wing politicians to listen to the people .look at Labour wanting to bring in the birthright citizenship again . 80 % of people voted against it back in 2004, it was used by migrant welfare bums to get a free ride in this country. We're already seeing the failure of this policy across Dublin and it'll only get worse in the future.

The right wing was dead in europe until politicians decided to open the floodgates to migrants . I hold left wing views regarding most things except unrestricted immigration. I've no problem with certain immigration but this rubbish of housing everyone that gets here needs to be scrapped. The problem with left wing is that it cares more for people who contribute nothing to society but want everything from it. They

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36130006

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

It sounds like the Irish Refugee Council have already seen the government white paper on direct provision if they are seeking the bridge the gap between the Day report and the white paper and calling it not radical enough

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0127/1192274-direct-provision/

What's the governmental justification for allowing these people have a hand in policy? You'd think that these groups where elected with the way they behave.

ThunbergsAreGo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I see Hazel Chu is crying in the media today about not feeling safe in her own city.

She didn't seem too worried about people's safety a month ago

There are people getting stabbed in her own city. As Lord Mayor I would rather she focused on this.

ThunbergsAreGo

TomTomTim wrote: »

What's the governmental justification for allowing these people have a hand in policy? You'd think that these groups where elected with the way they behave.

It seems now in Ireland we should just let NGOs write policy, cut out the middle man of the Government.

This own key accommodation thing is ridiculous, and reading the comment under that report on Twitter (which they promoted, great use of funds), people are starting to get unhappy about it.

kildare lad

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

There are people getting stabbed in her own city. As Lord Mayor I would rather she focused on this.

Listening to some politicians after the incident in clonee in which george lost his life ,you'd think knifes weren't dangerous at all . Knifes are just as dangerous as guns and people carrying and using them should be treated the same by the Garda and the court system . There was a case recently where a drug dealer knifed a guy 5 times over a debt. He recorded himself doing it and the video was doing the rounds on whatsapp at the time and it was brutal to watch . He had 45 previous convictions and the judge decided to give him 3 years. Therein lies the problem . I know a fella that killed someone with a knife and done 5 years in jail . Judges are on another planet when it comes to handing out sentences here

weldoninhio

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

There are people getting stabbed in her own city. As Lord Mayor I would rather she focused on this.

Ah no, for that she’ll claim it’s a ceremonial role and she has no role to play in crime etc. It’s only a big role when she wants attention.

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

Giddy??? Right wing views come about by the failure of left wing politicians to listen to the people .look at Labour wanting to bring in the birthright citizenship again . 80 % of people voted against it back in 2004, it was used by migrant welfare bums to get a free ride in this country. We're already seeing the failure of this policy across Dublin and it'll only get worse in the future.

The right wing was dead in europe until politicians decided to open the floodgates to migrants . I hold left wing views regarding most things except unrestricted immigration. I've no problem with certain immigration but this rubbish of housing everyone that gets here needs to be scrapped. The problem with left wing is that it cares more for people who contribute nothing to society but want everything from it. They

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36130006

Kinda agree, but there's more to it, and it rests with the way western societies have evolved.

The first part is the attitude that suggests if it's happening in the US then it must be happening throughout every other western country. So, the US is held up as representative, and yet, everyone knows the US takes everything to extremes.

The second part is linked to taking things to extremes, and not knowing when to stop.

By the 90's, gender equality was pretty much guaranteed. The laws in place to protect women in the workplace, had the effect of feeding into society, and combined with media/education, feminism had achieved equality for mainstream society. There were smaller issues still worth dealing with, but for the most part we had reached equality. Then, it all started to fade away as the demands for further changes, the need for recognition for women, and further protections. Now, equality is dead, and we're pretty imbalanced as a society in favoring women over men.

Then, we had racial issues. WW2 and Hitler pretty much guaranteed the European attitude towards racism, and bigots. Every European nation taught it's society to be aware of racism, and not to tolerate it. Germans were hit with the added guilt trip to keep them down, and all was well in Europe. Mostly. Some minor issues with racism but it wasn't widespread, and society was marching proudly towards embracing everyone regardless of their gender, race, or sexual orientation. But that wasn't enough. More recognition was needed.. as were more protections, as were more benefits to help others, while also show how magnanimous European were.

And the same with the far right. With the exception of a few localised parties, the far right was dead in Europe. They were contaminated with the evils of genocide, and nobody wanted anything to do with them. And now? I know quite a few conservative people who have embraced the far right. Not because they're racists, or want to hurt anyone but because they feel alienated in their own countries, and marginalized... along with a degree of bitterness that, as middle class, they're expected to whore out for everyone "needy".

Western society has lost the ability to accept that we're in a good place. Everything needs to be "tweaked" more. Nothing is completely fair so, we need to make further changes (with good intentions) but ultimately make the whole system even more unfair.

The far right still aren't that much of a concern. They're drawing a lot of support from the Middle who feel disenfranchised, but who will stop supporting them, should things become too extreme. However, as time goes by, the propaganda and social conditioning will continue, and people will be 'converted' to being actual supporters of the far right.

Part of the blame rests with the Left in western politics and society. However it's far more than just them. We, as Europeans, really need to start looking at our societies, and recognising what we've allowed them to evolve into..

doublejobbing 2

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I see Hazel Chu is crying in the media today about not feeling safe in her own city.

She didn't seem too worried about people's safety a month ago

I was getting worried. I hadn't seen a one on one interview in mainstream media with Hazel in nearly 24 hours.

Can anybody here tell me who is the mayor of Cork?
Limerick?
Galway?

Course you can't. Yet for some reason a local councillor for a minor party in a council area with circa 11% of the state's population is now a household name nationwide. 4000 people voted for her- we are getting lectures on national policy from somebody who was elected by less than 1 in 1000 of the general public. She is contacted on a thrice weekly basis by the two main broadsheets to give her opinion on everything from race to, believe it or not, Dublin's nightclub culture (while any move to relax licensing laws is more than welcome, I read an interview with her yesterday about Dublin's disappearing club culture. Just a bit odd as Chu strikes me as an absolute fun vacuum and thus I wonder how often she has actually stayed out beyond 10pm).

By the time of the next election Chu will either be the head of the Green Party and parachuted into a safe Dail seat, or, more likely, sent off for election to the Seanad where she can earn a fortune doing absolutely fluck all.

In saying that I'd sooner have her rubber stamping stuff in the Seanad than trying to ruin Dublin for motorists from her seat on the council.

Gatling

This might take a little explaining
From an article in 2019

Earlier this year the Department of Justice announced in its annual immigration review that 5,028 people had been “deported or otherwise removed” from the State in 2018. In reality, just 163 people living in Ireland were taken from their homes and put on a plane.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reality-of-deportation-i-plead-with-my-life-to-be-allowed-to-remain-1.4088615%3fmode=amp

Justin Credible Darts

The problem with the word "multiculturalism" is what people actually think it means or should mean.

Not all culture is a good thing.
Take the travelers culture for example, a culture most Irish people dislike.

Nothing wrong with people coming here to work, whatever you color, race, sex, creed etc, it is coming here to live of the state, drain the system and offer nothing in return.
Its not the job of this government to look after people from another country. Its their job to represent the people of this country, the people that put them in that position in the first place.
They have an obligation and duty to tend to their own people first, before taking on the problems of other countries

biko

Gatling wrote: »

This might take a little explaining
From an article in 2019

Earlier this year the Department of Justice announced in its annual immigration review that 5,028 people had been “deported or otherwise removed” from the State in 2018. In reality, just 163 people living in Ireland were taken from their homes and put on a plane.

I see this in other countries also. US, Sweden etc. Of course there the numbers are higher, in Sweden 2015 it was around 11000 that have gone into hiding when faced with deportation.

We are getting away from the topic of multiculturalism though.
From 10 years ago

So, the biggest failure of multiculturalism is not that it has failed to create a sense of belonging among minorities but that it has paid too little attention to how to sustain support among parts of the white population, who are sceptical about the ability to retain a minority ethnic or religious identity while being British and who perceive conflict over resources (especially access to social housing) with immigrants and ethnic minorities.

Addressing these concerns is what needs to be done if Roy Jenkins’ ambitions for equal opportunity and cultural diversity to thrive in an atmosphere of mutual tolerance are to become anything like reality

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/multiculturalism-immigration-support-white-population/

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Not all culture is a good thing.
Take the travelers culture for example, a culture most Irish people dislike.

Some cultures should be allowed to die, because they have no place in a modern world. The Traveller culture is like this. I've been around Travellers most of my life, and I've yet to see a positive within Traveller communities, that didn't come from an external culture. Their own culture is destructive, and turns people into trash. It chews up people and leaves them broken and bitter.

Look around the world. Some cultures succeed, and others fall by the wayside. The problem is that now every culture is seen to be worthy of protecting, irrespective of the damage it does to it's own people, and those exposed to it.

Just as various African tribal cultures should stay in Africa, where they either die off, or evolve into something capable of surviving by itself. We shouldn't be expected to protect that culture... except perhaps as an museum exhibit to show how Humanity shouldn't create bad systems.

Burkie1203

I see Nigerians are now experts on Garda training now



https://twitter.com/TheLiberal_ie/status/1356324150193885184?s=19

Gatling

It's about class .

Which classes is it ok for shooting when they violently attack a local shop worker and then attack armed guards with a knife.

Effects

Gatling wrote: »

It's about class .

Which classes is it ok for shooting when they violently attack a local shop worker and then attack armed guards with a knife.

Ah here, come on. Don't start this up again.

ExMachina1000

My view is more of a question.
I can see the changes going on around me.

My question is do we (the west) have a choice?

Burkie1203

Effects wrote: »

Ah here, come on. Don't start this up again.

I think this is actually a significant topic right now

I fully expect GSOC to find that Gardai did everything they could and no further action to be brought.

Then we will see how the Nigerian etc community react. And if its Blanch on NYE repeated and Gardai stand back and do nothing then we have a major issue in this country.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

This might take a little explaining
From an article in 2019

Earlier this year the Department of Justice announced in its annual immigration review that 5,028 people had been “deported or otherwise removed” from the State in 2018. In reality, just 163 people living in Ireland were taken from their homes and put on a plane.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reality-of-deportation-i-plead-with-my-life-to-be-allowed-to-remain-1.4088615%3fmode=amp

If you google the man in that article it seems as if his deportation order was revoked https://www.change.org/p/minister-charlie-flanagan-revoke-joe-odiboh-s-deportation-order-minister-charlie-flanagan

Which leads to a question of why was it revoked, are deportation orders being given out when they shouldn't be or is the government scared to deport people for fear of any kind of negative publicity? I think its the latter. As soon as someone makes a fuss a deportation order seems to be revoked and people know that.

A quote from that IT article is very prescient "You either have a serious deportation system or you don’t.", I think its pretty obvious that we don't and anyone can see its going to cause trouble down the line

ThunbergsAreGo

Deleted User wrote: »

If you google the man in that article it seems as if his deportation order was revoked https://www.change.org/p/minister-charlie-flanagan-revoke-joe-odiboh-s-deportation-order-minister-charlie-flanagan

Which leads to a question of why was it revoked, are deportation orders being given out when they shouldn't be or is the government scared to deport people for fear of any kind of negative publicity? I think its the latter. As soon as someone makes a fuss a deportation order seems to be revoked and people know that.

A quote from that IT article is very prescient "You either have a serious deportation system or you don’t.", I think its pretty obvious that we don't and anyone can see its going to cause trouble down the line

I have nothing against this man and may be missing something obvious. But why would a Nigerian born man, facing persecution for being foreign in South Africa, choose to go to Ireland and not back to Nigeria?

It seems pretty clear there is no grounds for asylum here.

Wibbs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

My view is more of a question.
I can see the changes going on around me.

My question is do we (the west) have a choice?

Not really as there are no alternatives in politics beyond the loony fringes who will even bring up the question around this subject. We're being told from the top down that this multicultural politic is a positive, here to stay and to be increased because pensions/exoticism/nebulous positives[delete as applicable].

No conspiracy required either. The "anchor baby" loophole opened the gates in the late 90's/early 00's so it was a done deal by that stage. Though successive governments failure to streamline direct provision, clamp down on illegals(sorry "undocumented"), deport illegals and a push for more non EU people to come here has certainly not helped.

Effects

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I fully expect GSOC to find that Gardai did everything they could and no further action to be brought.

No further action against the Gardaí is likely to happen, but also possible that new training and review of procedures to be recommended.

It's crazy to think you can go from taser/weak pepper spray to a gun, with no other measures in between. I know there's people who don't think like that, so no point debating again in this thread.

There was a video last week, which looks to show a Garda pepper spraying a guy who had just stabbed someone. Had little to no affect on him.
It's been said before that the Garda pepper spray is really weak, but I can't understand why that's the case, if it's basically ineffective.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

No further action against the Gardaí is likely to happen, but also possible that new training and review of procedures to be recommended.

It's crazy to think you can go from taser/weak pepper spray to a gun, with no other measures in between. I know there's people who don't think like that, so no point debating again in this thread.

There was a video last week, which looks to show a Garda pepper spraying a guy who had just stabbed someone. Had little to no affect on him.
It's been said before that the Garda pepper spray is really weak, but I can't understand why that's the case, if it's basically ineffective.

They can also belt them with batons but hard to get close enough to a maniac with a gun if you only have a small baton.
What other type weapon would you suggest?

Yellow_Fern

Effects wrote: »

No further action against the Gardaí is likely to happen, but also possible that new training and review of procedures to be recommended.

It's crazy to think you can go from taser/weak pepper spray to a gun, with no other measures in between. I know there's people who don't think like that, so no point debating again in this thread.

There was a video last week, which looks to show a Garda pepper spraying a guy who had just stabbed someone. Had little to no affect on him.
It's been said before that the Garda pepper spray is really weak, but I can't understand why that's the case, if it's basically ineffective.

They also use tasers and they are reported to use them in this case. Tasers are no joke. Plenty are killed abroad every year from tasers, at case fatality rate of a middle aged person with covid. Maybe if it was a seige situation you could think of using other technology but not within the short time span of that incident. Its the same problem police have everywhere, which is why even in the safe

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

They also use tasers and they are reported to use them in this case. Tasers are no joke. Plenty are killed abroad every year from tasers, at case fatality rate of a middle aged person with covid. Maybe if it was a seige situation you could think of using other technology but not within the short time span of that incident. Its the same problem police have everywhere, which is why even in the safe

Chances of being killed by a taster are less then 1%

jmreire

Effects wrote: »

No further action against the Gardaí is likely to happen, but also possible that new training and review of procedures to be recommended.

It's crazy to think you can go from taser/weak pepper spray to a gun, with no other measures in between. I know there's people who don't think like that, so no point debating again in this thread.

There was a video last week, which looks to show a Garda pepper spraying a guy who had just stabbed someone. Had little to no affect on him.
It's been said before that the Garda pepper spray is really weak, but I can't understand why that's the case, if it's basically ineffective.

For pepper spray to be really effective, you need to get basically up close and personal...the further away you are from the person , the less effective it is. And as for the tazer, just goes to show how thick layes of winter clothes can affect that too. Basically, a net would be needed in a case like this , and long poles. Even the poles could be used effectively to disable a person with a knife., as they keep the weapon out of striking range. But none of this is in the Guarda arsenal. Under the circumstances the Guarda acted 100% correctly at all time's.

weldoninhio

jmreire wrote: »

For pepper spray to be really effective, you need to get basically up close and personal...the further away you are from the person , the less effective it is. And as for the tazer, just goes to show how thick layes of winter clothes can affect that too. Basically, a net would be needed in a case like this , and long poles. Even the poles could be used effectively to disable a person with a knife., as they keep the weapon out of striking range. But none of this is in the Guarda arsenal. Under the circumstances the Guarda acted 100% correctly at all time's.

We could get Dick Dastardly and Muttley to run the training, they aren't getting as much cartoon work nowadays. Wile E Coyote could advise too.

Yellow_Fern

bubblypop wrote: »

Chances of being killed by a taster are less then 1%

That is really high actually. The same rate as a middle aged person with covid dying. I wouldnt drive a car if there was a 1% risk of death per a trip.

WrenBoy

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the pepper spray used by AGS is weak by design so as to avoid claims against AGS for injury obtained in its use during arrests.
Probably a mild irritant as opposed to a painful mixture which would blind and incapacitate for a short while but would no doubt result in cases brought over police brutality in the current environment, I doubt the Gardaí themselves would be confident in being backed up should such cases be brought against them.
I'm only guessing though.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

That is really high actually. The same rate as a middle aged person with covid dying. I wouldnt drive a car if there was a 1% risk of death per a trip.

Yes but what are the odds of you being in a situation that requires you to be tasered?

Anyway, all completely off topic!