What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire

weldoninhio wrote: »

We could get Dick Dastardly and Muttley to run the training, they aren't getting as much cartoon work nowadays. Wile E Coyote could advise too.

Oh, in different Countrys, I've seen what police armed with poles / sticks can do in a similar situation.......and believe me, it works 100%.. and they didn't even need nets, but then again, they would not particularly fussy about the state of health of the person / persons being "subdued", and using a net would have meant that no harm was done. But this was not even on their list of priorities. Disable / remove the threat as quickly and as efficiently as possible was the only plan. And a metre long stave did that very well. But like I said, these are not on the Guarda equipment list. Perhaps you have a better idea on how to tackle anyone armed with a knife?

weldoninhio

jmreire wrote: »

Oh, in different Countrys, I've seen what police armed with poles / sticks can do in a similar situation.......and believe me, it works 100%.. and they didn't even need nets, but then again, they would not particularly fussy about the state of health of the person / persons being "subdued", and using a net would have meant that no harm was done. But this was not even on their list of priorities. Disable / remove the threat as quickly and as efficiently as possible was the only plan. And a metre long stave did that very well. But like I said, these are not on the Guarda equipment list. Perhaps you have a better idea on how to tackle anyone armed with a knife?

Graduated escalation. Try to talk them down, then pepper spray, then taser. If it doesn't work first time, try the same again.

However, once there is a threat to life, you shoot until the perpetrator is down and no longer poses a threat.

We've barely any Garda shootings in Ireland, so the above seems to be working.

Burkie1203

Effects wrote: »

No further action against the Gardaí is likely to happen, but also possible that new training and review of procedures to be recommended.
.

Very hard to implement procedures in a violent incident which was 20 minutes long. Not hours.

Based on what I can ascertain, Gardai stepped up levels as the incident got more serious to the point a threat to life had to be neutralised.

They shadowed him from the shop area for a short period before they got to the house..

Procedures are fine but every situation is different and sometimes Gardai have to go beyond procedures.

enricoh

Here's a piece of dirt in court today, he has 22 previous conversations here, the judge adjourned so as to find out is he here legally. If he isn't I'd love if the girl could take the government to the cleaners over it. How da fuq did no one ascertain if he is legit or not the previous 22 times?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-awoke-in-her-bed-to-find-burglar-with-his-hand-on-her-throat-kissing-her-40038313.html

jmreire

weldoninhio wrote: »

Graduated escalation. Try to talk them down, then pepper spray, then taser. If it doesn't work first time, try the same again.

However, once there is a threat to life, you shoot until the perpetrator is down and no longer poses a threat.

We've barely any Garda shootings in Ireland, so the above seems to be working.

Yes and thats what happened in this particular case. But do you think that had the Guards been armed with 1 mtr heavy sticks, as per my suggestion, that the outcome would have been diferent?

FileNotFound

As Irish people who spread like rats across the world its a reality its time we paid back and let people come here.

Simple really, besides most so called immigrants work when they arrive.

And they offer a handy excuse for the doley lifers - its win win from what i can see.

FileNotFound

enricoh wrote: »

Here's a piece of dirt in court today, he has 22 previous conversations here, the judge adjourned so as to find out is he here legally. If he isn't I'd love if the girl could take the government to the cleaners over it. How da fuq did no one ascertain if he is legit or not the previous 22 times?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-awoke-in-her-bed-to-find-burglar-with-his-hand-on-her-throat-kissing-her-40038313.html

I see 100's of pieces of sh1t irish with 100's of convictions who leach my tax going through courts all the time.

I do believe that anyone whop breaks the law should suffer loss or massive reduction in their social supports and in fairness if your applying to live here it should mean auto reject, instant deportation.

Fairs fair and all that.

Effects

bubblypop wrote: »

What other type weapon would you suggest?

Rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. They work in other situations abroad.
They weren't able to be deployed in this instance, but might work in the future.

briany

FileNotFound wrote: »

I do believe that anyone whop breaks the law should suffer loss or massive reduction in their social supports

I think it should be looked at on a case-by-case basis as not all crime or criminals are equal. Some crimes could be a one-time act of stupidity, or perhaps even be honourable in a way. They mightn't necessarily pose any ongoing threat to society. Of course, you have your common skanger who keeps getting done for drug dealing or burglary, and cutting his dole off is something he probably wouldn't like, but it could also be an incentive to commit more crimes, given he needs the money and his chance of legit employment isn't very high. Throw him in jail, he's out in relatively short order and the cycle repeats.

FileNotFound

briany wrote: »

I think it should be looked at on a case-by-case basis as not all crime or criminals are equal. Some crimes could be a one-time act of stupidity, or perhaps even be honourable in a way. They mightn't necessarily pose any ongoing threat to society. Of course, you have your common skanger who keeps getting done for drug dealing or burglary, and cutting his dole off is something he probably wouldn't like, but it could also be an incentive to commit more crimes, given he needs the money and his chance of legit employment isn't very high. Throw him in jail, he's out in relatively short order and the cycle repeats.

No argument there - i would expect a certain level and above would need applying - if they are starving and robbed a sandwich would not be what i had intended.

I was having a mini rant while trying to point out that we have plenty of sponges using imiigration as an excuse to never work.

biko

FileNotFound wrote: »

As Irish people who spread like rats across the world its a reality its time we paid back and let people come here.

Simple really, besides most so called immigrants work when they arrive.

And they offer a handy excuse for the doley lifers - its win win from what i can see.

I'd like to see some source for your claims, particularly Irish people spreading "like rats", which sounds very racist to me (and to PETA recently)

And if you can back up "most immigrants work". For instance employment rate for Africans in Ireland 2018 was 45%. That's not "most are working".

And 53% of the Brazilians who moved to Ireland before census 2016 were students, that's not "most are working".

Non-UK EU immigrants and North America immigrants have the highest training and the highest employment rate of all immigrants. There you are finally right, most of them work.

briany

biko wrote: »

I'd like to see some source for your claims, particularly Irish people spreading "like rats", which sounds very racist to me (and to PETA recently)

And if you can back up "most immigrants work". For instance employment rate for Africans in Ireland 2018 was 45%. That's not "most are working".

And 53% of the Brazilians who moved to Ireland before census 2016 were students, that's not "most are working".

Non-UK EU immigrants and North America immigrants have the highest training and the highest employment rate of all immigrants. There you are finally right, most of them work.

To be fair, the poster just said that most immigrants, as in the totality of all immigrants, work. Is that, or is that not a true statement?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30883643.html#:~:text=The%20analysis%20by%20the%20Economic,low%20employment%20rates%20of%2045%25.

This would suggest that it is well over half, so it would be true to say that, yes, most immigrants work.

weldoninhio

jmreire wrote: »

Yes and thats what happened in this particular case. But do you think that had the Guards been armed with 1 mtr heavy sticks, as per my suggestion, that the outcome would have been diferent?

No, a metre is 3 foot. A metre stick is about the same length as a baseball bat What should they do with the stick? Beat him with it? Wouldn’t that be classed as inciting him?

biko

briany wrote: »

To be fair, the poster just said that most immigrants, as in the totality of all immigrants, work. Is that, or is that not a true statement?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30883643.html#:~:text=The%20analysis%20by%20the%20Economic,low%20employment%20rates%20of%2045%25.

This would suggest that it is well over half, so it would be true to say that, yes, most immigrants work.

Yes, that is the article I posted and I commented "There you are finally right, most of them work".

Effects

Effects wrote: »

Rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. They work in other situations abroad.
They weren't able to be deployed in this instance, but might work in the future.

And would you have these weapons instead of guns?

briany

biko wrote: »

Yes, that is the article I posted and I commented "There you are finally right, most of them work".

So we can all agree that most immigrants work.

To be blunt about all this, there shouldn't really be a question about immigration because it's too broad a term. Really, the conversation is about a certain subset or subset of immigrants like people from Africa, where the popular concern is that there arrival is a net detriment. Some people are tip-toeing around that, and some are not, but this is really at the heart of it.

FileNotFound

biko wrote: »

I'd like to see some source for your claims, particularly Irish people spreading "like rats", which sounds very racist to me (and to PETA recently)

And if you can back up "most immigrants work". For instance employment rate for Africans in Ireland 2018 was 45%. That's not "most are working".

And 53% of the Brazilians who moved to Ireland before census 2016 were students, that's not "most are working".

Non-UK EU immigrants and North America immigrants have the highest training and the highest employment rate of all immigrants. There you are finally right, most of them work.

The fact that half US and UK call themsevles Irish.

We had what 8 million here and then we went down to 2 (Many deaths but more immigration)

Did you not learn history in school??? Or were you just not paying attention?

Oh I'm an Irishman racist against myself - well if stating what i have been taught about my history is racist we have found a new definition haha - love it.

I work with loads of immigrants from the Eu and elsewhere - good honest hard working people - I know lots of life long doley wasters from Ireland too - thankfully those immigrants i mentioned help cover that dole bill...

Africans and brazilians you say - skin colour an issue for you???? Head to templebar and see all the working Barzilian students - besides last i saw not many irish students work....

Effects

bubblypop wrote: »

And would you have these weapons instead of guns?

Why would you have them instead of guns? You use them before you have to use a gun. And after you use pepper spray and taser.

weldoninhio

FileNotFound wrote: »

The fact that half US and UK call themsevles Irish.

We had what 8 million here and then we went down to 2 (Many deaths but more immigration)

Did you not learn history in school??? Or were you just not paying attention?

Oh I'm an Irishman racist against myself - well if stating what i have been taught about my history is racist we have found a new definition haha - love it.

I work with loads of immigrants from the Eu and elsewhere - good honest hard working people - I know lots of life long doley wasters from Ireland too - thankfully those immigrants i mentioned help cover that dole bill...

Africans and brazilians you say - skin colour an issue for you???? Head to templebar and see all the working Barzilian students - besides last i saw not many irish students work....

If you think the population of Ireland went to 2m, you’d wanna crack out the history books yourself mate. It did drop by approx. 2m after the famine, 1m dead and 1m emigrated.


As a direct consequence of the famine, Ireland's population fell from almost 8.4 million in 1844 to 6.6 million by 1851. About 1 million people died and perhaps 2 million more eventually emigrated from the country. Many who survived suffered from malnutrition.

weldoninhio

Effects wrote: »

Why would you have them instead of guns? You use them before you have to use a gun. And after you use pepper spray and taser.

How do you carry all of these guns/non-lethal weapons? We’ve no octopuses in the Gardai.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

Why would you have them instead of guns? You use them before you have to use a gun. And after you use pepper spray and taser.

You are planning on having plenty of time in an emergency situation!

On a completely practical level, Where would you like the members to carry everything?

FileNotFound

weldoninhio wrote: »

If you think the population of Ireland went to 2m, you’d wanna crack out the history books yourself mate. It did drop by approx. 2m after the famine, 1m dead and 1m emigrated.


As a direct consequence of the famine, Ireland's population fell from almost 8.4 million in 1844 to 6.6 million by 1851. About 1 million people died and perhaps 2 million more eventually emigrated from the country. Many who survived suffered from malnutrition.

Odd just used google and it gave this

"6 million people left between 1841 and 1900. This figure exceeded the total population of Ireland at the beginning of the 19th century"

But sure you'd know more than google now wouldn't ya hahahaha



Edit: if you had not noticed i am only in this thread for the wind up - but the above is what google said...

kildare lad

bubblypop wrote: »

You are planning on having plenty of time in an emergency situation!

On a completely practical level, Where would you like the members to carry everything?

Wheelbarrow ?

Ted_YNWA

FileNotFound wrote: »

Odd just used google and it gave this

"6 million people left between 1841 and 1900. This figure exceeded the total population of Ireland at the beginning of the 19th century"

But sure you'd know more than google now wouldn't ya hahahaha



Edit: if you had not noticed i am only in this thread for the wind up - but the above is what google said...

Mod

If you want to post just for the wind up, I'd suggest a different site
That attitude is not welcome on Boards

Effects

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you carry all of these guns/non-lethal weapons? We’ve no octopuses in the Gardai.

Why do you think they drive such big vehicles?

jmreire

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, a metre is 3 foot. A metre stick is about the same length as a baseball bat What should they do with the stick? Beat him with it? Wouldn’t that be classed as inciting him?

I'm pretty sure that the ERU are pretty well trained in close combat as well. So 3 or 4 of them armed with as you put it, "baseball bats" would definitely have been able to disarm any knife wielding person. Strike from 3 sides, and for sure he / she would be dropping the knife. All they needed was to keep out of range of his knife, and baseball bats would definitely have done that. Now if he had been carrying a machete, as was originally reported, THAT would have been a horse of a different colour..but now it seems that he was "only" carrying a kitchen knife..

Effects

Effects wrote: »

Why do you think they drive such big vehicles?

And would the maniac with the knife pause for a few mins while the members run over to the car and get out whichever weapon is next in the list?

Scoondal

I like multiculturalism in Ireland. It shakes things up a bit. It's nice.

weldoninhio

jmreire wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that the ERU are pretty well trained in close combat as well. So 3 or 4 of them armed with as you put it, "baseball bats" would definitely have been able to disarm any knife wielding person. Strike from 3 sides, and for sure he / she would be dropping the knife. All they needed was to keep out of range of his knife, and baseball bats would definitely have done that. Now if he had been carryimng a machete, as was originally from reported, THAT would have been a horse of a different colour..but now it seems that he was "only" carrying a kitchen knife..

Jesus wept. Give a friend a red marker, get a foam bat. Tell him your going to him him with it, and to see if he can mark you with the marker before he gets hit. Make sure your not wearing any nice clothes.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

And would you have these weapons instead of guns?

Ideally, both should available to the Guardai to cover all eventualities. And why not? Main difference between being hit by rubber bullets / bean bag rounds is that these hits are designed to be survivable. Real live bullets, such as those fired from a Glock pistol,can be and are designed to be lethal. So why not cover both eventuality's ?
The main problem is that it has now come to the stage where these kind of confrontations are becoming increasingly commonplase,,,,,Our Guarda need to be fully equipped to cope with that.