What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Kivaro

I see that French MPs passed the anti-separatism bill today in order to battle Islamic radicalism, and it will come into law next year. Imagine having to pass a law in order to forbid virginity tests and certificates by doctors for Muslim and other religious marriages. About 1/3 of doctors in France have been asked to carry out these tests, with most of them refusing. How this archaic practice was ever allowed or acceptable in the first instance in any modern Western society is beyond any rational thinking mind.

On Friday President Macron spoke out against radicalisation in some French Muslim communities, saying that there was a danger of them forming a "counter-society". These counter societies are already prevalent in some areas of France, where females are not allowed into cafes etc.

We should hope that Ireland learns from the French experience, and actually stop problems occurring before the need to pass our own bills to forbid abhorrent behaviour ascribed to the culture or religion of large groups of people who migrate to Ireland. The people of Ireland should not be required to adapt to the customs or beliefs of people who move to our country.

biko

FIFA asks the female judges not to touch Sheikh Joaan bin Hamad Al Thani of Qatar.

If your culture makes you act differently towards men and women then possibly your culture is ****.

And if you enable this, like FIFA, then possibly you are a money grabbing ****.

https://twitter.com/piotr_texel/status/1361730417670443010?s=20

Gatling

biko wrote: »

FIFA asks the female judges not to touch Sheikh Joaan bin Hamad Al Thani of Qatar.

If your culture makes you act differently towards men and women then possibly your culture is ****.

And if you enable this, like FIFA, then possibly you are a money grabbing ****.

https://twitter.com/piotr_texel/status/1361730417670443010?s=20

Absolutely rediculous ****e

jmreire

Kivaro wrote: »

I see that French MPs passed the anti-separatism bill today in order to battle Islamic radicalism, and it will come into law next year. Imagine having to pass a law in order to forbid virginity tests and certificates by doctors for Muslim and other religious marriages. About 1/3 of doctors in France have been asked to carry out these tests, with most of them refusing. How this archaic practice was ever allowed or acceptable in the first instance in any modern Western society is beyond any rational thinking mind.

On Friday President Macron spoke out against radicalisation in some French Muslim communities, saying that there was a danger of them forming a "counter-society". These counter societies are already prevalent in some areas of France, where females are not allowed into cafes etc.

We should hope that Ireland learns from the French experience, and actually stop problems occurring before the need to pass our own bills to forbid abhorrent behaviour ascribed to the culture or religion of large groups of people who migrate to Ireland. The people of Ireland should n'ot be required to adapt to the customs or beliefs of people who move to our country.

You can take all the Muslims you like from the Islamic Country's, but you cannot take the Islam from the Muslim. And that is what he /she .will live by. No matter that they obey and observe the national laws of their adopted land while they have to, but they will still obey Sharia law, and follow the dictates of the local Mullah or Imam as much as is possible. And they will work endlessly to introduce Islamic law and way of life. It starts by "finding" ways in which local customs / laws agree with Sharia and the Islamic way of life.. then having established the ground work, it starts to insist on Muslim's being allowed to follow their own Culture., even when it contradicts the culture of the host / adopted Country. Its a well trodden path in other Countries , and it has started in Ireland. In Germany, which has a large Muslim population, the Germans maintain that there is only one law of the land, the German one, but where German and Sharia Law agree, they allow the Sharia to be used. Islam is now and has always been in expansion mode, by whatever means it can use.

weldoninhio

biko wrote: »

FIFA asks the female judges not to touch Sheikh Joaan bin Hamad Al Thani of Qatar.

If your culture makes you act differently towards men and women then possibly your culture is ****.

And if you enable this, like FIFA, then possibly you are a money grabbing ****.

https://twitter.com/piotr_texel/status/1361730417670443010?s=20

It doesn’t take too much digging to see that this isn’t true.

FIFA president Gianni Infantino has hit back at "false rumours" he asked female referees not to greet a Qatari delegate during the Club World Cup medal ceremony.

biko

weldoninhio wrote: »

FIFA president Gianni Infantino has hit back at "false rumours" he asked female referees not to greet a Qatari delegate during the Club World Cup medal ceremony.

I doubt that. What else did you think he would say after the criticism?
Why didn't you find any sources from the females?

Why didn't the Sheikh at least wave? What do you think?

weldoninhio

biko wrote: »

I doubt that. What else did you think he would say after the criticism?
Why didn't you find any sources from the females?

Why didn't the Sheikh at least wave? What do you think?

Why would he say it before it happened?? That would just be odd.

kildare lad

Kivaro wrote: »

I see that French MPs passed the anti-separatism bill today in order to battle Islamic radicalism, and it will come into law next year. Imagine having to pass a law in order to forbid virginity tests and certificates by doctors for Muslim and other religious marriages. About 1/3 of doctors in France have been asked to carry out these tests, with most of them refusing. How this archaic practice was ever allowed or acceptable in the first instance in any modern Western society is beyond any rational thinking mind.

On Friday President Macron spoke out against radicalisation in some French Muslim communities, saying that there was a danger of them forming a "counter-society". These counter societies are already prevalent in some areas of France, where females are not allowed into cafes etc.

We should hope that Ireland learns from the French experience, and actually stop problems occurring before the need to pass our own bills to forbid abhorrent behaviour ascribed to the culture or religion of large groups of people who migrate to Ireland. The people of Ireland should not be required to adapt to the customs or beliefs of people who move to our country.

Talk about closing the stable door...

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

You can take all the Muslims you like from the Islamic Country's, but you cannot take the Islam from the Muslim. And that is what he /she .will live by. No matter that they obey and observe the national laws of their adopted land while they have to, but they will still obey Sharia law, and follow the dictates of the local Mullah or Imam as much as is possible. And they will work endlessly to introduce Islamic law and way of life. It starts by "finding" ways in which local customs / laws agree with Sharia and the Islamic way of life.. then having established the ground work, it starts to insist on Muslim's being allowed to follow their own Culture., even when it contradicts the culture of the host / adopted Country. Its a well trodden path in other Countries , and it has started in Ireland. In Germany, which has a large Muslim population, the Germans maintain that there is only one law of the land, the German one, but where German and Sharia Law agree, they allow the Sharia to be used. Islam is now and has always been in expansion mode, by whatever means it can use.

So all Muslims will do this yes?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So all Muslims will do this yes?

No... Any Muslims who aren't terribly serious about their religion won't.. but let's be honest here, they'll be a minority, and likely they'll be that way when they're young, but become more traditional/faithful as they get older.

The vast majority of Muslims will be strong believers, because that's what the religion demands from them. It's reinforced by their society, culture, and the community aspect of the faith, which has fellow Muslims watching each other to ensure conformity.

You see... this thing about disqualifying the remark based on there being some who won't behave a certain way, falls somewhat by the wayside, when it comes to Islam. And, this is important, as any western country becomes more accepting of Islamic practices, that will create greater pressure on all Muslims in that country, to conform to what their Islamic community expects of them.

But sure, there will be some Muslims who separate themselves from the community, worship in private, and behave more like other non-Muslim westerners... There won't be many though..

And it bears remembering that one of the core tenants of the faith is the spread of the religion. Through force, diplomacy, etc. All means are counted as being valid... but it does come back to the desire by these believers that all non-believers convert, or are punished for their resistance to the truth.

biko

Denmark require a handshake at naturalization ceremonies.
This to apparently target extremely religious Jews and Muslims from becoming citizens and force home the Danish values.

Billy O'Shea, Clare man who has lived there almost 40 years, couldn't get Danish citizenship because he doesn't want to shake mayor's hand.

He can **** off back to Ireland so

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

So all Muslims will do this yes?

Yes. All Muslims who ARE practising Islam....every one of them. You ( or I) or anyone else might be religious, and to a greater or lesser degree it will influence your Life. For a Muslim,,the Religion IS his Life. His / Her every thought and action (literally) will be giverned by Islamic/ Sharia law and teachings. And it is rigorously enforced, and in some cases brutally. Colleague of mine converted to Christianity, and all went well, for awhile. Then it was noticed that he was no longer praying the mandatory 5 times per day, and he was challenged on it. He choose not to deny his Christianity and admitted converting. He was then given the option of apologising for his "transgression" and being accepted back into Islam, or else. These were the stark choices. So he packed all his Family inc. grand parents, and as much as he could fit into his car, and he left the Country in the early morning to ensure his safety. So all the talk about intergration, getting to know the real Islam etc, is about propagating Islam,,,and not the other way round. I've lived in Islamic Countrys for many years, several of them, from the most extreme version, Wahabbism, to the most "relaxed" version in the Balkan., i know pretty well what its like. Most of my friends are muslim, and you could not wish for better,,,,,its the Islam and Sharia Law I do not like.

I'm not religious and it has no effect on my life whatsoever.
I don't agree that all Muslims will behave as you say. I too know many Muslims and there are plenty are a la carte, if you want to put it that way, about their religion.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not religious and it has no effect on my life whatsoever.

You're not comparing like with like then. Perhaps you were religious once when you were young, but it's been many decades since Catholicism in Ireland had the influence over it's followers the way that Islam does. Likely, you have very limited experience of what such a religion would be like, unless you were born into something like the Jehova's witnesses, or another devout (hardline) sect.

You're not religious and it has no effect. Fine. That would be pretty obvious since religion has no importance in your life, so it wouldn't affect it.

On the flip side, I'm not religious (now) but I am spiritual. I believe in God, but I have no formal mode of worship, or dogmatic system to follow. And yet, even with my very loose attitude to God, that belief has a strong influence over how I behave in life. It matters.

I don't agree that all Muslims will behave as you say. I too know many Muslims and there are plenty are a la carte, if you want to put it that way, about their religion.

I suspect your interactions with them are limited, without being given any insights into how they live in their own homes, and the relationships between father, wife, children etc. Or perhaps you know some younger Muslims who are unmarried, who like to smoke sometimes, or will go for a pint... but once they reach marriageable age, their attitudes will flip entirely. I've seen it happen many times before. Muslim young men who play at being westerners, but who become heavily focused on their religion, as they get close to being married.

The point being, though, that few non-believers ever really get to see how Muslims behave in their own homes, or with other Muslims in a private setting. I used to tutor some Muslim children in learning English, and got to know the father quite well... Muslims... are very very different from us. Can be amazingly gentle people... but at the same time, I've seen them flip personalities on certain discussion topics.

A lot like when you speak to a Chinese person (from the mainland) about Tibet, Taiwan, etc. On any other subject, they will be open, friendly, and fairly relaxed. But these topics? total personality shift.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not religious and it has no effect on my life whatsoever.
I don't agree that all Muslims will behave as you say. I too know many Muslims and there are plenty are a la carte, if you want to put it that way, about their religion.

Bubblypop, I did mention "Fully practising Muslim's" and I'm well aware that just like Christian and other religions, you will have the hard core centre, filtering out towards a diluted version on the fringes. But even so, the Nrs of "ocassional" muslims on the fringes will be much smaller than other religions. I've seen Muslims change overnight from being completely
westernised...drinking , wearing latest fashions and hair styles, makeup etc, into hijab wearing hard core islamists. Happened to a good friend of mine.....married a Muslim lady, on the clear understanding that while he would marry her under Islamic law, he never had or was planning to have any truck with religion.. any religion. And he was just going through the motion's to marry her. Fast forward 25 years, and 2 daughters later, she decides to return to islam 100%, and demands that he join her. He refuses, and now they are seperated. And this happened in Europe.
Have you ever lived ( and I mean actually stayed in an Islamic Country for say minimum 6 months or longer,,,6 years even? or more? As I have done? ) or are all your Muslim friends here in Ireland? Because it does make a difference whether you meet them on your home ground, or on theirs. But Klaz explains the situation very well in his post on how it progresses.

I lived in England as a child, where I knew many muslims, but we were all children. I still visit, my family there and I have a couple of people from childhood who are still friends, some members of their families were strict(er) but most are still the same. They may not drink but their family lives are the same as everyone else. Yes there are strict Muslims, but there are plenty who are not.

I also know my cousins friends in Dubai, which of course is different, but I wouldn't be aware of what goes on inside their houses. And they absolutely do live different lives to my friends in England. I am not a big fan of Dubai, but that's because of more then just their religion.

I also spent 18 months in Kosovo, where I was friends with many muslims. Inside their houses and knew their families. There are few strict Muslims there. They do observe some parts of their religion. I also had interactions with hundreds of people living there, in their homes, in towns, small villages and rural areas. Muslims of all ages.

In work I meet people from all walks of life. I am meeting more Muslims now obviously then I did 20 years ago. I also get inside people's houses and families because of my job. I can see the differences in different cultures.
I honestly don't need Klaz or anyone to explain how some easy going muslims change as they get older, or are pressured into becoming stricter in their religion.
I'm not saying all Muslims are perfect, in the same way I don't say all Irish are perfect.

Posters on this thread are obsessed with Islam and Muslim people. I don't care where someone is from or what religion they are. People are people. I have had enough experience with people.
I am not 'open borders' I don't believe I have ever met anyone who thinks flooding a small island with hundreds of thousands of people is a good idea!
I only care that they live a good, legal, happy life.
There's no need for the hysteria that is shown in this thread. I have no issue with people of any culture living in this country.

And there is no requirement, in my view, to prove why 'multiculturalism is a good thing'
It is what it is.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're not comparing like with like then. Perhaps you were religious once when you were young, but it's been many decades since Catholicism in Ireland had the influence over it's followers the way that Islam does. Likely, you have very limited experience of what such a religion would be like, unless you were born into something like the Jehova's witnesses, or another devout (hardline) sect.
.

Just on this point, I'm not young! I'm mid 40s, I moved to Ireland in the 80s. My best friend was in a mother and baby home when she got pregnant as a teenager.
I remember how things were, I was in school with nuns and a priest, I saw violence towards children. Everyone knew who the priest was that you avoided. I
I saw the way my family was eyed with suspicion by people in the town
It's not something I was ever interested in and when I was a teenager I stopped engaging in religion. Much to my mams disappointment.
Just an aside.

Arthur Daley

bubblypop wrote: »

I am not 'open borders' I don't believe I have ever met anyone who thinks flooding a small island with hundreds of thousands of people is a good idea!

"Success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan"

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Posters on this thread are obsessed with Islam and Muslim people. I don't care where someone is from or what religion they are. People are people. I have had enough experience with people.

You were doing great until you decided to put this in. We're not obsessed with Muslims, otherwise the whole thread would be about them, which it's not. However, Muslims are a pressure point for multiculturalism, as has been shown throughout the last two decades.

You want to dismiss the friction that arises from them. Fine. No worries.

I am not 'open borders' I don't believe I have ever met anyone who thinks flooding a small island with hundreds of thousands of people is a good idea!

Flooding anywhere isn't a good idea. Germany and France, are large nations with substantial populations, and they're struggling in dealing with multiculturalism.

I only care that they live a good, legal, happy life.
There's no need for the hysteria that is shown in this thread. I have no issue with people of any culture living in this country.

Hysteria. Another way to attempt to discredit or dismiss others viewpoints.

Have you noticed I haven't sought to discredit you? You might want to think on that for a moment. You have different experiences, which I disagree with, but you're entitled to that opinion, and also entitled to voice it. All the same, I don't appreciate the manner in which you do so. So, sure.. since you've decided to lower the tone of the discussion with phrases like obsessed and hysteria, I'll stop being respectful towards your opinions.

You reap what you sow. Which is the problem with Islam in Europe. Initially there are few issues, but over time, as the numbers increase, problems arise.

And there is no requirement, in my view, to prove why 'multiculturalism is a good thing'
It is what it is.

Grand. You've just shown you don't agree, or accept any of the objections on this thread, irrespective of the logic or references provided.

And it's not "it is what it is" because multiculturalism and the effects it has on countries is changing over time. Towards the negatives.. but sure, you want to pretend all is fine, and that the minority population will steer the majority towards being "good fine people". Bully for you.

In any case, I've said my piece, and you've shown you have zero respect for others opinions, so, I'll go back to avoiding your posts.

The_Kew_Tour

bubblypop wrote: »

And there is no requirement, in my view, to prove why 'multiculturalism is a good thing'
It is what it is.

The paragraph above says it all really.

At least this poster is honest enough to say that he can’t make a good point I guess.
.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The paragraph above says it all really.

At least this poster is honest enough to say that he can’t make a good point I guess.
.

Because there is no need to.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks there should be!

TomTomTim

bubblypop wrote: »

Because there is no need to.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks there should be!

The whole point of policies is that they work, or have a benefit. If they don't work they should not continue. I think you know that though, you're simply acting to justify your absurd position.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have you noticed I haven't sought to discredit you? You might want to think on that for a moment. You have different experiences, which I disagree with, but you're entitled to that opinion, and also entitled to voice it. All the same, I don't appreciate the manner in which you do so. So, sure.. since you've decided to lower the tone of the discussion with phrases like obsessed and hysteria, I'll stop being respectful towards your opinions. .

That's very sensitive of you, at no stage did I target you in any personal way. Unlike your posts to me where you presume that I know nothing about religion, that I have very little interaction with Muslim people.
Your posts are an attempt to shut me down. But I'm not interested in personal attacks.

Doctor Roast

bubblypop wrote: »

Because there is no need to.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks there should be!

Probably because people see the disaster it's turning out to be in other countries, we had a good opportunity here....

biko

Christian Ramadan starts today.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

That's very sensitive of you, at no stage did I target you in any personal way. Unlike your posts to me where you presume that I know nothing about religion, that I have very little interaction with Muslim people.
Your posts are an attempt to shut me down. But I'm not interested in personal attacks.

Deleted User wrote:

Likely, you have very limited experience of what such a religion would be like, unless you were born into something like the Jehova's witnesses, or another devout (hardline) sect.

Oh, yes.. I said that you know nothing about religion, or tried to shut you down... :rolleyes:

Also... there's not one personal attack in any of my posts directed at you.

Yellow_Fern

The diversity bandwagon is creating some nice jobs in the public sector https://www.universityvacancies.com/national-college-ireland/equality-diversity-inclusion-specialist-17057

Eric Cartman

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The diversity bandwagon is creating some nice jobs in the public sector https://www.universityvacancies.com/national-college-ireland/equality-diversity-inclusion-specialist-17057

The appointment will made to Senior Specialist/Supervisor salary band €40,600- €60,903 depending on experience

What in christs name... 40-60k a year to just scream at Irish men about how awful they are for existing.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

What in christs name... 40-60k a year to just scream at Irish men about how awful they are for existing.

What is wrong with encouraging and assisting people who may not normally attend third level, for a variety of reasons, attend and educate themselves?
The job is for someone to do just that.

Why would you have an issue with that?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

What is wrong with encouraging and assisting people who may not normally attend third level, for a variety of reasons, attend and educate themselves?
The job is for someone to do just that.

Why would you have an issue with that?

The position relates to taking care of existing students and staff. It's not for people external to the university, except possibly for conferences, press releases, etc. Unless you can quote the place that says what you're talking about? I couldn't see it.