What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Sand

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well,Holy God Sandy,just look at what's popped up in the Indo......

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0215/1197202-immigrant-council-conference/

Thanks for raising this. I'd have missed it otherwise. There is really a lot to digest here.

The theme of the conference is "Irish identity 100 years later", marking 100 years since the establishment of the Irish State.

Oh good. I as an Irish person, whose forefathers going back 12,000 years have been buried on this island need people who arrived here a few years back to tell me what Irish is. Because I was confused before.

Amanullah De Sondy said it was time for the Irish to outline what it means to be Irish.

He questioned why the diaspora is glorified when they have not "set foot in this country for years".

Mr De Sondy said he did not see the "big tent Irishness" that will take in all diversities and he said barriers needed to be broken down.

This is ultimately colonisation. Perhaps worse. The aborigines and native americans were never asked to redefine their sense of themselves to include settlers from England as being just as aborigine or just as cherokee as they were. They were able - in the face of huge dispossession and oppression - to maintain some sense of themselves as a distinct people. But the ethnic Irish are not given even that dignity. The Irish must not only surrender their territory to these people, but also to surrender their sense of themselves so that 'Irish' becomes so devalued and meaningless that anyone - literally anyone - can claim it.

And who is this man to demand the Irish sacrifice their identity to suit him and his interests? Is he willing to sacrifice his own identity? Nope. He is 'an unapologetic Muslim'. He has devoted his entire life to his ethnic identity as a Muslim. He is allegedly a Glaswegian, though I doubt that means anything to him. Is he willing to sacrifice his ethnic links to 'the old country'? Nope - the Pakistan embassy congratulated his appointment to UCC. On his twitter today (a cesspit of anti-European racial animus) he announced his plans to interview figures from Pakistan culture. Not Scotland. Pakistan. Why? Because he is part of the Pakistani diaspora and he draws his identity from that country of his ancestors.

And this guy demands that Irish identity is redefined and the Irish diaspora sacrificed to suit him? Let him cut off his own roots first. If he wont, why should we?

On the issue of Ireland's integration strategy and its funding, Ms Duku described €500,000 as an insult.

The chutzpah of these people.

Minister of State Joe O'Brien ... noted that migrants make up disproportionately large amounts of people in disadvantaged groups.

This is another example of the phenomenon I like to describe schrodinger's immigrant. From the point of view of mass migration advocates, migrants are simultaneously hugely disadvantaged, yet they are so economically productive they are going to pay our pensions. They are hugely discriminated against in Irish society, but at the same time they are completely integrated into Irish society. They are just as Irish as the Irish themselves, yet at the same time they have a distinct and different cultural identity which bring diversity to Ireland.

They are all these states simultaneously. They only take form in one state when the advocate for mass migration needs to take one position or the other for the advantage of their aim in an argument. Which is more and more and more migration into European countries.

Minister O'Brien confirmed that a national anti-racist plan will be published soon by Government.

Oh great. If there is anything the Irish people need from their government, it is a national anti-racist(Irish) plan.

Yellow_Fern

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

!

In Greece asylum seekers did burn a camp. I imagine the vast majority would never act that way but it only does take one person.

ThunbergsAreGo

Yurt! wrote: »

Just on the Syrian individual who went on hunger strike about his work permit. It was my understanding that Syrians are fast-tracked in the process for obvious reasons, unless something is off.

Why are we housing and feeding someone claiming asylum from an EU country now? Surely this isn't a thing.

One less place for a genuine asylum seeker

jmreire

Sand wrote: »

Thanks for raising this. I'd have missed it otherwise. There is really a lot to digest here.



Oh good. I as an Irish person, whose forefathers going back 12,000 years have been buried on this island need people who arrived here a few years back to tell me what Irish is. Because I was confused before.



This is ultimately colonisation. Perhaps worse. The aborigines and native americans were never asked to redefine their sense of themselves to include settlers from England as being just as aborigine or just as cherokee as they were. They were able - in the face of huge dispossession and oppression - to maintain some sense of themselves as a distinct people. But the ethnic Irish are not given even that dignity. The Irish must not only surrender their territory to these people, but also to surrender their sense of themselves so that 'Irish' becomes so devalued and meaningless that anyone - literally anyone - can claim it.

And who is this man to demand the Irish sacrifice their identity to suit him and his interests? Is he willing to sacrifice his own identity? Nope. He is 'an unapologetic Muslim'. He has devoted his entire life to his ethnic identity as a Muslim. He is allegedly a Glaswegian, though I doubt that means anything to him. Is he willing to sacrifice his ethnic links to 'the old country'? Nope - the Pakistan embassy congratulated his appointment to UCC. On his twitter today (a cesspit of anti-European racial animus) he announced his plans to interview figures from Pakistan culture. Not Scotland. Pakistan. Why? Because he is part of the Pakistani diaspora and he draws his identity from that country of his ancestors.

And this guy demands that Irish identity is redefined and the Irish diaspora sacrificed to suit him? Let him cut off his own roots first. If he wont, why should we?



The chutzpah of these people.



This is another example of the phenomenon I like to describe schrodinger's immigrant. From the point of view of mass migration advocates, migrants are simultaneously hugely disadvantaged, yet they are so economically productive they are going to pay our pensions. They are hugely discriminated against in Irish society, but at the same time they are completely integrated into Irish society. They are just as Irish as the Irish themselves, yet at the same time they have a distinct and different cultural identity which bring diversity to Ireland.

They are all these states simultaneously. They only take form in one state when the advocate for mass migration needs to take one position or the other for the advantage of their aim in an argument. Which is more and more and more migration into European countries.



Oh great. If there is anything the Irish people need from their government, it is a national anti-racist(Irish) plan.

Where is his equivalent Irish counterparts in Pakistan educating Pakistanis on what it means to be a Pakistani in 2021? And how they must change to help integrate foreigners, and especially non-muslim ones? An area in which a huge amount of work is required.

jmreire

Sand wrote: »

Thanks for raising this. I'd have missed it otherwise. There is really a lot to digest here.



Oh good. I as an Irish person, whose forefathers going back 12,000 years have been buried on this island need people who arrived here a few years back to tell me what Irish is. Because I was confused before.



This is ultimately colonisation. Perhaps worse. The aborigines and native americans were never asked to redefine their sense of themselves to include settlers from England as being just as aborigine or just as cherokee as they were. They were able - in the face of huge dispossession and oppression - to maintain some sense of themselves as a distinct people. But the ethnic Irish are not given even that dignity. The Irish must not only surrender their territory to these people, but also to surrender their sense of themselves so that 'Irish' becomes so devalued and meaningless that anyone - literally anyone - can claim it.

And who is this man to demand the Irish sacrifice their identity to suit him and his interests? Is he willing to sacrifice his own identity? Nope. He is 'an unapologetic Muslim'. He has devoted his entire life to his ethnic identity as a Muslim. He is allegedly a Glaswegian, though I doubt that means anything to him. Is he willing to sacrifice his ethnic links to 'the old country'? Nope - the Pakistan embassy congratulated his appointment to UCC. On his twitter today (a cesspit of anti-European racial animus) he announced his plans to interview figures from Pakistan culture. Not Scotland. Pakistan. Why? Because he is part of the Pakistani diaspora and he draws his identity from that country of his ancestors.

And this guy demands that Irish identity is redefined and the Irish diaspora sacrificed to suit him? Let him cut off his own roots first. If he wont, why should we?



The chutzpah of these people.



This is another example of the phenomenon I like to describe schrodinger's immigrant. From the point of view of mass migration advocates, migrants are simultaneously hugely disadvantaged, yet they are so economically productive they are going to pay our pensions. They are hugely discriminated against in Irish society, but at the same time they are completely integrated into Irish society. They are just as Irish as the Irish themselves, yet at the same time they have a distinct and different cultural identity which bring diversity to Ireland.

They are all these states simultaneously. They only take form in one state when the advocate for mass migration needs to take one position or the other for the advantage of their aim in an argument. Which is more and more and more migration into European countries.



Oh great. If there is anything the Irish people need from their government, it is a national anti-racist(Irish) plan.

Where is his equivalent Irish counterparts in Pakistan educating Pakistanis on what it means to be a Pakistani in 2021? And how they must change to help integrate foreigners, and especially non-muslim ones? An area in which a huge amount of work is required.

RobbieTheRobber

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

In Greece asylum seekers did burn a camp. I imagine the vast majority would never act that way but it only does take one person.

Someone else done something else somewhere else, so that makes it ok to throw around wild suggestions of illegal activity that have in fact not taken place.
You see no problem with posts like that?

People have committed racist assaults and murders, does that mean you are a racist murderer just waiting to happen?

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

Oh good. I as an Irish person, whose forefathers going back 12,000 years have been buried on this island need people who arrived here a few years back to tell me what Irish is. Because I was confused before.

How dare you. We've always been "diverse" and "multicultural". Pity it was always on the back of conflict and colonisation and yet even then we're one of the least genetically diverse nations in Europe.

The chutzpah of these people.

It's just as much, actually it's more the insecurity and weakness and fear of European governments and policy around any sense of national identities and that has trickled down to much of the populace. Try that stuff in any non western nation who aren't so insecure and are proud of their cultural and cultural heritage and you'd get a very different reaction. As you note he's far more proud of and attached to his Pakistani heritage and fair enough. He only gets away with doubling down on that in a foreign nation, because of the lack of pushback. An Irish Christian trying that stuff in Pakistan... Well we know the answer to that.

This is another example of the phenomenon I like to describe schrodinger's immigrant. From the point of view of mass migration advocates, migrants are simultaneously hugely disadvantaged, yet they are so economically productive they are going to pay our pensions. They are hugely discriminated against in Irish society, but at the same time they are completely integrated into Irish society. They are just as Irish as the Irish themselves, yet at the same time they have a distinct and different cultural identity which bring diversity to Ireland.

They are all these states simultaneously. They only take form in one state when the advocate for mass migration needs to take one position or the other for the advantage of their aim in an argument. Which is more and more and more migration into European countries.

Yep. This is a consistent feature of this politic masquerading as charity and exoticism. It's one of the biggest problems I have with it.

My first post on the thread wrote: »

I also object to the notion that only White nations and cultures seem to require this "cultural diversity". The same voices lauding and pushing for multiculturalism would never in a million years suggest the problem with non White cultures and nations is that they don't have enough White people and should import more.

The suggestion that any non European nation is lacking because of a lack of diversity of pale faces would have the same advocates for multiculturalism look at you in amazement, or horror at such a silly statement.

Oh great. If there is anything the Irish people need from their government, it is a national anti-racist(Irish) plan.

Indeed, but they're just following the decades long playbook of our European neighbours who are decades into this politic. It's desperate window dressing for a set of seemingly intractable problems with this politic and social experiment.

Doctor Roast

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

In Greece asylum seekers did burn a camp. I imagine the vast majority would never act that way but it only does take one person.

And in Bosnia...

Patrick2010

Interesting PR piece on Ellie Kisyombe in today’s Indo about how she’s enjoying her own home in Dublin now after 10 years in DP. No mention of her time in England of course.
She fled Malawi but still felt ok to go back to visit.
Also an ad for her sauces.

rgossip30

Muslims attending a mosque during lockdown , one rule for citizens another for muslims equality irish style !!

https://theliberal.ie/too-busy-dancing-uproar-on-social-media-as-gardai-fail-to-respond-to-concerned-citizens-who-phoned-them-12-times-after-up-to-100-muslims-gathered-for-friday-prayers/

Eric Cartman

rgossip30 wrote: »

Muslims attending a mosque during lockdown , one rule for citizens another for muslims equality irish style !!

https://theliberal.ie/too-busy-dancing-uproar-on-social-media-as-gardai-fail-to-respond-to-concerned-citizens-who-phoned-them-12-times-after-up-to-100-muslims-gathered-for-friday-prayers/

An absolute disgrace, if theres any sense of equality in our covid rules gardai will wait till next week and fine every person entering that mosque and the mosque itself.

Talk about selfish and dangerous behaviour un-necessarily gathering like that.

kildare lad

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Interesting PR piece on Ellie Kisyombe in today’s Indo about how she’s enjoying her own home in Dublin now after 10 years in DP. No mention of her time in England of course.
She fled Malawi but still felt ok to go back to visit.
Also an ad for her sauces.

What are you complaining about ??? she'll be paying for our pensions in a few years time . We'll all be rolling in it due to their massive tax contributions to the exchequer....

conorhal

Yurt! wrote: »

Just on the Syrian individual who went on hunger strike about his work permit. It was my understanding that Syrians are fast-tracked in the process for obvious reasons, unless something is off.

Well, this article gives a little hint at the issue at hand. Without saying as much, and reading between the lines, the guy has already either applied for or has been granted asylum in another EU country.

If so, sorry bud, you're asylum shopping. I can understand why the Department has taken the stance they have taken.

"However, a spokesperson has said there may be a number of reasons why the Minister for Justice and local TD Helen McEntee is not be in a position to approve a work permit for a person living in direct provision, including where "the applicant has previously made an asylum application in another EU member state or that another member state has already granted that person an international protection status."

https://www.lmfm.ie/news/lmfm-news/mosney-resident-will-continue-hunger-strike-to-death-unless-given-right-to-work/

Edit: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/syrian-man-ends-hunger-strike-over-refusal-of-work-permit-40049740.html

Yes indeed, he was granted asylum in Germany. Claims he was threatened in Germany and came to Ireland.

Even if that was so, there is a competent police force in Germany to deal with any issues that would arise. He's effectively trying to double-claim asylum from Syria (I have sympathy for that) and Germany (no sympathy). My own instinct is he wasn't arsed learning German and found the German employment system cumbersome - which is true for everyone; you need a practicum to fart sideways there. Still, not our problem. Germany is an outstanding place to live once you get stuck-in and play ball. This man is not our responsibility and he has no particular right to access our labour market, especially during these uncertain times where many Irish will find themselves out of work for years to come.

Wait..what?
Are you telling me that we are now accepting asylum seekers fleeing Germany from the oppressive and dictatorial regime of... Angela Merkel?

Absolute clown world stuff, why is this guy not on the first flight back to Berlin?

jmreire

Eric Cartman wrote: »

An absolute disgrace, if theres any sense of equality in our covid rules gardai will wait till next week and fine every person entering that mosque and the mosque itself.

Talk about selfish and dangerous behaviour un-necessarily gathering like that.

A few pages back, I made the comment that you can take the Muslim from any Islamic Country in the world, but you cannot take the Islam from the Muslim. I pointed out that Islam and Sharia law rules their lives, even above national laws. So while in the main, they obey national laws, when it contradicts Sharia, the Sharia will always win out. if any confirmation of what I said was needed, this is it. In fact, one of the biggest superspreading events in Iran happened when the Ayatollahs refused to ban pilgrimages to the Shrine of Ali Hossein. So in all things, Islam come first , last and in the middle for practising Muslims.

RobbieTheRobber

kildare lad wrote: »

What are you complaining about ??? she'll be paying for our pensions in a few years time . We'll all be rolling in it due to their massive tax contributions to the exchequer....

It's a stupid fluff piece in the indo, I'm sorry I searched it out to read it. Thats two minutes of my time sat on the toilet I won't get back.

But what are you so upset about the article for?

RobbieTheRobber

rgossip30 wrote: »

Muslims attending a mosque during lockdown , one rule for citizens another for muslims equality irish style !!

https://theliberal.ie/too-busy-dancing-uproar-on-social-media-as-gardai-fail-to-respond-to-concerned-citizens-who-phoned-them-12-times-after-up-to-100-muslims-gathered-for-friday-prayers/

I agree the Garda should to this breach of the current public health rules. I hope the residents make formal complaints to the garda about the failure to respond to this.

Arthur Daley

kildare lad wrote: »

What are you complaining about ??? she'll be paying for our pensions in a few years time . We'll all be rolling in it due to their massive tax contributions to the exchequer....

Can't wait for the readies to come rollin in. Any day now

kildare lad

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

It's a stupid fluff piece in the indo, I'm sorry I searched it out to read it. Thats two minutes of my time sat on the toilet I won't get back.

But what are you so upset about the article for?

I'm not upset , it's just annoying when you hear the pro diversity and immigration crowd put out a false narrative about migrants paying our pensions , a 40% employment rate in low paying jobs isn't going to pay for jack shxt. I worked in a low paying job during the resession and you pay little or no tax. Now if I'd 4 or 5 kids , rent allowance or HAP , medical card and a partner on unemployment benefit or both partners on unemployment benefits theyre a financial black hole . Ive a house I can't afford to live in because I bought at the wrong time. I've friends who' re paying massive rents for apartments , I've another mate whose paving 700 quid a month to rent a room in someone's house , and yet the government are giving houses to people that have contributed nothing to the economy.

I've cousins and friends who're in Canadian , New Zealand and Australia who left here during the resession , all paying their way and contributing to them countries . They didn't arrive there expecting housing , money and handouts like they do here.


A lot of migrants obliviously contribute, Ive worked with plenty over the years. But because they're from eastern European they don't come into the this forced diversity narrative because they're white . Again I've no problem with migrants that want to come here ,work and contribute to society . I've no time for people who come here just to ride us and tell us how racist we all are , while we house them and pay for their large families .

Social issues are not a reflection on migrants
They are a reflection on government policies, which do not encourage people to work and instead make it more attractive to rely on handouts.

kildare lad

bubblypop wrote: »

Social issues are not a reflection on migrants
They are a reflection on government policies, which do not encourage people to work and instead make it more attractive to rely on handouts.

It is reflection on them if they choose to ride the system and contribute nothing .

Eric Cartman

bubblypop wrote: »

Social issues are not a reflection on migrants
They are a reflection on government policies, which do not encourage people to work and instead make it more attractive to rely on handouts.

Yes we should reduce handouts to make them less attractive to migrants, agree with you 100%

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Yes we should reduce handouts to make them less attractive to migrants, agree with you 100%

I think you know, they should be less attractive for everybody!!

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

It is reflection on them if they choose to ride the system and contribute nothing .

It doesn't matter.
If the system didn't allow it, it wouldn't happen.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Social issues are not a reflection on migrants
They are a reflection on government policies, which do not encourage people to work and instead make it more attractive to rely on handouts.

OK if we look at Ireland in isolation it sounds like a logical enough explanation to draw and one that's wheeled out over differences in how some demographics do better than others and especially why some do worse.

Fine. However can you point to any multicultural nation in the Western world, all of which can have quite different histories, native cultures, government policies and social welfare provisons from extensive to very little and show me a single example where social issues and different demographics don't follow the exact same narratives. Point to one where those of East Asian origin don't do as well as those of African origin. Pick one where those of Indian origin don't do as well as those of Pakistani origin. Racism in the White native populations? Certainly a factor, but doesn't account for the fact that Sikhs do better on average than Muslims from the Subcontinent or Indians do better on average than Pakistanis. The same "race". I'm quite sure a nazi skinhead can't tell the difference.

Arthur Daley

Either mass numbers of migrants come into a country and pay no tax, or they come and take all the high tax, and thus high paying jobs. Either way the borders are not respected and the indigenous are screwed v previous generations.

Look at London, and learn.

RobbieTheRobber

kildare lad wrote: »

I'm not upset , it's just annoying when you hear the pro diversity and immigration crowd put out a false narrative about migrants paying our pensions , a 40% employment rate in low paying jobs isn't going to pay for jack shxt. I worked in a low paying job during the resession and you pay little or no tax. Now if I'd 4 or 5 kids , rent allowance or HAP , medical card and a partner on unemployment benefit or both partners on unemployment benefits theyre a financial black hole . Ive a house I can't afford to live in because I bought at the wrong time. I've friends who' re paying massive rents for apartments , I've another mate whose paving 700 quid a month to rent a room in someone's house , and yet the government are giving houses to people that have contributed nothing to the economy.

I've cousins and friends who're in Canadian , New Zealand and Australia who left here during the resession , all paying their way and contributing to them countries . They didn't arrive there expecting housing , money and handouts like they do here.


A lot of migrants obliviously contribute, Ive worked with plenty over the years. But because they're from eastern European they don't come into the this forced diversity narrative because they're white . Again I've no problem with migrants that want to come here ,work and contribute to society . I've no time for people who come here just to ride us and tell us how racist we all are , while we house them and pay for their large families .

Did we read different articles from the indo. I don't see any of those points in the one I read. Maybe you can link me the article you read.

Eric Cartman

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Either mass numbers of migrants come into a country and pay no tax, or they come and take all the high tax, and thus high paying jobs. Either way the borders are not respected and the indigenous are screwed v previous generations.

Look at London, and learn.

Our high tax rates are not attracting those migrants taking high paying jobs. Non EU migration has always had and will continue to have a negative impact on Ireland economically. The more we allow in the more of a burden on the state they become. We will never solve our impending pensions crisis with non EU migrants and if anything we are bringing the crisis closer to us

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

Fine. However can you point to any multicultural nation in the Western world, all of which can have quite different histories, native cultures, government policies and social welfare provisons from extensive to very little and show me a single example where social issues and different demographics don't follow the exact same narratives. Point to one where those of East Asian origin don't do as well as those of African origin. Pick one where those of Indian origin don't do as well as those of Pakistani origin. Racism in the White native populations? Certainly a factor, but doesn't account for the fact that Sikhs do better on average than Muslims from the Subcontinent or Indians do better on average than Pakistanis. The same "race". I'm quite sure a nazi skinhead can't tell the difference.

Can you show me any country in the world where there aren't social issues.
It seems like you are trying to paint all social issues as the fault of immigrants always. So I assume you can show me a country that has no immigrants and no social issues.

kildare lad

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Did we read different articles from the indo. I don't see any of those points in the one I read. Maybe you can link me the article you read.

I don't read the indo, I've enough toilet paper in the house .

Arthur Daley

Sometimes I do wonder does anybody tell the migrants 'you're here to pay for our pensions'. And are the migrants fully on board with this plan.

Which for most, automatically implies a life as a tax mule with high accomodation costs to boot. All so us elders, and a few fat cats, can be kept in the style to which we are accustomed.