What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ExMachina1000

Cordell wrote: »

How can the airline be held responsible if the migrants dump their passports while in flight, as there is no further check after boarding?

All passports scanned before boarding should be automatically digitally copied and stored as part of the flight manifesto.

Well you had one getting on buddy, heres the copy to prove it. If you shredded it on the flight we are detaining you under the suspicion of attempted immigration fraud.

golondrinas

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Holding location at the airport seems an absolute no brainer, or a no passport no entry stance.

Or they play the old “ we can’t send them back we don’t know where they came from “ line. Just return them on the plane they came in on, and fine the airline.

flazio

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

All passports scanned before boarding should be automatically digitally copied and stored as part of the flight manifesto.

Well you had one getting on buddy, heres the copy to prove it. If you shredded it on the flight we are detaining you under the suspicion of attempted immigration fraud.

Is that legal? And if not how hard would it be to make it legal?

Yellow_Fern

flazio wrote: »

Is that legal? And if not how hard would it be to make it legal?

I dont know if any countries do this but all airlines are going to have a copy of your ID saved on their system.

jmreire

flazio wrote: »

Is that legal? And if not how hard would it be to make it legal?

Well for a start, electronically copying your passport details is mandatory before you will be issued with a ticket, and thats before you even get on the plane. So you are already on file. I'd imagine that visa details are copied as well, if only to protect the airline against fines for carrying non visa passengers?. How hard would it be to back track the details of some one who turns up at passport control, claiming ti have lost his / her passport? In an age when even the boarding pass carrys not only the passengers name etc, but also seat Nr? This should not be a big problem to solve.

DelaneyIn

So basically the Immigrant Council was facilitating human trafficking into Ireland, and we fund them hundreds of thousands in tax payers euros every year ?

Cordell

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

All passports scanned before boarding should be automatically digitally copied and stored as part of the flight manifesto.

Well you had one getting on buddy, heres the copy to prove it. If you shredded it on the flight we are detaining you under the suspicion of attempted immigration fraud.

Of course, but my point was that it's not the airline that is responsible for this. No person should be allowed to cross the border without proper papers, and if that means keeping them detained indefinitely until their identity is verified so be it. And if they ditch the passport and claim asylum it's clear they're not doing it in good faith and they should be not only be rejected, but not even considered.

But I don't think this kind of illegal migration account for any significant number.

biko

Many asylum seekers are from safe countries.

Hundreds of South Africans have applied for asylum in the Republic of Ireland over the last year.

According to data supplied to BusinessTech by Ireland’s Department of Justice and Equality, from 1 August 2018 to 31 July 2019 just over 300 South Africans applied for international protection (IP).

What makes this unusual, is that South Africa is considered a ‘safe country’, with the Irish government deeming it to be a stable and safe democracy.

The Irish Times reported that as many as 41% of all asylum claims in the first half of the year were from Albanian, Georgian and South African nationals – all deemed “safe countries of origin” by Ireland.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/336423/south-africans-are-applying-for-asylum-in-ireland/

flazio

Not trying to undermine your point, just asking the question, is there a difference between seeking asylum and seeking political asylum? Like could an American seek asylum here if they were trying to escape from a drug cartel?

biko

I doubt it. Our asylum process was created with war and persecution in mind.
Now it seems to be used mainly for economic reasons.

Asylum seeker
An asylum seeker is an individual who is seeking international protection. In countries with individualised procedures, an asylum seeker is someone whose claim has not yet been finally decided on by the country in which he or she has submitted it. Not every asylum seeker will ultimately be recognised as a refugee, but every refugee is initially an asylum seeker.

Refugee
A refugee is a person who has fled their country of origin and is unable or unwilling to return because of a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

Economic migrant
An economic migrant is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. Therefore they do not fall within the criteria for refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection.

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

I doubt it. Our asylum process was created with war and persecution in mind.
Now it seems to be used mainly for economic reasons.

Asylum seeker
An asylum seeker is an individual who is seeking international protection. In countries with individualised procedures, an asylum seeker is someone whose claim has not yet been finally decided on by the country in which he or she has submitted it. Not every asylum seeker will ultimately be recognised as a refugee, but every refugee is initially an asylum seeker.

Refugee
A refugee is a person who has fled their country of origin and is unable or unwilling to return because of a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

Economic migrant
An economic migrant is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial and/or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. Therefore they do not fall within the criteria for refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection.

the problem with most immigration / asylum treaties, agreements and standards is that they pre-date the bloated welfare states europe started funding in the 70s and certainly were never equipped to deal with the golden ticket cradle to grave free ride we give anyone who lands at the end of the rainbow in Ireland.

The whole system needs to be overhauled to filter out those coming here to live off the state.

biko

Mohammad increasingly popular.

UK
Oliver held its position as the most popular boys' name since 2013, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
But while Oliver topped the 2017 list with 6,259 babies - if we combine 14 different spellings of Muhammad it's 7,307 babies.

Sweden
The name Mohamed is now the second most popular name for newborn boys in the Swedish city of Gothenburg and the third most popular in multicultural Malmö.

Norway
Mohammed most common men's name in Oslo
Although Mohammed - with various spellings - has been the favourite name for baby boys in Oslo for the past four years, this is the first time it has also topped the men's list.

Ireland
Muhammad is fastest growing boys’ name in Ireland and is up 36 places in just one year


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/muhammad-fastest-growing-boys-name-10535640

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45638806

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-28982803

Gunmonkey

DelaneyIn wrote: »

So basically the Immigrant Council was facilitating human trafficking into Ireland, and we fund them hundreds of thousands in tax payers euros every year ?

Its kinda hand-wavey right now. If she brought him over using the Immigrant Council to secure his visa as an "IT specialist" and he is now running round working as a taxi driver, very possibly.

If she did it on her own then its eyebrow raising on the IC in a "Ugh...these are the kinds of people who set this up! What else might they be at?" but the IC might not be part of it.

biko

biko wrote: »

Mohammad increasingly popular.

UK
Oliver held its position as the most popular boys' name since 2013, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
But while Oliver topped the 2017 list with 6,259 babies - if we combine 14 different spellings of Muhammad it's 7,307 babies.

Sweden
The name Mohamed is now the second most popular name for newborn boys in the Swedish city of Gothenburg and the third most popular in multicultural Malmö.

Norway
Mohammed most common men's name in Oslo
Although Mohammed - with various spellings - has been the favourite name for baby boys in Oslo for the past four years, this is the first time it has also topped the men's list.

Ireland
Muhammad is fastest growing boys’ name in Ireland and is up 36 places in just one year


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/muhammad-fastest-growing-boys-name-10535640

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45638806

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-28982803

Now, that's interesting.. never thought to consider the names being chosen as an indication of multiculturalism/immigration.

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

Mohammad increasingly popular.

UK
Oliver held its position as the most popular boys' name since 2013, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
But while Oliver topped the 2017 list with 6,259 babies - if we combine 14 different spellings of Muhammad it's 7,307 babies.

Sweden
The name Mohamed is now the second most popular name for newborn boys in the Swedish city of Gothenburg and the third most popular in multicultural Malmö.

Norway
Mohammed most common men's name in Oslo
Although Mohammed - with various spellings - has been the favourite name for baby boys in Oslo for the past four years, this is the first time it has also topped the men's list.

Ireland
Muhammad is fastest growing boys’ name in Ireland and is up 36 places in just one year


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/muhammad-fastest-growing-boys-name-10535640

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45638806

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-28982803

frightening.

flazio

Important context. It's now the 83rd most popular name. Which means there are 82 other names, which could be picked from anything from the late grandfather to the mother's favourite actor/boyband member, that are more popular then Moe.
Just a quick glance at more popular names. Luca, Archie, Leon, Mason, I don't even know how to pronounce Senan correctly yet there'll be more of them enrolling in local schools.

biko

Nothing to worry about.
We see clearly how well Mohammads have integrated into French, English, Swedish and other cultures in the last 20 years.
There is zero risk the Mohammads reject our culture and instead impose their own with separate rules for men and women, honour killings, etc.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

frightening.

How exactly is that frightening?

flazio

biko wrote: »

Nothing to worry about.
We see clearly how well Mohammads have integrated into French, English, Swedish and other cultures in the last 20 years.
There is zero risk the Mohammads reject our culture and instead impose their own with separate rules for men and women, honour killings, etc.

Really? It's OK to racially stereotype someone on the name their parents gave them?
Guess what the Mo in Mo Salah and Mo Farah is short for?

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

How exactly is that frightening?

That is some years time Mohammed will be more common than Paddy is not a concern for you?

biko

flazio wrote: »

Really? It's OK to racially stereotype someone on the name their parents gave them?
Guess what the Mo in Mo Salah and Mo Farah is short for?

Moped?

flazio

biko wrote: »

Moped?

No, Adolf.

biko

biko wrote: »

That is some years time Mohammed will be more common than Paddy is not a concern for you?

Nope.
Paddy isn't a very common name among younger people anyway.

biko

flazio wrote: »

No, Adolf.

Mo is short for Adolf?
What a strange name - Adolf Salah and Adolf Farah. But hey, if you say so.

TomTomTim

I'd would be a interesting experiment to get the European hard right to all covert to Islam. The likes bubblypop wouldn't have a clue how to react as all their enemies would now be under the banner of a ideology that they love to defend.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'd would be a interesting experiment to get the European hard right to all covert to Islam. The likes bubblypop wouldn't have a clue how to react as all their enemies would now be under the banner of a ideology that they love to defend.

I don't have enemies and I don't live to defend any ideology.
You seem to have me all wrong

Eric Cartman

bubblypop wrote: »

How exactly is that frightening?

so Ireland is still just about finishing the throwing off of the catholic shackles which caused a lot of pain and suffering to many here. I think we can all agree that Ireland was a darker place in the past because of this.

so now imagine if all indicators pointed to a massive rise in support for an even more conservative form of Catholicism, knowing what happened in the past would that not make you want to avoid a doubled down version of that in the future.

biko

TomTomTim wrote: »

I'd would be a interesting experiment to get the European hard right to all covert to Islam. The likes bubblypop wouldn't have a clue how to react as all their enemies would now be under the banner of a ideology that they love to defend.

The odd thing is that Islam is extremely conservative and anti-feminist.
Feminists in Iran and other places are jailed and worse.
But in western countries this ideology, that even cooperated with the Nazis, is welcomed by some.

Right now in Ireland many Muslims would have a problem with someone being gay.

flazio

So by implementing extreme conservative policies on people's rights to move here, we keep extreme conservatism out of the country?

Makes sense.

TomTomTim

biko wrote: »

The odd thing is that Islam is extremely conservative and anti-feminist.
Feminists in Iran and other places are jailed and worse.
But in western countries this ideology, that even cooperated with the Nazis, is welcomed by some.

Right now in Ireland many Muslims would have a problem with someone being gay.

Exactly my point. The beliefs of the hard right and Islam aren't too different, yet "progressives" rabidly defend the later, while constantly condemning the former.