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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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    #6662
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And.. I grew up in Athlone in the 70s/80s, and spent a fair bit of time in both Longford, Mullingar, and Roscommon. Later, I lived in Tipperary, and Limerick.

    Plenty of experience with Travellers throughout my youth and adulthood. Most of it was actually quite neutral since my family (as teachers) were well respected by most of them. Went to school with them, had my share of fights with them, and got pissed drunk/stoned with a variety of them. I've also taught them, myself, as part of adult literacy courses. Some are great, many are little different from other Irish people, and quite a few should never be allowed outside of a jail cell.

    I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make... beyond perhaps the suggestion that since some are fine, the remainder shouldn't be judged? That we should simply support that culture because some turned out okay, in spite of all the odds stacked against them in doing so?

    As a culture, Traveller culture shouldn't be supported, and should be allowed to fade away, because without government supports, it's simply not viable for success in a modern nation. As a people, Travellers themselves, should be encouraged to move away from that culture and embrace the same modern culture we all live in... again.. without the expectation that others will continue to bail them out for their chosen lifestyle. (I know a few successful Travellers who have split from the pack.. so there is a choice involved, and they're not completely stuck in living a certain way).


    if traveller culture was encouraged to fade away , a good few QUangocrats would be out of a job , never mind the number of professional finger waggers who would no longer have the opportunity to lecture middle ireland about how racist we all are

    travellers are an important branch of the victim industry hustler sector


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    #6663
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    If I go on holiday to Spain and get a tan am I a different person?

    You are different to a pale person yes, you have a tan.


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    #6664
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You cannot leave what you are born into. You know that.
    It's not a group meeting at the scout hall. If you are born a traveller, then you are a traveller. No matter what you do in life.
    Whether they get educated and settle down with a job, or stay living in a halting site, they are still travellers.

    travellers are only a different race within a political and cultural context , its not like a nigerian choosing to be no longer african or at least black


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    #6665
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    yaknowski wrote: »
    Tis ulitmately about cheap labour for business isn't it. Drove down to McDonalds for some breakfast. Three Mid-40s South-Asian lads sitting outside in their cars waiting for delivery.
    Good luck to them earning a crust, but really it's only for big business' benefit and the taxpayer is on the hook for the rest of the costs associated with living here.

    What's insulting to everyone is that they started off on this by claiming that the mass migration of people was necessary to pay pensions. How is delivering McDonalds etc. going to pay for our pensions.


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    #6666
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    From your wiki link

    'The centuries of separation has led to Travellers becoming genetically distinct from the settled Irish.'
    Genetically distinct? I'm involved in Genetic projects showing my genes are highly similar to others on the same family name and tree which diverged many, many generations ago even prior to Travellers becoming nomadic people.
    My Clan name would be found amongst Travellers but isn't one of the more common names you'd associate with them.
    So the statement 'The centuries of separation has led to Travellers becoming genetically distinct from the settled Irish.' is complete and utter b*ll**** with no grounding in fact.


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    #6667
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    travellers are only a different race within a political and cultural context , its not like a nigerian choosing to be no longer african or at least black

    https://www.thejournal.ie/traveller-community-study-rcsi-3231070-Feb2017/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/travellers-as-genetically-different-from-settled-irish-as-spanish-1.2969515


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    #6668
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/traveller-community-study-rcsi-3231070-Feb2017/

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/travellers-as-genetically-different-from-settled-irish-as-spanish-1.2969515
    No they're not. If they have an Irish Clan name they are not even if they have a handful of oddballs within their number.


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    #6669
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    If I go on holiday to Spain and get a tan am I a different person?

    Nope.

    Now, consider the context of Bubblypops posts, and my own responses for the last two pages. Rather than giving examples, and details that have no bearing on the discussion.

    Although, if you're interested in continuing the infantile understanding that's happened so far, count me out.


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    #6670
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No they're not. If they have an Irish Clan name they are not even if they have a handful of oddballs within their number.

    You better tell these guys then, Prof Gianpiero Cavalleri, who conducted the study with colleagues at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the University of Edinburgh.


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    #6671
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You better tell these guys then, Prof Gianpiero Cavalleri, who conducted the study with colleagues at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the University of Edinburgh.
    If they are called O'Donovan as an example and many of them are then they are descended from one of the septs of the O'Donovan Clan. It is as simple as that.


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    #6672
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If they are called O'Donovan as an example and many of them are then they are descended from one of the septs of the O'Donovan Clan. It is as simple as that.

    I said it elsewhere, but both sides of my family, who come from Donegal, share surnames with traveller families. I'm sure there has to be some connection, as I doubt it's a pure coincidence that we share the same surnames.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #6673
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nope.

    Now, consider the context of Bubblypops posts, and my own responses for the last two pages. Rather than giving examples, and details that have no bearing on the discussion.

    Although, if you're interested in continuing the infantile understanding that's happened so far, count me out.

    Are you calling me infantile?


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    #6674
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I said it elsewhere, but both sides of my family, who come from Donegal, share surnames with traveller families. I'm sure there has to be some connection, as I doubt it's a pure coincidence that we share the same surnames.
    If you are Irish then you've got a Clan name not a conventional surname. If you and someone else have the same name then your yDNA will probably match you with them through a common male ancestor even though the family tree diverged maybe a millennium ago.
    This is not theory. This is fact. Many people who know their surnames but don't have documentation are using their DNA to determine where exactly in Ireland they originate from. With a strong match you can home in to a specific townland.

    I find the claims that Travellers are genetically distinct from the rest of the Irish as an insult to Science.


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    #6675
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you are Irish then you've got a Clan name not a conventional surname.

    I'm Irish and I have no clan name so shut the fúck up.
    I can trace my heritage as far back as limited Irish records go but it is no "Clan name" and I take very serious offence at your claims I'm not Irish


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    #6676
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I find the claims that Travellers are genetically distinct from the rest of the Irish as an insult to Science.

    Again, you should tell these guys,
    Prof Gianpiero Cavalleri, who conducted the study with colleagues at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the University of Edinburgh.


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    #6677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Are ya now or are you just a blow in and new to the parish for the last couple of hundred years?


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    #6678
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Again, you should tell these guys,
    Prof Gianpiero Cavalleri, who conducted the study with colleagues at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the University of Edinburgh.
    Why would I bother try to reach out to someone who is pushing blatantly incorrect information or information which they are happy to allow to be misinterpreted by others.


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    #6679
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are ya now or are you just a blow in and new to the parish for the last couple of hundred years?

    Are you saying I'm not Irish?
    My birth cert and that of all my line as far back as Irish records go says I'm Irish so just shut the fúck up with your actual shít talk!

    A name is a collection of letters nothing more!


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    #6680
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    It' easy to see that Travellers have genetically split from the general Irish population.
    They have been marrying other travellers and their cousins for generations which keep their genepool small and getting smaller.

    Up to 40 per cent of all marriages involving Travellers are between first cousins.
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/almost-two-in-every-five-traveller-marriages-are-between-cousins-26231063.html


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    #6681
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Are you saying I'm not Irish?
    My birth cert and that of all my line as far back as Irish records go says I'm Irish so just shut the fúck up with your actual shít talk!

    A name is a collection of letters nothing more!
    There are multiple genetic projects ongoing for various family names. If you want to stop cursing at me and submit your DNA to some of them you should be able to determine which part of the country you originate from e.g. Cashel or up north associated with the O'Neills.
    You can't care that much if you haven't bothered to compare your DNA to any of these various DNA projects. It isn't that expensive and you can make a best guess as to where you think you come from to narrow it down and cost less.
    If these results are good enough for the FBI to steal their data they should be good enough for you.


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    #6682
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    It' easy to see that Travellers have genetically split from the general Irish population.
    They have been marrying other travellers and their cousins for generations which keep their genepool small and getting smaller.

    Up to 40 per cent of all marriages involving Travellers are between first cousins.
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/almost-two-in-every-five-traveller-marriages-are-between-cousins-26231063.html
    That is like saying a Manx cat isn't a house cat. It may be breeding generation after generation in Isolation but breeding outside of its genepool would do it a power of good.


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    #6683
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are multiple genetic projects ongoing for various family names. If you want to stop cursing at me and submit your DNA to some of them you should be able to determine which part of the country you originate from e.g. Cashel or up north associated with the O'Neills.
    You can't care that much if you haven't bothered to compare your DNA to any of these various DNA projects. It isn't that expensive and you can make a best guess as to where you think you come from to narrow it down and cost less.
    If these results are good enough for the FBI to steal their data they should be good enough for you.

    You said if your Irish you have a clan name. I do not. Am I Irish and was your statement false?


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    #6684
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    You said if your Irish you have a clan name. I do not. Am I Irish and was your statement false?
    You have admitted that your given surname is a collection of letters. If you are Irish then somebody in history cast aside their clan name. Do you care to find out where you originate from. The tools are there to do it.


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    #6685
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Sometimes I do wonder does anybody tell the migrants 'you're here to pay for our pensions'. And are the migrants fully on board with this plan.

    It's long been a pillar of multiculturalists promotion of mass immigration that "immigrants will pay for our pensions" here's the Indo promoting it, and here, of course, is the Guardian. It is also a perennial favorite of NGO "studies" that always show a miraculous end to the pension shortfall, if only we would let everyone in.

    It is a fallacy, and an obvious one. If you import more people, who will pay for their pensions? Import even more? And who will pay for theirs? and so on, and so on, ad infinitum.
    That's even before you dig into the economics of getting mostly lower-paid or unemployed people, who statistically need more supports of every kind, to pay for the pensions of mostly higher-paid retired people. Even the wildly pro-immigration EU discovered that “Replacement immigration does not offer a feasible solution to the problem of population ageing" when they studied it.
    The "we need immigrants to pay for our pensions" fiction is like all the other fictions used to justify mass immigration - a paper-thin lie, used to blind the easily lead.


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    #6686
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That is like saying a Manx cat isn't a house cat. It may be breeding generation after generation in Isolation but breeding outside of its genepool would do it a power of good.
    It's a development thing. Peoples in MENA also marry their cousins with potential catastrophic results.

    Marriage between first cousins more than doubles the chance of having a baby with potentially life-threatening birth defects.
    That's why most western countries gave it up over a hundred year ago, and even if it's legal some places still it's very much frowned upon.


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    #6687
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You have admitted that your given surname is a collection of letters. If you are Irish then somebody in history cast aside their clan name. Do you care to find out where you originate from. The tools are there to do it.

    I said all names are a collection of letters. not mine ALL


    My name is not an Irish clan name it has been written in recorded Irish records for the past several hundred years. Did it originate here most likely not.
    Does that make me less Irish?


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    #6688
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    biko wrote: »
    It's a development thing. Peoples in MENA also marry their cousins with potential catastrophic results.

    Marriage between first cousins more than doubles the chance of having a baby with potentially life-threatening birth defects.
    That's why most western countries gave it up over a hundred year ago, and even if it's legal some places still it's very much frowned upon.

    20 states in the USA allow marriage between first cousins.
    3 more allow it if the people getting married are over 55 or 65 depending on the state. That country really is a **** hole


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    #6689
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    It's a development thing. Peoples in MENA also marry their cousins with catastrophic results.

    Marriage between first cousins more than doubles the chance of having a baby with potentially life-threatening birth defects.
    That's why most western countries gave it up over a hundred year ago, and even if it's legal some places still it's very much frowned upon.
    I know this for a fact. The city I live in is a Medical tourism city. The wealthy middle eastern patients have no healthcare system in their home countries because they won't pay taxes to provide it, they marry cousins to keep the wealth in the family and they visit here to tend to all their health problems associated with being inbred. The really wealthy ones send their private airplanes here to bring specialists from here to the middle east to care for them a couple of times a year. My neighbour's son is a chiropractor and his practice is making a fortune out of these Middle Eastern Clients. He travels regularly to there for the wealthiest Clients.


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    #6690
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,827 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I said all names are a collection of letters. not mine ALL


    My name is not an Irish clan name it has been written in recorded Irish records for the past several hundred years. Did it originate here most likely not.
    Does that make me less Irish?
    You can deal with your own existential crisis. I'm not here to give you a sense of identity. Analyse your DNA and get over it.


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    #6691
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can deal with your own existential crisis. I'm not here to give you a sense of identity. Analyse your DNA and get over it.

    You said I'm not Irish because I don't have a clan name so back up your claims or retract them.
    Don't be a chicken now and try weasel out.
    I don't have an Irish surname does that mean I am not Irish?


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