What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

WrenBoy

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Apart from the auto correct typo which was obvious. I'll assume you agree with the test of my post.

Regards
Rob

Dear Robby,
It'd probably be better to not assume that I agree with your views.

Regards,
Wren.

MrMusician18

What is strange about this, is that, aside from a few self interested groups, there is absolutely no political pressure from the population to deal with this issue. The only pressure was to not locate DP in small towns and villages. I really don't see what is in this for the political parties? Positive press is perhaps the only thing. I'm waiting for the blame the EU (nothing to do with them of course), from cowardly politicians unwilling to own their decision.

The housing list has been a mile long for decades and no one cared until private housing started to become unaffordable. The white paper is going to be a very hard sell to the regular Joe, back commuting an hour and a half each way to his over priced cramped estate home, while the state provides own door accommodation to foreigners within 6 months. We are creating fertile ground for extremist political parties tbh.

Esho

Deleted User wrote: »

Because we're expected to provide for our own people. It's a pretty basic facet of civilisation that we look after our own. I have my own issues with Traveller culture, for example, but Travellers are Irish, and should be provided for, until they're capable of providing for themselves (and we should do whatever we can to make that happen).

It makes little logical sense though to increase the numbers of people who will be dependent on us, and have increasingly shown over the last two decades, to hold little loyalty or appreciation for the provision received.

We already have a sizable foreign born population, and their subsequent Irish born children. They're unlikely to be leaving any time soon. It makes more sense that we have the resources to provide for them, and get them in a position of providing for themselves, than further increasing said population of dependents, and spreading existing resources wider.

Resources that are already lacking in being able to provide for the existing population. I could understand, somewhat, this desire for more immigration, if we were assured that the Irish economy would continue to grow stronger, with a greater ability (and stability) to provide for increased numbers... but there's little sign that's going to be the case. The most positive estimations are that the economy remains as it is.. which is still incapable in providing adequate provisions for the overall population. A shrinking economy is far more likely, without jobs being available for new arrivals, and less investment available to produce them.

I don't think that anyone can argue with those stats.

For example, the Africans that settled in Balbriggan.did so because there was housing stock there in the early 2000s.
But there was f all else, and the govt policy was that any settlement must be absorbed by the local services, without any extra expense or support.

So theres some kids who sat through secondary school without learning English , never mind getting a leaving cert.
They join the 20% of the population without literacy skills, but without any family or local network.to get a start anywhere.

So they have no prospects of work, unless.they are more motivated than most. Which.is exceptional in any group.

Thesr kids are Irish - they are now "our own". Even if they don't identify as such.
Same as all the Sharia-law lovers - 100% Irish citizens.


There needs to be a merit system for state supports.
If you're a sack, you go down the list for housing
If you contribute in any way, you go up.

RobbieTheRobber

WrenBoy wrote: »

Dear Robby,
It'd probably be better to not assume that I agree with your views.

Regards,
Wren.

I'll assume what I want.
No thought police here wranny

RandRuns

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

No thought police here wranny

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Then stay out of the discussion!

:rolleyes:

RobbieTheRobber

RandRuns wrote: »

Are you a mod now?

:rolleyes:

Esho

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is strange about this, is that, aside from a few self interested groups, there is absolutely no political pressure from the population to deal with this issue. The only pressure was to not locate DP in small towns and villages. I really don't see what is in this for the political parties? Positive press is perhaps the only thing. I'm waiting for the blame the EU (nothing to do with them of course), from cowardly politicians unwilling to own their decision.

The housing list has been a mile long for decades and no one cared until private housing started to become unaffordable. The white paper is going to be a very hard sell to the regular Joe, back commuting an hour and a half each way to his over priced cramped estate home, while the state provides own door accommodation to foreigners within 6 months. We are creating fertile ground for extremist political parties tbh.

There is massive middle-class/ NGO/ Irish Times etc pressure to deal with this issue ...from people who vote and contact their TDs. People who kick up a stink.

Nobody represents Regular Joe - we get it up the Brenda Fricker. And we take it and have been taking it for ever, so there is no pressure for anyone to do anything. The only politicians talking about housing are doing this for people who the banks would laugh at if they tried to apply for a home loan.

When an asylum seeker gets leave to stay, they join the queue for housing.
Same weighting for them as for everyone else - so they effectively are homeless.

Esho

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Padraig Mor

fantaiscool wrote: »

I have to say, it's extremely satisfying to see the racists scurry around crying about the end of Direct Provision

I'd imagine vanishingly few people have an issue with genuine refugees being allowed into Ireland, hell even given their 'own door' accommodation. I certainly don't. The main problem is that the vast majority of those who go through the asylum seeker process are not genuine refugees - they are fraudsters. We know this because this is what the stats from the process show. The reason these people are 'caught in DP hell' for years is because they exploit the various appeals processes in a farce taking many years - they want to be 'stuck' in the asylum process because, ultimately, it seems these fraudsters are very rarely deported as they should be.....stick it long enough and they'll be allowed stay here ad infinitum. They are assisted in this ignominy by sleveen solicitors and barristers (at workers' cost, naturally), far left ideological NGOs and, frankly, useful idiots like yourself and others of similar outlook who, it seems to me, view all asylum seekers as refugees (indeed, the publications of many NGOs use the terms interchangeably when they have entirely separate meanings). The irony is all these fraudsters, and their Irish supporters, are preventing the (few) genuine cases from having their applications processed promptly - in effect, those who call for an end to direct provision actually harm genuine refugees.

And now you want to hand over free houses to all these fraudsters, plus anyone else who can scam their way here? Dear God!

And yet, anyone who has misgivings such as the above (and who is in favour of prompt processing and settling for genuine refugees) is called a racist?

Esho

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no need to leave the EU, and it would be economic suicide in any case. The freedom of movement for people and goods, doesn't necessarily extend to money...

Western Union!
Fair play to anyone from elsewhere sending money.to support their loved ones.
These are the kind of people any country wants.
And the sums involved are probably very small looking at the GDP.
Even the GDP minus the copper plate multinationals profits!

MrMusician18

Esho wrote: »

There is massive middle-class/ NGO/ Irish Times etc pressure to deal with this issue ...from people who vote and contact their TDs. People who kick up a stink.

Nobody represents Regular Joe - we get it up the Brenda Fricker. And we take it and have been taking it for ever, so there is no pressure for anyone to do anything. The only politicians talking about housing are doing this for people who the banks would laugh at if they tried to apply for a home loan.

When an asylum seeker gets leave to stay, they join the queue for housing.
Same weighting for them as for everyone else - so they effectively are homeless.

I agree there is a lot of pressure from the IT and media generally, but don't agree there is a clamour from the middle classes to deal with this. The middle classes are more concerned about obtaining good quality housing than worrying about the quality and rights of asylum seekers. Remember, a household with a combined income of say 80k would be considered middle class, and 80k is barely enough to get decent housing in Dublin.

You have to be extremely wealthy to be able to afford to take this issue up as your cause.

Esho

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I agree there is a lot of pressure from the IT and media generally, but don't agree there is a clamour from the middle classes to deal with this. The middle classes are more concerned about obtaining good quality housing than worrying about the quality and rights of asylum seekers. Remember, a household with a combined income of say 80k would be considered middle class, and 80k is barely enough to get decent housing in Dublin.

You have to be extremely wealthy to be able to afford to take this issue up as your cause.

Thanks for the clarification on what's middle class!
Yes, you are right- most people don't care, but the noisy groups do.
Have lots of money or none, I suppose.

DeadHand

MrMusician18 wrote: »

We are creating fertile ground for extremist political parties tbh.

There already are extremists in our government, and manipulating our government from the outside. .


This policy is insane. It is driven by blind, fevered ideology rather than responsible, centrist governance.

It is extremism.

It is the culmination of the dangerous agenda of the few, and the silent self-interest of the many.

Yellow_Fern

If anyone was to found a respectful mainstream NGO to lobby for less immigration I'd be delighted to generously donate to it, provided it didn't go into far right stuff.

Eric Cartman

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

If anyone was to found a respectful mainstream NGO to lobby on this Id be delighted to generously donate to it, provided it didn't go into far right stuff.

The only NGO’s we fund are all talking shops for open borders and left if centre ideas, theres a bunch of NGO’s that even keep painting the very idea of questioning unchecked migration as ‘far right stuff’

RandRuns

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The only NGO’s we fund are all talking shops for open borders and left if centre ideas, theres a bunch of NGO’s that even keep painting the very idea of questioning unchecked migration as ‘far right stuff’

And I get the feeling that the job of some of their employees is to haunt forums like Boards to give the impression that their views are mainstream.

TomTomTim

RandRuns wrote: »

And I get the feeling that the job of some of their employees is to haunt forums like Boards to give the impression that their views are mainstream.

The Journal article on it did just that, by framing DP as something that was "much criticized" or something along those lines. The "much criticized", was from NGOs and open borders lunatics, it had nothing to do with general consensus, which is something some might infer from their framing. Most people outside of the aforementioned groups who had a problem with DP, certainly wouldn't be happy about the new solution, as it's obviously far worse.

cgcsb

Devastated by the RTE news today regarding direct provision. As someone who has been impacted by the housing crisis and as someone who, along with my entire family, have paid high levels of personal taxation our entire lives only to be delivered this slap in the face. We wont have any right to a home but we'll be paying for homes for people with no connection to this country who have contributed nothing to system and that will be done as a matter of urgency. While we will get nothing but derision and more taxes.
The biggest kick in the face was the media talking about how this was 'broadly welcomed', no alternative pov was offered by RTE. They also had claimed before that direct provision was the human rights issue of our generation, which made me sick to my stomach.
I don't blame the people coming her and collecting the keys to their free house. I'd do it too in their situation, I'm just sick that the green party have done this to their own people.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Devastated by the RTE news today regarding direct provision. As someone who has been impacted by the housing crisis and as someone who, along with my entire family, have paid high levels of personal taxation our entire lives only to be delivered this slap in the face. We wont have any right to a home but we'll be paying for homes for people with no connection to this country who have contributed nothing to system and that will be done as a matter of urgency. While we will get nothing but derision and more taxes.
The biggest kick in the face was the media talking about how this was 'broadly welcomed', no alternative pov was offered by RTE. They also had claimed before that direct provision was the human rights issue of our generation, which made me sick to my stomach.
I don't blame the people coming her and collecting the keys to their free house. I'd do it too in their situation, I'm just sick that the green party have done this to their own people.

Make your opinions known. I know I've shown my complete lack of respect and trust in our politicians, but I'll still let them know how I feel on issues. My parents do it too, and have spoken similar about DP, and the housing initiatives.

As for RTE... I don't know, but I suspect people just assume that they'll be ignored rather than they're being told how people really feel. I've never known anyone who had been interviewed or made a part of their research on issues like this, so I always get the feeling that they just poll particular areas or certain types of people... Admittedly, I have submitted various "letters to editors" and other feedback and been ignored..

It is possible that if enough people let their opinions known.. while (this is important) sticking as much to unemotional and relevant facts/statistics, we might see some kind of shift in RTE, or the politicians. They both rely somewhat on the long-term acceptance (or lethargy) of the public... if people stop listening and start talking, we might see some change.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Make your opinions known. I know I've shown my complete lack of respect and trust in our politicians, but I'll still let them know how I feel on issues. My parents do it too, and have spoken similar about DP, and the housing initiatives.

As for RTE... I don't know, but I suspect people just assume that they'll be ignored rather than they're being told how people really feel. I've never known anyone who had been interviewed or made a part of their research on issues like this, so I always get the feeling that they just poll particular areas or certain types of people... Admittedly, I have submitted various "letters to editors" and other feedback and been ignored..

It is possible that if enough people let their opinions known.. while (this is important) sticking as much to unemotional and relevant facts/statistics, we might see some kind of shift in RTE, or the politicians. They both rely somewhat on the long-term acceptance (or lethargy) of the public... if people stop listening and start talking, we might see some change.

I agree with this, get involved even though you'll probably be ignored. I follow politics closely in Ireland and abroad. If there is no party you feel you can support, which is my case at the moment, look to Europe, we are after all Europeans.

I give financial support to certain european parties whose values align with me. To be honest this is important as it gives me a stake in what is going on in the EU at the moment. Without this it would be even more demoralizing seeing what is going on with the Irish political parties and the media.

Arthur Daley

Yeah, ironically Europe is probably the best real hope now. Things have got so bad, it is only once Ireland's lack of self respect and open borders lunacy threatens the wider Common travel area that anything will be done about it. It is the weakest link in the chain.
You can be damned sure the French, Italians and Eastern Europeans wouldn't stand for this nonsense anymore. They've had enough, and the Germans can't be that far behind. The British have already put their cards on the table with Brexit.

fantaiscool

cgcsb wrote: »

The biggest kick in the face was the media talking about how this was 'broadly welcomed'

Perhaps because it was broadly welcomed?

I have to say it is pretty strange to see so many people who are on the fringe in terms of their views not realize it. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of comedic value in it but it's also quite sad in many ways.

What if... it actually was broadly welcomed?

suicide_circus

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is strange about this, is that, aside from a few self interested groups, there is absolutely no political pressure from the population to deal with this issue

Our enormous NGO industry have extensive control of public policy and discourse.

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Yeah, ironically Europe is probably the best real hope now. Things have got so bad, it is only once Ireland's lack of self respect and open borders lunacy threatens the wider Common travel area that anything will be done about it. It is the weakest link in the chain.
You can be damned sure the French, Italians and Eastern Europeans wouldn't stand for this nonsense anymore. They've had enough, and the Germans can't be that far behind. The British have already put their cards on the table with Brexit.

I certainly hope so.. about Europe.. but... a part of me fully expects them to return to their virtue signalling ways, and short-sighted desires to expand their workforce. Oh, I'm very hopeful that they don't.. but really.. what have we got to go by? France is the only country, apart from Denmark to really look at tackling the problems with multiculturalism. Most others are seeking to find convenient reasons for the failure of integration policies, blaming their own institutions rather than considering what else might be at play.

As for the British.. I've always felt Brexit was less about multiculturalism/immigration and more of a gesture of annoyance that they were no longer diplomatic leaders in Europe. I just feel that Brexit was more to do with their increasingly lack of influence within the EU, rather than the media put forward about immigration. Most of their problems with immigration and multiculturalism came from their own policies..

So.. while I'm hopeful (due to France, really), I wouldn't be too surprised to see Germany and others revert to encouraging asylum seekers and refugees of all sorts.

Doctor Roast

fantaiscool wrote: »

Perhaps because it was broadly welcomed?

I have to say it is pretty strange to see so many people who are on the fringe in terms of their views not realize it. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of comedic value in it but it's also quite sad in many ways.

What if... it actually was broadly welcomed?

It wasn't... But you keep telling yourself that

Arthur Daley

Let's see how Le Pen gets on going into next year's presidential election. Recent polls have her 50:50 with Macron.

20 million Frenchmen can't be wrong?

tayto lover

fantaiscool wrote: »

Perhaps because it was broadly welcomed?

I have to say it is pretty strange to see so many people who are on the fringe in terms of their views not realize it. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of comedic value in it but it's also quite sad in many ways.

What if... it actually was broadly welcomed?

It’s not and it won’t be.
It’s lunacy.

Doctor Roast

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s not and it won’t be.
It’s lunacy.

His first and last line kinda give his game away, he's over on another thread with the same nonsense, taking some kind of imaginary smug pleasure from it...
You won't find too many Irish people happy that fake refugees are getting their own accommodation after 4 months and not having paid a penny into the system over homeless Irish people, kids included and others struggling to get housing...

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I certainly hope so.. about Europe.. but... a part of me fully expects them to return to their virtue signalling ways, and short-sighted desires to expand their workforce. Oh, I'm very hopeful that they don't.. but really.. what have we got to go by? France is the only country, apart from Denmark to really look at tackling the problems with multiculturalism. Most others are seeking to find convenient reasons for the failure of integration policies, blaming their own institutions rather than considering what else might be at play.

As for the British.. I've always felt Brexit was less about multiculturalism/immigration and more of a gesture of annoyance that they were no longer diplomatic leaders in Europe. I just feel that Brexit was more to do with their increasingly lack of influence within the EU, rather than the media put forward about immigration. Most of their problems with immigration and multiculturalism came from their own policies..

So.. while I'm hopeful (due to France, really), I wouldn't be too surprised to see Germany and others revert to encouraging asylum seekers and refugees of all sorts.

All of eastern europe, Italy, Austria as well are tightening their processes and borders.

Right now Ireland is kind of aligned with Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium in being wide open, Spain as well but that's because they currently have a socialist government. We're in a minority in Europe at the moment with our virtue signaling

Dyr

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Let's see how Le Pen gets on going into next year's presidential election. Recent polls have her 50:50 with Macron.

20 million Frenchmen can't be wrong?

Macrron is doing what Merkel did in Germay to fend off Le Pen , lots of tough talk on immigration etc during the election campaign and once back in power do sweet FA