What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

How does this naturalisation do anything but encourage more people to come and work illegally?

Nothing. It's the pregnancy passports all over again. The only thing it does is virtue signal. I hate using that phrase but if there was ever a case of it fitting this is it.

I really do wonder what's the plan? You can start to see what passes for reasoning among the conspiratorial types. But there's no plan. If there were some nefarious plan at least that would suggest, well, planning, but the authorities are making it up as they go along while trying to look as virtuous and self satisfied as possible.

Unfortunately the Irish electorate won't get the chance to vote on measures like this. After the birthright loophole was voted on and closed by a resounding majority the same authorities know damn well what the result would be and it wouldn't look good...

suicide_circus

Just to echo what others have said re ex pats in Ireland, be they my colleagues or family from elsewhere in europe, the concensus is that Irish politics operates with incredible naivety in terms of social welfare and migration.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Just to echo what others have said re ex pats in Ireland, be they my colleagues or family from elsewhere in europe, the concensus is that Irish politics operates with incredible naivety in terms of social welfare and migration.

I think it's less to do with naivety and more to do with the lack of accountability, and responsibility for what happens after they implement something. Its very rare for a politician to face any serious repercussions for what they do. They might lose their position, but they've managed to insulate themselves quite well, either by entering the public service, or retiring to private business (all the while, retaining the benefits for their past service). For the rest of us, losing our positions has serious consequences on our lives.. but for them, there's none of that.

And so, i feel that they approach politics like it's a video game. They play while they're in work, but without any real risks involved, and then go home at the end, glorifying in their 'achievements'.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has anyone seen any scrutiny over the naturalisation pathway that the dept of justice is proposing for people currently here working illegally. There seems to have been absolutely no notice paid to it.

Personally I think its good that if people are here already (lets face it we were never going to deport them even if they've broken the law as evidenced by that Brazilian decorator in Gort) that they contribute via tax but my question is are they going to be made to pay tax (and penalties) for all the years they've been here? If they do become citizens (considering they will be low paid) they may be entitled to income support so would not have paid high taxes but they were not entitled to any support but were still subject to income tax while they were working here as 3rd country nationals. If the Government decides to forgive what they should have paid in tax all these years then surely we are all entitled to a refund. I will be interested what the European Commission will have to say if third country nationals who have no claim on special status (like asylum seekers would) are treated more favourably than EU citizens

Also will the Government actually collect the relevant taxes the employers of these people should have been paying? A policy where you ignore that a person/business has been employing an illegal immigrant without paying the relevant tax/prsi would be tantamount to State Aid for the hospitality (etc) sector in my opnion.

How does this naturalisation do anything but encourage more people to come and work illegally? America had an amnesty in 1986 and they're left with the exact same problem but worse now 35 years on

Two main things from me here:

Why aren't the busineses who employeed people illegally prosecuted? Why aren't they jailed if found guilty. Are there business owners connected to FF/FG elected officials who have been hiring people illegally and not paying tax?

The Minister for Justice has said she will be vetting these people to make sure they are not a threat to the State. If some of them are a threat to the State why have they been allowed remain here for years?

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Why aren't the busineses who employeed people illegally prosecuted?

This. In a big way. As well as thieves the law goes after those who receive stolen goods, because and quite logically with none of the latter around, there'd be far fewer of the former. From what I've read there is zero mention of this obvious elephant in the room.

Rob Humanoid

Deleted User wrote: »

Two main things from me here:

Why aren't the busineses who employeed people illegally prosecuted? Why aren't they jailed if found guilty. Are there business owners connected to FF/FG elected officials who have been hiring people illegally and not paying tax?

The Minister for Justice has said she will be vetting these people to make sure they are not a threat to the State. If some of them are a threat to the State why have they been allowed remain here for years?

I think you pointed out most rational people's frustration here.


We don't need any more criminals in Ireland as we've plenty of our own. And why such an elongated process when deemed a threat (or career criminal).


Mind you, I would hold any Irish abroad to the same standards. No one needs another country's drop outs.

I've sent an email to my local TD and asked him to ask the Minister for Justice these questions about the naturalisation scheme in a parliamentary question.

Theres a clear law that its illegal to hire 3rd country nationals who don't have the legal right to work here, so either you need to acknowledge that you're letting all the businesses who have done so off the hook or you need to actually prosecute them and get the money for the State that they should have been paying.

If the left actually cared about the working class in this country, they would be up in arms about this. We already have a labour market open to 450m other Europeans

Doctor Roast

Deleted User wrote: »

I've sent an email to my local TD and asked him to ask the Minister for Justice these questions about the naturalisation scheme in a parliamentary question.

Theres a clear law that its illegal to hire 3rd country nationals who don't have the legal right to work here, so either you need to acknowledge that you're letting all the businesses who have done so off the hook or you need to actually prosecute them and get the money for the State that they should have been paying.

If the left actually cared about the working class in this country, they would be up in arms about this. We already have a labour market open to 450m other Europeans[ /QUOTE]

Couple that with migration from outside the EU and its not looking good for the demographics here in years time, 17 per cent is already foreign born

Jane98

Where will I find information on the Naturalisation scheme being spoken about here?

Jane98

Jane98 wrote: »

Where will I find information on the Naturalisation scheme being spoken about here?

There isn't a terrible amount of information available yet but it was in the PFG and was talked about by Helen McEntee when Ivana Bacik was proposing legislation that would grant birthright citizenship. The only concrete information is that it was in the department of justice plan for 2021

"Open a new regularisation scheme for thousands of undocumented migrants who have made Ireland their home"
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000036

Denmark seem to have had a change of heart on immigration in recent years. They appear to be moving towards returning migrants to countries deemed safe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9316633/Denmark-European-country-Syrian-migrants-country.html

Hard to argue with that policy, asylum should be to offer people a safe haven until it is safe for them to return home, it should never have been about a new life forever in their chosen Country.

biko

Inger Støjberg served as Denmark's immigration minister from 2015 to 2019

If you have turned your back on Demark and joined IS you are a traitor and not welcome back.
It's about all our safety. We will not let terrorists in the front or the back door.

biko

biko wrote: »

Inger Støjberg served as Denmark's immigration minister from 2015 to 2019

Respect

biko

I think Denmark's policy is - if we remove the "bad immigrants" then "good immigrants" will increase in societal value.
Racism towards "good immigrants" (actual doctors/engineers etc) is very low whereas racism towards "bad immigrants" (dole scroungers/drug dealers etc) is high.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

Denmark seem to have had a change of heart on immigration in recent years. They appear to be moving towards returning migrants to countries deemed safe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9316633/Denmark-European-country-Syrian-migrants-country.html

Hard to argue with that policy, asylum should be to offer people a safe haven until it is safe for them to return home, it should never have been about a new life forever in their chosen Country.

I was glad Begum was refused her citizenship. When they reported on the story on Sky she was dressed very casually. Casually enough that would have warranted decapitation by her former associates.

TomTomTim

biko wrote: »

I think Denmark's policy is - if we remove the "bad immigrants" then "good immigrants" will increase in societal value.
Racism towards "good immigrants" (actual doctors/engineers etc) is very low whereas racism towards "bad immigrants" (dole scroungers/drug dealers etc) is high.

It's almost like it has zero to do with racism, and everything to do with how people behave.

biko

It's easy, just automatically deport anyone with a non-Irish citizenship that is sentenced to prison for any crime, even if they have family here.
Very soon immigrant involved crime will drop to nothing, which is good for Ireland and for normal immigrants that aren't criminals.

In 2016 a total of 77 Polish, 66 Lithuanian, 63 British, 49 Romanian and 18 Latvian men were inmates in Irish institutions, with Nigerian, Brazilian, Chinese, and Czech nationals also significantly represented.
The IPS said it spent €63,513 on interpreter services from the start of 2013 to the end of September 2015.

Deport them all after served sentence.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Open a new regularisation scheme for thousands of undocumented migrants who have made Ireland their home"
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000036

They've decided to make Ireland their home therefore we have to give them citizenship...why not just cancel all our immigration laws, it'd be easier than pretending the rule of law matters

biko

If they are undocumented migrants then Ireland is not their home, it's just a stopover.

statesaver

Deleted User wrote: »

"Open a new regularisation scheme for thousands of undocumented migrants who have made Ireland their home"
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000036

I hope those undocumented migrants with criminal records still resident in the State are exempt from the scheme.

Eric Cartman

statesaver wrote: »

I hope those undocumented migrants with criminal records still resident in the State are exempt from the scheme.

by the logic of law, they're all illegal immigrants and thus criminals.

Real Donald Trump

Putin nails it, on this topic anyway, regardless of other issues, he's spot on here

stefanovich

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Putin nails it, on this topic anyway, regardless of other issues, he's spot on here

Great video. Always find interviews with Putin fascinating.

DelaneysMule

Thank you. I highly respect a man who poisons journalists and political opponents.

stefanovich

DelaneysMule wrote: »

Thank you. I highly respect a man who poisons journalists and political opponents.

Allegedly.

Yamanoto

DelaneysMule wrote: »

Thank you. I highly respect a man who poisons journalists and political opponents.

Deeply unpleasant character no doubt, but that's besides the point.

He's far from the only one pointing to an ever more apparent disconnect between political elites and their citizenry on the issue of immigration.

stefanovich

Yamanoto wrote: »

Deeply unpleasant character no doubt, but that's besides the point.

He's far from the only one pointing to an ever more apparent disconnect between political elites and their citizenry on the issue of immigration.

Just cause you don't like someone doesn't mean everything they say is wrong.

Hitler promoted vegetarianism for instance. I am sure a lot of the Green party would agree with him on that.

DelaneysMule

DelaneysMule wrote: »

Thank you. I highly respect a man who poisons journalists and political opponents.

What's respect got to do with anything? He's a politician. An incredibly smart, and insightful politician, but he's still what he is.

All politicians are similar, in that what they say and do, rarely match.. and their morality doesn't tend to match our own. Even the politicians of the past which are held up as icons, all of them had their own dubious decisions, and decidedly shady pasts.

The point remains though that he's been very good at identifying what's going on in the world, and has done well for Russia. I'd seriously consider (not immediately accept) any observations he makes.

DelaneysMule

Deleted User wrote: »

What's respect got to do with anything? He's a politician. An incredibly smart, and insightful politician, but he's still what he is.

All politicians are similar, in that what they say and do, rarely match.. and their morality doesn't tend to match our own. Even the politicians of the past which are held up as icons, all of them had their own dubious decisions, and decidedly shady pasts.

The point remains though that he's been very good at identifying what's going on in the world, and has done well for Russia. I'd seriously consider (not immediately accept) any observations he makes.

I'll keep it short and simple..... He's a scumbag.

stefanovich

DelaneysMule wrote: »

I'll keep it short and simple..... He's a scumbag.

Point me to another politician at his level who isn't?

He is certainly a big improvement on previous Russian leaders!