What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RobbieTheRobber

jmreire wrote: »

Robbie, quick question for you, have you actually ever lived in any of these Country's we are getting the asylum seekers and immigrants from? Middle East, Africa etc? Or even China, as you seem to know a lot about the legalistic status of VPNs and immigrants etc.

Have you ever lived in a direct provision centre?

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Most immigration to Ireland is of the legal kind though isn't it?

That's nothing to do with my point. You seem to just go around throwing out irrelevant sentences that have nothing to do with what was said.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

That's nothing to do with my point. You seem to just go around throwing out irrelevant sentences that have nothing to do with what was said.

It helps to avoid questions and uncomfortable answers and if any replies do occur we get this.



It's been the modus operandi of the majority of those on the in favour side of this thread.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

That's nothing to do with my point. You seem to just go around throwing out irrelevant sentences that have nothing to do with what was said.

What?

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

It helps to avoid questions and uncomfortable answers and if any replies do occur we get this.



It's been the modus operandi of the majority of those on the in favour side of this thread.

Yep the racists sure do move the goalposts a lot, that is very true Wibbs.

WrenBoy

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yep the racists sure do move the goalposts a lot, that is very true Wibbs.

Did you really try the "I know you are but what am I ?" line ?
Even you can do better than that Robbie.

RobbieTheRobber

WrenBoy wrote: »

Did you really try the "I know you are but what am I ?" line ?
Even you can do better than that Robbie.

You have posters who don't answer questions
Posters asking personal questions.
Posters going off on rants
And a moving the goal post gif.
And that's the last 2 pages

Edit: Add an ad hominem attack in the post below

But yeah it's me moving the goal posts.

I asked a question a while back after the thread had been mocking kebab shop owners as the only example of multicultiurism they like.
As to why a kebab shop owner is an example of multicultiurism but foreign born doctors are being labelled as just immigrants, do you want to answer that one.
Or should we post more gifs instead?

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

That's nothing to do with my point. You seem to just go around throwing out irrelevant sentences that have nothing to do with what was said.

I think he's angry.

I quite like the cut of Denmarks gib these days.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I asked a question a while back after the thread had been mocking kebab shop owners as the only example of multicultiurism they like.
As to why a kebab shop owner is an example of multicultiurism but foreign born doctors are being labelled as just immigrants, do you want to answer that one.
Or should we post more gifs instead?

Kebabs are a eastern dish which is part of the culture of many immigrants in much the same way Irish stew would be over abroad. Kebab shops, and other restaurants are introducing part of their culture through food.

Foreign born doctors are doctors who are immigrants. Nothing about their training would be foreign to the practices of doctors trained in Ireland. It's not about culture. That's probably why it's not an example of multiculturalism

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Kebabs are a eastern dish which is part of the culture of many immigrants in much the same way Irish stew would be over abroad. Kebab shops, and other restaurants are introducing part of their culture through food.

Foreign born doctors are doctors who are immigrants. Nothing about their training would be foreign to the practices of doctors trained in Ireland. It's not about culture. That's probably why it's not an example of multiculturalism

Ok them being doctors means they leave behind the culture they grew up in and were educated in and it has no impact on them at all?

Kebabs were invented in Germany for Germans by a Turkish immigrant I believe.

Wibbs

WrenBoy wrote: »

Did you really try the "I know you are but what am I ?" line ?

When what passes for argument fails... It's been an extremely consistent feature of this thread and on one side. Deflection, appeal to emotion with little to back it up, avoidance of direct points raised and with some after all that fails run to inference and/or finally insult overt or direct.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yep the racists sure do move the goalposts a lot, that is very true Wibbs.

A perfect example that encapsulates much of the above. Deflection, avoidance and the lazy subverted hail mary insult of "racists". And every post reinforces it.

It's almost as if the argument has little merit beyond the surface or the jingoism of the Accepted Truth of multiculturalism? Though I suspect with many if not most it's much more about the acceptance of an Accepted Truth that few have actually examined very closely. I'd have included myself in that group too tbh. I had expected a significantly more robust argument for modern European multiculturalism than has been presented. That has genuinely surprised me. For me any societal Accepted Truth that is so hard to defend in measured terms is a pretty good sign it's not much of a Truth in the first place and shouldn't be Accepted so readily.

Oh and from what I can see here are the "goalposts" of the vast majority of the anti multiculturalism side and have been from the start:

Legal and controlled immigration of skilled people most likely to integrate into a society and that will add to the society is not at issue. This includes actual refugees and asylum seekers.

Illegal and uncontrolled immigration of the largely low and unskilled that will be potential and actual negatives and who don't integrate are the issues. Issues that are repeated pretty much verbatim in the experiences of every single so called multicultural nation in Europe that has gone down this road. That we have enough of an underclass already and we don't need to be wilfully adding to that, with even more intractable problems on top.

That Ireland's political and media class has decided after the facts of the above nations to ignore and deny their experiences and in some cases the clear democratic will of the Irish people in the case of trying to sneak birthright citizenship back in are more issues.

I think I've summed the majority view up and not a lot of goalposts have been moving there I'm afraid.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

Deflection, appeal to emotion with little to back it up, avoidance of direct points raised and with some after all that fails run to inference and/or finally insult overt or direct.

Bambi wrote: »

I think he's angry.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wibbs

Bambi wrote: »

I quite like the cut of Denmarks gib these days.

The Happiest nation on earth apparently and they've learned that the non integration of non Danish/European/"christian" cultures who are more of a negative than a positive on their society and social tax bill doesn't help with that happiness.

Mike Murdock

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You have posters who don't answer questions
Posters asking personal questions.
Posters going off on rants
And a moving the goal post gif.
And that's the last 2 pages

Edit: Add an ad hominem attack in the post below

But yeah it's me moving the goal posts.

I asked a question a while back after the thread had been mocking kebab shop owners as the only example of multicultiurism they like.
As to why a kebab shop owner is an example of multicultiurism but foreign born doctors are being labelled as just immigrants, do you want to answer that one.
Or should we post more gifs instead?

No-one is mocking kebab shop owners here, Robbie. We are mocking proponents of multi-culturalism that when pushed to answer about the benefits of Multiculturalism almost always bring up food as the primary, and only substantive, benefit of multiculturalism that they can think of.

And then they follow it up with a bunch of touchy-feely "brotherhood of man" type nonsense.

And your question re: Doctors has been answered. Doctors/Nurses/Surgeons from outside the EU have been trained in Modern Western Medicine with modern techniques and some may even have gone to University or undergone Medical training/internships in the West.

Mike Murdock

Wibbs wrote: »

The Happiest nation on earth apparently and they've learned that the non integration of non Danish/European/"christian" cultures who are more of a negative than a positive on their society and social tax bill doesn't help with that happiness.

I always thought it was Costa Rica that was the happiest

RobbieTheRobber

Mike Murdock wrote: »

I always thought it was Costa Rica that was the happiest

But isn't it actually Finland
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/03/19/the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world-in-2021/

Wibbs

Mike Murdock wrote: »

I always thought it was Costa Rica that was the happiest

It seems to swing from one place to another, Finland, Norway, Switzerland are usually in the mix but the Danes tend to be consistently in the top three.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

It seems to swing from one place to another, Finland, Norway, Switzerland are usually in the mix but the Danes tend to be consistently in the top three.

Netherlands, Germany as well as Sweden also always score high but aren't they examples of bad immigration polices.

RobbieTheRobber

Mike Murdock wrote: »

And your question re: Doctors has been answered. Doctors/Nurses/Surgeons from outside the EU have been trained in Modern Western Medicine with modern techniques and some may even have gone to University or undergone Medical training/internships in the West.

Is it only Doctors that receive this specific western training the washes them clean of their culture. Or do any other professions have a similar cleansing effect on their students cultural traits?

WrenBoy

Why would we want to cleanse them of cultural traits ?
Personally Im just in favour of maintaining our own culture and cultural traits.

Robbie are you under the belief that without immigrants Ireland wouldn't have a health service ?

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Netherlands, Germany as well as Sweden also always score high but aren't they examples of bad immigration polices.

And all are rebelling more and more against the "diversity is our strength" multiculturalist mantra, because those same bad immigration polices are impacting their culture negatively and for the most part over the last ten years and in far higher numbers than previously. But again somehow and magically Ireland will alone avoid this consistent trend that no other country has.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Roll your eyes all you wish, but it's the conflation - and well you know it - of illegal and legal migration in the debate around multicultural Europe. What percentage of non EU migrants over the last 20 years came here through direct legal means for employment or education? Is it the majority? It is not. Quite the percentage came and got residence here because of the birthright passport loophole, of which well over 90% of whom wouldn't be allowed in or to stay today after it was closed. What percentage of legal non EU migrants are in receipt of social welfare and housing? Is it the majority? It is not.


Accessing a VPN(as most locals do too) Versus a lifetime of social welfare and increasing social problems. Yeah totally comparable. Loving the "well maybe he's not legal?" angle. :pac: The difference between here and places like China(and other nations in Asia) is he'd get short shrift as an illegal compared to here. He certainly wouldn't get social welfare or be in line with and even ahead of the locals for social housing. Welcome to the bottom of the barrel of your arguments. Scrapers will be provided.

China is far more oppressive and clearly far more into surveillance of their peoples. On the other hand you have a ciggie in a pub so... But that's another argument.

Illegal immigrants cannot access social welfare

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Man living in China argues about immigrants and calls Ireland a nanny state

I live in Ireland and China, splitting my time between both.

The funny thing is that China is less of a nanny state than Ireland. Oh, it's a police state with strong laws (suspended whenever they want) on a wide range of "national" interests, but when it comes to how people live their lives... the State is pretty "hands off", except where it directly threatens the CCP. Chinese traditional culture serves to regulate the excesses. There are few laws or regulations enforced (it took five times for them to actually implement the no smoking bans in hospitals, because most people ignored the rules), on society.. although that's changing now as they become more modern, and need to be seen to be doing something to improve the public image of Chinese people.

So.. were you going to deal with the meat of what I wrote previously, or continue seeking some lame way to discredit me?

RobbieTheRobber

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why would we want to cleanse them of cultural traits ?
Personally Im just in favour of maintaining our own culture and cultural traits.

Robbie are you under the belief that without immigrants Ireland wouldn't have a health service ?

Wrenboy you know when I quote a post and reply that my reason for quoting the post is to reply to it.

Mike Murdock wrote: »

And your question re: Doctors has been answered. Doctors/Nurses/Surgeons from outside the EU have been trained in Modern Western Medicine with modern techniques and some may even have gone to University or undergone Medical training/internships in the West.

So the reason I said it cleansed them of their culture is because Mike Murdock says they are not an example of multicultiurism because of their training in the post I quoted and replied to.

So foreign doctors are not multi cultural because of specific training they received. So I was wondering did mike feel this cultural cleansing effect of medical training extended to other professions and training or was it exclusive to medicine.

RobbieTheRobber

bubblypop wrote: »

Illegal immigrants cannot access social welfare

What about the asylum seekers they will say. Although that in itself is a legal process so they are no longer illegal.

You really should stop moving the goalpost on them bubblypop its not fair.

Fandymo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Do you have a problem with Irish emigrants in other countries?

That is for each country and it's citizens to decide. I would have an issue with Irish who overstay visas. I believe they should be sent directly home when caught.

Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

I live in Ireland and China, splitting my time between both.

The funny thing is that China is less of a nanny state than Ireland. Oh, it's a police state with strong laws (suspended whenever they want) on a wide range of "national" interests, but when it comes to how people live their lives... the State is pretty "hands off", except where it directly threatens the CCP. Chinese traditional culture serves to regulate the excesses. There are few laws or regulations enforced (it took five times for them to actually implement the no smoking bans in hospitals, because most people ignored the rules), on society.. although that's changing now as they become more modern, and need to be seen to be doing something to improve the public image of Chinese people.

So.. were you going to deal with the meat of what I wrote previously, or continue seeking some lame way to discredit me?

Now why would he do that, when he can deflect, throw in some what about Irish emigrants comments, misrepresent peoples arguments, engage in projection or make baseless hints about the motivations of people he never met and otherwise argue in bad faith?

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well I dont know that he has fulfilled all the legal obligations to be in China do I. For all I know he could well be in breach of local laws.

I work for Public universities in China. Yup, I have a visa, and have had valid one every time I've been there. Also had business visas before when I worked in the private sector.

It's very rare for any westerner to enter, and stay in China without meeting the legal obligations. Those who remain illegally, typically, do so with an expired visa.

For example most foreigners in China use a VPN to access web services outside of China and without a license this would be illegal. Now we wouldn't want to support immigrants committing illegal activity would we.

Boards, for example, isn't blocked in China. Oh, some of the widgets it uses are blocked, but you can use the older html pages with zero problems. Any use of a VPN is illegal in China... but then, I don't need one, since I have an account with a government internet provider, and it bypasses the firewall limitations as an educator.

As for decrying Ireland a Nanny state well then comparing it to the country he moved is valid.

Would you say Ireland is more or less a nanny state than China Wibbs?

I suspect you don't see a difference between a Nanny State and a Police/Totalitarian State. There is a difference... It's not even a subtle difference.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live in Ireland and China, splitting my time between both.

I watch a lot of ADV podcasts on youtube, how accurate do you think they are if u've ever seen them? They paint a fairly bleak picture for immigrants in China and also Chinese society in general. I've no idea how things are on the ground over there though.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect you don't see a difference between a Nanny State and a Police/Totalitarian State. There is a difference... It's not even a subtle difference.

:D:D:D
Oh I see a difference but why bemoan a nanny state and then opt to live in a police state. Don't answer I don't care.