What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Marcos

I saw this statement from Mette Friedriksen, the Danish Prime Minister today and thought it might be relevant here.

“For me, it is becoming increasingly clear that the price of unregulated globalisation, mass immigration and the free movement of labour is paid for by the lower classes.”

It's originally from her biography but is requoted here in the Guardian for those that love to dismiss quotes or facts that don't fit their narrative based on the publication.

Reading that article, it's interesting that the Social Democrats changed tack because they saw from internal polling that 37% of their voters thought that immigration policy was too lax. So they saw their votes leaching over to the Danish Peoples Party.

Out on the Copenhagen streets, MP Peter Hummelgaard argued that the tough line on immigration was a return to the party’s roots. “We have become more aligned with many of the voters who we are made to represent, and who we became alienated from over the past 25 years,” he said.

In Tårnby, the working-class area he represents near Copenhagen airport, voters who deserted the party for the Danish People’s party are flooding back, he claimed. “The reactions that I’m meeting on the street are overwhelming. It is one of the areas where you have seen the consequences of mismanaged immigration, and you have also seen working-class people leaving the Social Democrat party. But they are now returning.”

The question is are the parties here doing similar internal polling of their members and voters? And if so will they attempt to court the same vote here?

Don't forget Denmark has already stated they have a policy of zero asylum seekers in order to preserve social cohesion. Now they have also stripped residency permits of 94 Syrians as it is now safe to return to Damascus.

HotDudeLife

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So they just upped sticks and moved to a new house according to that. Get it? Just like that.

The incident happened, what? , 4 months a go?

I wonder how many workers could do that so quickly and spontaneously for their personal traumas.

We have everything arse ways. Everything.

Childhood friend of mine working as an accountant busted his a**e for 10 years saving every penny to buy a home for his family, finally got a deposit and decent salary and purchased a house in Hollystown, Dublin 15 for >400k.

Guess who moved in a few doors down for free.

Jane98

Interesting article.

https://theliberal.ie/sweden-to-introduce-new-laws-on-citizenship-requiring-migrants-to-speak-swedish-and-be-able-to-support-themselves-before-they-are-granted-citizenship/

Sand

Overheal wrote: »

Wasn’t most of the third world colonized by the Brits?

If you subscribe to the 'Out of Africa' theory and the cheddar man hoax from 1-2 years ago, then the third world colonized Britain first. So the Brits were merely reclaiming their homelands.

Overheal

Sand wrote: »

If you subscribe to the 'Out of Africa' theory and the cheddar man hoax from 1-2 years ago, then the third world colonized Britain first. So the Brits were merely reclaiming their homelands.

Well, got me there honestly.

enricoh

Jane98 wrote: »

Interesting article.

https://theliberal.ie/sweden-to-introduce-new-laws-on-citizenship-requiring-migrants-to-speak-swedish-and-be-able-to-support-themselves-before-they-are-granted-citizenship/

That's sweden off the radar, the english have pulled up the drawbridge too.
Not to worry, paddy is taking over the reins , if roderick gets his way they'll all have keys to their own gaff after 4 months too!

Sand

enricoh wrote: »

That's sweden off the radar, the english have pulled up the drawbridge too.
Not to worry, paddy is taking over the reins , if roderick gets his way they'll all have keys to their own gaff after 4 months too!

Not necessarily the case. The standard of speaking Swedish can be diluted by motivated activists masquerading as government employees. Swedes, and indeed other European nations, have to identify citizenship with ethnicity, within reason. The threat to Sweden is not non-Swedish speakers from Norway or Denmark or Finland flooding over their borders. It is not "Danish" gangs that are carrying out grenade attacks in their major cities.

Until the problem is properly recognized, all "solutions" are going to be a swing and a miss.

BanditLuke

Jane98 wrote: »

Interesting article.

https://theliberal.ie/sweden-to-introduce-new-laws-on-citizenship-requiring-migrants-to-speak-swedish-and-be-able-to-support-themselves-before-they-are-granted-citizenship/

May be too little too late for Sweden.

clytemnestra

HotDudeLife wrote: »

Childhood friend of mine working as an accountant busted his a**e for 10 years saving every penny to buy a home for his family, finally got a deposit and decent salary and purchased a house in Hollystown, Dublin 15 for >400k.

Guess who moved in a few doors down for free.

It's pretty much a given in certain areas that new council estates will have at least half of their units allocated to non-EU "graduates" of DP. Local upset and anger is conveniently reframed as racism and the grievance gravy train rolls on. It is a definite factor in opposition to social housing anywhere, and given what's coming out of Blanch, Balbriggan and Tallaght, can you blame them?

Topgear on Dave

HotDudeLife wrote: »

Childhood friend of mine working as an accountant busted his a**e for 10 years saving every penny to buy a home for his family, finally got a deposit and decent salary and purchased a house in Hollystown, Dublin 15 for >400k.

Guess who moved in a few doors down for free.

Leo ?

seenitall

Deleted User wrote: »

From my experience with the nationalities spread throughout the region, the cultures are dodgy to the hilt. Maybe it was the Eastern influence, perhaps it was the addition of Islam to the mix, perhaps.. I honestly don't know... but while they're often very friendly, there's a... flexibility towards honesty and other values which tend to have greater importance in the west. The attitudes and behavior make me feel that they're closer to being M.Eastern than European.

Yes, the Balkans area is a mixture of east and west culturally. And not just in the areas with a lot of Islam present. The racism in some of these nations is almost unbelievable to a regular westerner. A typical Joe in the street is of a firm belief that black people are no more than apes who can speak (thus all the banana-throwing towards black players in football matches). These are hard peoples, with very turbulent and tortured histories throughout; the area is a political pressure-cooker. Politicians like Orban (and others in the region, not to be singling out Hungary and its people) well understand that taking in, ahem, climate refugees would quickly lead to a spectacular sihtshow to the detriment of everyone concerned. It would (and could yet) be done on a very protracted boil-the-frog basis, however most of these countries make up one area of Europe where I don’t have many concerns that the whole dogmatic wokeness around the issue of migrants will be viable for a good while yet. And by the stage one could dream to expect it to become so in the fullness of time, Western Europe will long have been singing from a different hymn sheet altogether, anyway.

Ash.J.Williams

Jane98 wrote: »

Interesting article.

https://theliberal.ie/sweden-to-introduce-new-laws-on-citizenship-requiring-migrants-to-speak-swedish-and-be-able-to-support-themselves-before-they-are-granted-citizenship/

Sounds like reliable info

St. Lupulin

HotDudeLife wrote: »

Childhood friend of mine working as an accountant busted his a**e for 10 years saving every penny to buy a home for his family, finally got a deposit and decent salary and purchased a house in Hollystown, Dublin 15 for >400k.

Guess who moved in a few doors down for free.

I have never felt more sorry for a fictional character in all my life.


Send my condolences.

seenitall

seenitall wrote: »

Yes, the Balkans area is a mixture of east and west culturally. And not just in the areas with a lot of Islam present. The racism in some of these nations is almost unbelievable to a regular westerner. A typical Joe in the street is of a firm belief that black people are no more than apes who can speak (thus all the banana-throwing towards black players in football matches).

Ahh.. racism.. no.. that's not my issue with the Balkans. You see, I would consider myself rather realistic and practical when it comes to racism. I don't hold to these double standards that seem the rage these days.

Every nation has parts of its society who are racist. Whether that's the people living deep in the countryside, or in strictly populated ethnic groupings within a city, we have racism everywhere. Now.. I don't see that as being a particularly bad thing.. it's just the way humanity is. We are generally uncomfortable with those who are obviously different from ourselves, and while experience can mitigate that discomfort, it's also likely to reinforce racial stereotypes, and reinforce preconceived notions about others.

I spent a lot of time in Continental Europe as a teenager. My parents bought a little caravan when we were kids, and the subsequent decade or so, we spent motoring around Europe, and experiencing "all" that it could offer.. and as I picked up a variety of phrases and expressions in various languages, I managed to meet a wide range of people from different countries... and the one common thing was.. a degree of racism. Not the foaming in the mouth Nazi racism that is so often spoken of, nor the white supremacy, but simply a discomfort when it came to other races, and often, other nationalities. There was nothing evil or mean in it.. it was commonplace, and general politeness would generally kick in before it manifested into anything more obvious.

So.. no.. I don't buy into this belief that western nations are/were less racist than others. We just keep telling ourselves and others that we are... Although considering how much the perception about racism has changed over the last few decades, it's a wonder we know whether we are actually racist or not.

These are hard peoples, with very turbulent and tortured histories throughout; the area is a political pressure-cooker. Politicians like Orban (and others in the region, not to be singling out Hungary and its people) well understand that taking in, ahem, climate refugees would quickly lead to a spectacular sihtshow to the detriment of everyone concerned. It would (and could yet) be done on a very protracted boil-the-frog basis, however most of these countries make up one area of Europe where I don’t have many concerns that the whole dogmatic wokeness around the issue of migrants will be viable for a good while yet. And by the stage one could dream to expect it to become so in the fullness of time, Western Europe will long have been singing from a different hymn sheet altogether, anyway.

Yup, the hardness is definitely there, although the same hardness can be seen throughout Eastern Europe and Russia. I think it's more to do with the degree of corruption that exists at most levels of society and culture. They'll take advantage of the whole wokeness crap going on in Western Europe, while managing to deflect it away from their own societies, which retain a strong sense of traditional thinking, and more rigid social hierarchies.

In any case, for my own part, most of my own experiences with people from the Balkan region has been dodgy. A greater emphasis on dabbling with the illegal or shay side of things, which is often reflected in their own culture, which is why I wouldn't be terribly keen on them being accepted as the same as any other Europeans. But, that's just me.. I guess others are more.. open-minded.

seenitall

Oh I agree, a lot of corruption and bending the rules going on, since times immemorial really. It’s a whole different mindset to the west; there is no nurturing of the concept of fair play to speak of, for starters. Mind you, human nature being what it is, you will find corruption in countries such as Ireland or dunno, Sweden, I’m sure, it’s just that in the west the problem isn’t as overt or as brutally omnipresent, the west does tend to put on a better sheen on it and at least look like it is working on solutions. I do prefer living in Ireland if we’re talking on that score, no contest.

I think the beauty of multiculturalism is the many differences there are in the world.
I would hate to be the type of person that judges all people because they are different to Irish/western white society.
The funny thing is, western white society varies widely in western white countries!
I would imagine it's tiring, having to judge people all the time based on where they are from.

DeadHand

Another nebulous, personalised non-point.

We’re still yet to see a strong argument for why demographically transformative mass immigration and an adherence to multiculturalism benefits native populations outside of the tiny business and political elite who promote, profit from and protect those processes.

Meanwhile, events and the reality on the ground evidence that it is a terrible, ongoing crime started in greed and a mistake protected in naivety.

Whether you want to talk about pressure on finite space and resources, hair trigger rioting, rape gangs, ghettoisation, the resuscitation of the (real) Far Right, the increasing influence of Islamism as a socio-political force in societies where it lacks any historical presence, the incremental assault on European freedoms of thought and expression or the hundreds of other grave issues rooted in multiculturalism/mass immigration, the argument against those processes and their fruits does not want for tangible ammunition.

But, hey, food and the “many differences there are in the world”.

DeadHand

What in God’s name is a “white western society” anyway?

Indigenous European peoples happen to have light complexions, to greatly varying degrees. This remains a superficial, genetic feature not a culturally defining identifier.

There is a Western society, a European society and an Irish society. King would likely argue that these societies should be judged and defined by their content and character rather than the predominant skin tones among their members.

This cultish race obsession, this insistence on racialising language and every single issue has us on a worrying path.

Mules

kildare lad wrote: »

Surprise surprise

https://twitter.com/TinaMacVeigh/status/1380257025553227783?s=20

https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerSP/status/1379933879453290500?s=20

They are very irresponsible. I'm pleasantly surprised that Sinn Fein hasn't jumped on that bandwagon. I'd say word from the top ensured it because they have some woke/socialist types too.

Mules

I remember reading something from the UN about Ireland getting rid of direct provision. They emphasised that people not eligible for asylum will have to be deported in a timely manner to ensure faith in the system. It's mad that the UN of all groups is warning the government to deport people. If an Irish politician called for deportations they'd be accused of racism

Arthur Daley

Even in death the heads of the royal family are quizzed by an increasingly trashy media.

Jeremy Vine once considered a serious BBC journalist was trying to stir things up by suggesting Prince Phillip's funeral was 'too white'. The 30 people allowed are all white, and is this acceptable?

It's the man's family you dipstick!

Shows how far we have been dragged by sensationalist elements of the media and those you think have power and respect may not have that much at all.

TomTomTim

Interesting. This would have been viewed as a completely sane decision in the west not so long ago, now it would be viewed as radical.


https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/1383264077850374153

I haven't read the whole thread, only the first and last pages, so apologies if this point has already been made.

It's saddening to me that multiculturalism has retained so much respect from people on the Left. Multiculturalism is a classical liberal idea, which champions the liberty of the individual, and reduces society to notional personal identities. It is just as much a part of the atomisation of society as they liberal economic reforms of the 1980s.

People on the Left should be intending to build coalitions based on shared values (such as dignity at work, equality, and non-oppression), not advocating causes that atomise and fragment our society.

You see the same thing with the politicization of race and gender — well-meaning people going out of their way to divide the society into tinier and yet tinier units, utterly weak. They seem very pleased with themselves, but not as pleased as those who argue that society is a myth.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You see the same thing with the politicization of race and gender — well-meaning people going out of their way to divide the society into tinier and yet tinier units, utterly weak. They seem very pleased with themselves, but not as pleased as those who argue that society is a myth.

Well-meaning people who are guaranteeing true racial/identity conflict in the future. I dunno... it's pretty obvious what is going to happen. By creating protections and elevating certain groups over others, and reinforcing the differences between those groups (emphasising race, gender, etc as identifiers), they're encouraging an Us vs Them mentality to form. Which will be compounded by the racial demographic shifts where people form tribal communities, based on their race, which also tends to encourage traditional thinking from their host cultures/religions, in turn, furthering divides.

I'm not so sure that they are well-meaning people... because their focus is so narrow. They've intentionally blind-sighted themselves so that they're unaware of the big picture or broader implications of encouraging separate identities beyond that of national allegiances.

Equality is a becoming more and more of a pipedream, since they're seeking further ways to reinforce differences based on race, gender, class, etc. We were moving away from class as an identifier, and now we're swinging back to it once more. All because these people need to promote their chosen groups as being victims, so they grasp at any number of identifiers to box people into being victims, and therefore needing help. And since all victims need a bully or aggressor, this further encourages divisions by casting others as being responsible.

There was a time, when all of this was new, and I could have believed that these people were well-meaning.. but I don't any longer. Most of those involved in this stuff are well-educated. They have the ability to see the society that they're encouraging to evolve..

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread, only the first and last pages, so apologies if this point has already been made.

It's saddening to me that multiculturalism has retained so much respect from people on the Left. Multiculturalism is a classical liberal idea, which champions the liberty of the individual, and reduces society to notional personal identities. It is just as much a part of the atomisation of society as they liberal economic reforms of the 1980s.

People on the Left should be intending to build coalitions based on shared values (such as dignity at work, equality, and non-oppression), not advocating causes that atomise and fragment our society.

You see the same thing with the politicization of race and gender — well-meaning people going out of their way to divide the society into tinier and yet tinier units, utterly weak. They seem very pleased with themselves, but not as pleased as those who argue that society is a myth.

Great point.

Lemon Davis lll

Chinese man overstays student visa, buys a legitimate NI birth cert & is issued an Irish passport under a false name.

On foot of the passport shenanigans, he then obtains a driving licence, a taxi licence, a Public Service Card and a mortgage. Loved the line from his Counsel that many people in the US from this country were living such lives as his client lived here.

This chaps been a grifter from the get go and common sense alone would point to the conclusion he should be out on his ear.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-lived-under-false-name-for-eight-years-1.4543878

clytemnestra

Lemon Davis lll wrote: »

Chinese man overstays student visa, buys a legitimate NI birth cert & is issued an Irish passport under a false name.

On foot of the passport shenanigans, he then obtains a driving licence, a taxi licence, a Public Service Card and a mortgage. Loved the line from his Counsel that many people in the US from this country were living such lives as his client lived here.

This chaps been a grifter from the get go and common sense alone would point to the conclusion he should be out on his ear.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-lived-under-false-name-for-eight-years-1.4543878

I wonder if this is the tip of a particular iceberg. We already have many here illegally but I wonder how many granted citizenship took advantage of weak spots in our public records system, passport application process etc?

Burkie1203

WTF

https://twitter.com/JRD0000/status/1385341491854336000?s=19

DerekC16

clytemnestra wrote: »

I wonder if this is the tip of a particular iceberg. We already have many here illegally but I wonder how many granted citizenship took advantage of weak spots in our public records system, passport application process etc?

For sure. Theres 100s of thousands of illegals in Dublin.

ThunbergsAreGo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

WTF

https://twitter.com/JRD0000/status/1385341491854336000?s=19

Good to see their priorities are right, at least they'll pay now.

Meanwhile we'll see mass emigration of Irish post covid