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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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    #7472
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    WTF

    https://twitter.com/JRD0000/status/1385341491854336000?s=19

    Jesus christ... and ofcourse muggins here will be expected to pay for them


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    #7473
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Jesus christ... and ofcourse muggins here will be expected to pay for them

    What do you think you will have to pay for?


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    #7474
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What do you think you will have to pay for?

    Social housing, social welfare , education, prison spaces, gardai, court fees etc...

    Id rather pay for 17,000 one way plane tickets


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    #7475
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Social housing, social welfare , education, prison spaces, gardai, court fees etc...

    Id rather pay for 17,000 one way plane tickets

    But those people are already living here, they are clearly looking after themselves as they cannot claim social welfare.
    I would prefer 17,000 people working and paying their own way then the thousands of people we have in this country getting everything spoonfed to them.

    Prison spaces and gardai? You will have to explain this one, you think that 17,000 people, who we will assume have been law abiding up till now are suddenly going to turn into massive criminals and end up in prison?
    Crazy thinking Eric.

    Btw, there won't be anymore spending on any of those things.


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    #7476
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    But those people are already living here, they are clearly looking after themselves as they cannot claim social welfare.
    I would prefer 17,000 people working and paying their own way then the thousands of people we have in this country getting everything spoonfed to them.

    Prison spaces and gardai? You will have to explain this one, you think that 17,000 people, who we will assume have been law abiding up till now are suddenly going to turn into massive criminals and end up in prison?
    Crazy thinking Eric.

    Btw, there won't be anymore spending on any of those things.

    I would suspect many have been working in kitchens for half nothing and given a chance will absolutely jump on to social welfare instead. Also social housing lists instead of remaining in cramped shacks etc...

    All of these people are already criminals, entering illegally, working illegally, not paying tax etc.. if you think thats the only illegal things their morality will let them do then I thinks its naive.


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    #7477
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    bubblypop wrote: »
    But those people are already living here, they are clearly looking after themselves as they cannot claim social welfare.
    How are they paying income tax?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #7478
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I would suspect many have been working in kitchens for half nothing and given a chance will absolutely jump on to social welfare instead. Also social housing lists instead of remaining in cramped shacks etc...

    All of these people are already criminals, entering illegally, working illegally, not paying tax etc.. if you think thats the only illegal things their morality will let them do then I thinks its naive.

    Ah you suspect!
    So something you made up in your head.
    Right :)
    You know nothing about their morality of otherwise, non tax payers? We wouldn't have enough prison space to put all the tax dodgers into !

    You know what you should actually be worried about?
    The amount of people living here, completely legally, and we have no idea who they are or anything about them.
    There are criminals living perfectly quiet lived here, completely legally. No requirement for anyone to register anywhere to live in this country.


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    #7479
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    How are they paying income tax?

    I'm assuming, like thousands of others in the country that they are not. They will be in future though.
    We would be a long time locking up tax dodgers in this country.


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    #7480
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    You can expect that 17,000 figure to rise rapidly and be joined by the unprecedented, ruinous influx the insane changes to DP will cause.

    There was no demand for this from the Irish nation.

    We will soon have de facto open borders. For the first time in my life, we have extremists in government implementing radical, dangerous policies that Irish people did not want or ask for.

    Our children will suffer more than us. They will not have a familiar and comfortable homeland as we did. They will need to negotiate a society in which they are despised. It is they that will be strangers in our cities.

    They’ll live in an Ireland so much more tense, divided, unfriendly and violent than the one we inherited.


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    #7481
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I'm assuming, like thousands of others in the country that they are not. They will be in future though.
    We would be a long time locking up tax dodgers in this country.

    “They will in the future” come off it... even if some of those 17,000 did work, and if an even tinier percentage worked hard enough to actually pay tax, the ones that won’t work at all will still suck so much out of the system that those who do pay wont offset it. With the stroke of a pen the government further burdening us with debt for no good reason and with that lit a giant neon sign to the rest of the world saying “free houses and piss easy access to the EU over here lads”


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    #7482
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    “They will in the future” come off it... even if some of those 17,000 did work, and if an even tinier percentage worked hard enough to actually pay tax, the ones that won’t work at all will still suck so much out of the system that those who do pay wont offset it. With the stroke of a pen the government further burdening us with debt for no good reason and with that lit a giant neon sign to the rest of the world saying “free houses and piss easy access to the EU over here lads”

    They may well be. But the whole system of social welfare in this country just rewards people who don't want to work. I would be happier seeing people with a proven track record of working and looking after themselves be allowed to stay and do just that, then see the layabouts we already have, squeezing more out of the system.
    I really don't understand your idea that these people are going to do that? That is in your head, with no evidence at all.
    Crazy thinking Eric.


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    #7483
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    bubblypop wrote: »
    They may well be. But the whole system of social welfare in this country just rewards people who don't want to work. I would be happier seeing people with a proven track record of working and looking after themselves be allowed to stay and do just that, then see the layabouts we already have, squeezing more out of the system.
    I really don't understand your idea that these people are going to do that? That is in your head, with no evidence at all.
    Crazy thinking Eric.

    Or how about just because we have problems in sections of society that are legally here / born here, we don't start using that as an excuse to allow thousands of criminals keep taking the piss out of our immigration system.


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    #7484
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jane98 wrote: »
    Interesting article.

    https://theliberal.ie/sweden-to-introduce-new-laws-on-citizenship-requiring-migrants-to-speak-swedish-and-be-able-to-support-themselves-before-they-are-granted-citizenship/

    You're having a laugh with that. The article is from a trash website that has a far right racist hate agenda. The website editor has been found to frequently make stuff up and to copy other journalists work.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7485
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Or how about just because we have problems in sections of society that are legally here / born here, we don't start using that as an excuse to allow thousands of criminals keep taking the piss out of our immigration system.

    Who is allowing thousands of criminals to take the piss?


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    #7486
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Annasopra wrote: »
    You're having a laugh with that. The article is from a trash website that has a far right racist hate agenda. The website editor has been found to frequently make stuff up and to copy other journalists work.

    You should do some research before you speak. You've went straight to attacking the source without even looking to see if it was true or not. It is true by the way, I've found in on Swedish news sites, which you could of too if you did any research.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #7487
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    You should do some research before you speak. You've went straight to attacking the source without even looking to see if it was true or not. It is true by the way, I've found in on Swedish news sites, which you could of too if you did any research.

    Yes. Exactly. The source isnt credible. You're not even disputing that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7488
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Annasopra wrote: »
    Yes. Exactly. The source isnt credible.

    The substance is though, so in this instance there's no problem with the sources work.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Options
    #7489
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    bubblypop wrote: »
    They may well be. But the whole system of social welfare in this country just rewards people who don't want to work. I would be happier seeing people with a proven track record of working and looking after themselves be allowed to stay and do just that, then see the layabouts we already have, squeezing more out of the system.
    I really don't understand your idea that these people are going to do that? That is in your head, with no evidence at all.
    Crazy thinking Eric.

    UCL ran a study in the UK that found that Non-EU migrants took out £120 billion more in benefits than they contributed in tax between 1995-2011. And this is counting the highly skilled amongst the rest.

    Conversely, EU migrants paid in a surplus of £20 billion during that period.

    Non-EU migrants to Ireland are not going to pay for pensions, no matter what the woolly-headed think. They will be a net deficit, that will require more money doled out than they will contribute. So O'Gorman's lunacy is just going to lumber us with more and more debt and higher tax to pay for this "brotherhood of man" fantasy.


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    #7490
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Annasopra wrote: »
    The website editor has been found to frequently make stuff up and to copy other journalists work.


    Is this the journal?


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    #7491
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    The substance is though, so in this instance there's no problem with the sources work.

    The source has a racist agenda.

    The source frames the story racistly using particular language and images.

    How can people in this thread who go out of their way to say they are not racist be taken seriously when they are sharing links from racist websites.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7492
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Who is allowing thousands of criminals to take the piss?

    What does illegal mean?


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    #7493
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Annasopra wrote: »
    The source has a racist agenda.

    The source frames the story racistly using particular language and images.

    How can people in this thread who go out of their way to say they are not racist be taken seriously when they are sharing links from racist websites.

    Well... Cheers for that. A single poster provides a link, and suddenly we're all responsible for the sharing of that link.

    Come on. You've been on boards long enough not to pander to that kind of retarded logic.


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    #7494
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mike Murdock wrote: »
    UCL ran a study in the UK that found that Non-EU migrants took out £120 billion more in benefits than they contributed in tax between 1997-2011. And this is counting the highly skilled amongst the rest.

    Conversely, EU migrants paid in a surplus of £20 billion during that period.

    Non-EU migrants to Ireland are not going to pay for pensions, no matter what the woolly-headed think. They will be a net deficit, that will require more money doled out than they will contribute. So O'Gorman's lunacy is just going to lumber us with more and more debt and higher tax to pay for this fantasy.

    I would suggest that non EU migrants will always be a higher percentage in Britain than Ireland.
    I'm not sure the study could be comparable.
    As for them paying pensions? No, some might contribute more then others. This particular group have shown they can look after themselves, so I wouldn't have a big issue with them being made legal.


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    #7495
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Well... Cheers for that. A single poster provides a link, and suddenly we're all responsible for the sharing of that link.

    Come on. You've been on boards long enough not to pander to that kind of retarded logic.

    It is a racist link from a racist website. A good few posters happy to accept it and discuss that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7496
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Annasopra wrote: »
    It is a racist link from a racist website. A good few posters happy to accept it and discuss that.

    Cool, so can't argue against the material, you just argue against the source. Doesn't matter where it's from if it's accurate or not.

    It might be from outside boards, but the old attack the post, not the poster mantra should still apply.


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    #7497
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Annasopra wrote: »
    It is a racist link from a racist website. A good few posters happy to accept it and discuss that.

    Its a site that takes editorial liberties, copies other journos work and has serious questions around competition winners absolutely... but I fail to see how its a ‘racist website’ let alone how that link is a ‘racist link’


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    #7498
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Annasopra wrote: »
    It is a racist link from a racist website. A good few posters happy to accept it and discuss that.

    Three posters liked the original posting of the link. I didn't. Again, a few people discussed it. Whereas the majority of the posters to the thread have been accused of racism, myself included. Which you have compounded by suggesting that the people who had been accused of racism were sharing this link and giving it credibility.

    You're doing the same as the posters who make sweeping statements about the posters on this thread... stick to discrediting the link. Not the posters on this thread.


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    #7499
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Three posters liked the original posting of the link. I didn't. Again, a few people discussed it. Whereas the majority of the posters to the thread have been accused of racism, myself included. Which you have compounded by suggesting that the people who had been accused of racism were sharing this link and giving it credibility.

    You're doing the same as the posters who make sweeping statements about the posters on this thread... stick to discrediting the link. Not the posters on this thread.

    Would you believe me if I told you that said poster has been active in two recent feedback threads trying to get certain topics shut down? Said poster is now here screaming racism. I wonder why?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Options
    #7500
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    DeadHand wrote: »
    They’ll live in an Ireland so much more tense, divided, unfriendly and violent than the one we inherited.
    Which are the results of this wonderful "diversity" wherever we look. Not just in "multicultural" West either. Any nation, Black, White, Yellow, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, it doesn't seem to matter, where a sizeable minority exists is near guaranteed to have societal problems. It seems we can't socially engineer human nature no matter how much we try or hope to.

    Ireland has decided - or rather its political class have decided - that we must go down this bullshít 'diversity" path too, generations after we could see how its impacted our neighbours. Not just the "natives" either, it's not too great for many of the migrant demographics and over the generations with it. Pick any melting pot and try and find one where non native folks are less likely to be unemployed, poorer, undereducated, or in prison than the natives.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well... Cheers for that. A single poster provides a link, and suddenly we're all responsible for the sharing of that link.

    Come on. You've been on boards long enough not to pander to that kind of retarded logic.
    Well as we've noted throughout this thread's existence, the pro multicultural posters have, beyond vague notions of exoticism and charity, almost no answers to the big questions around this politic, so their only defence has been either go rogue and attack the posters and/or point to one post or poster and shout racism as loudly as they can.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #7501
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    “They will in the future” come off it... even if some of those 17,000 did work, and if an even tinier percentage worked hard enough to actually pay tax, the ones that won’t work at all will still suck so much out of the system that those who do pay wont offset it. With the stroke of a pen the government further burdening us with debt for no good reason and with that lit a giant neon sign to the rest of the world saying “free houses and piss easy access to the EU over here lads”

    It's not just that, although the costs are important. It's what comes after. There's a habit of ignoring the cultural differences between countries, especially when it comes to corruption, or social values. Many of the illegals who are here come from countries with high degrees of corruption as part of their cultural behavior, with little appreciation for the following of laws.

    Many of these illegals will have had relatively good lives here already, by breaking the law. They will have availed themselves of a variety of State supports/welfare while here, because many departments won't exclude those without documentation, and on top of that, there's a range of services which are made available to everyone, regardless of whether they were taxpayers or not. The point being that they've already managed to twist the system to benefit themselves, in many cases, for extended periods of time.

    Do we really believe that these people will suddenly take on the tax burdens/costs that the rest of Irish people have been experiencing? That they will suddenly start respecting our laws, and the way of life here? That they won't continue to apply their own perspective of corruption, and the bending of systems to benefit themselves?

    This is a bad precedent to set.


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