What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Eric Cartman

EddieN75 wrote: »

On the migrants rights centre Ireland Facebook page the announcement from the minister of justice has been pasted with great fanfare.

People are commenting saying it's about time the undocumented received "justice"

There are also people commenting saying things such as " I'm undocumented, this is great news"

Openly admitting to being illegally in the country.

There is no reasoning with people who rebrand illegal immigrants as ‘undocumented’ to lessen their crimes

Fandymo

EddieN75 wrote: »

On the migrants rights centre Ireland Facebook page the announcement from the minister of justice has been pasted with great fanfare.

People are commenting saying it's about time the undocumented received "justice"

There are also people commenting saying things such as " I'm undocumented, this is great news"

Openly admitting to being illegally in the country.

Bombard Ms McEntee with emails. I’ve sent one to her already.

Hi Helen,

With your announcement of your scheme to regularise illegal immigrants in Ireland, I was wondering if there are any other laws in Ireland that you will be changing to reward people for breaking them? For example, if I assault someone, will I be given boxing lessons? Or if I steal a car will I be given a voucher to receive a car of my choice from Joe Duffy Motors? If I’m caught with a knife, will I be given a gun?

Why are people who have broken the law being rewarded? It makes no sense at all. Why have a law, if it is ignored, or in this case, rewards for breaking it?

I look forward to your response,

EddieN75

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no reasoning with people who rebrand illegal immigrants as ‘undocumented’ to lessen their crimes

Maybe when said people are pushed even further down the housing list because a whole cohort of folks have suddenly become eligible for state welfare which includes housing they might change their tune.

Also after the illegal suddenly become legal, family reunification is sure to follow. 17k becomes 50k

Wibbs

EddieN75 wrote: »

Minister McEntee and James Browne TD, the Minister of State for Law Reform, James Browne, will hold an information webinar with NGOs, civil society, employer organisations, trade unions and other key stakeholders on Monday, April 26th, on the proposed Regularisation Scheme for long-term Undocumented Migrants"


Can members of the public tune in the witness the webinar? We are stakeholders

Who knows? Those listed are the "stakeholders", the public not so much. The actual public(including the migrants and their descendants) who will be and have been affected by one of the largest demographic changes and certainly one of the fastest in the history of this island. Now one can hold that multiculturalism is either a 100% boon or a 100% bust, but neither position can claim with a straight face that it's not one of the most fundamental shifts in a nation's culture and future, and yet nations and in this case the Irish voters don't get to vote on it. Divorce, SSM, Choice, all fundamental shifts in a culture, but we got to vote on them.

To all those who voted on the above changes, no matter which way we voted, would we have been comfortable if Divorce, SSM and Choice had been decided by NGO's, civil societies and employers groups and the government without going to the polls? Especially if previous votes had strongly suggested the Irish public wouldn't agree with their stated choices. I doubt it, though it's not so long ago something like divorce, SSM and choice was indeed decided upon from on high by a previous political class and another "church" we were told to worship at.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

"Other than that you can compete with the world for a h1 visa sponsored by an employer again and these might have stopped due to covid"

My thoughts. Work or study. The best ways to get into a country, and Irish people have the advantage since there are so many companies that are willing to sponsor Irish people for work. It's not that difficult since most Irish people have the opportunities to achieve a relatively high level of education before going to the US.

I've done fixed term contract work in the US twice. I had no problems getting the visa, and that was at a time when I only had a Bachelor degree.

Yeah I've done the same, basically I started with an intra company transfer visa but those visas are non immigrant, the company could have you there for ten years on that visa, as soon as you leave the job, you have zero years accumulated in respect of a green card application, so if your goal was actually to immigrate you are goosed. If you make movements for an immigrant visa, it may be in the companies interest to block that avenue, after all they have you in a highly dependant relationship.

I'm not saying it's impossible, you can get a h1 for six years and apply for a green card but its just difficult and probably not an attainable goal for 80% of people.


I say this as a us immigrant.

Eric Cartman

EddieN75 wrote: »

Maybe when said people are pushed even further down the housing list because a whole cohort of folks have suddenly become eligible for state welfare which includes housing they might change their tune.

Also after the illegal suddenly become legal, family reunification is sure to follow. 17k becomes 50k

Thats it , and those hollering and hooting in support of all this are living in a fantasy land where the majority of these people will be self supporting , the reality of it is with the stroke of a pen we are adding 50,000 people to our housing lists and welfare receipts

combat14

dont think irish people were ever asked their views on this matter and wont be till its too late to make any difference

house prices have gone up inexorably as numbers of people here have risen primarily due to inward migration

there are of course positive aspects too - but migration of course needs to be managed to a certain extent

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

Yeah I've done the same, basically I started with an intra company transfer visa but those visas are non immigrant, the company could have you there for ten years on that visa, as soon as you leave the job, you have zero years accumulated in respect of a green card application, so if your goal was actually to immigrate you are goosed. If you make movements for an immigrant visa, it may be in the companies interest to block that avenue, after all they have you in a highly dependant relationship.

I'm not saying it's impossible, you can get a h1 for six years and apply for a green card but its just difficult and probably not an attainable goal for 80% of people.


I say this as a us immigrant.

Ahh, we're talking about different situations. The desire to stay permanently in the US, vs those wanting to work/experience it for a few years and then return home after. Yes, getting the right to stay permanently in the US can be difficult depending on your experience, qualifications, wealth, and contacts.

However, TBH, I've met very few Irish who went to the US with the initial desire to live there forever. Most went for a gap period, or to gain work experience before coming back to Ireland to settle.

I wonder what the statistics are about those illegals and whether they're aiming to stay permanently, or simply exist for a few years..

I had little desire to live in the US before I went there, and my time there actually convinced me that I wouldn't want to be there long-term. Which i why I ended up going to Oz next, and then in Asia.. but I've never considered myself to be permanently settling anywhere. I tend to move cities/countries every few years.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh, we're talking about different situations. The desire to stay permanently in the US, vs those wanting to work/experience it for a few years and then return home after. Yes, getting the right to stay permanently in the US can be difficult depending on your experience, qualifications, wealth, and contacts.

However, TBH, I've met very few Irish who went to the US with the initial desire to live there forever. Most went for a gap period, or to gain work experience before coming back to Ireland to settle.

I wonder what the statistics are about those illegals and whether they're aiming to stay permanently, or simply exist for a few years..

I had little desire to live in the US before I went there, and my time there actually convinced me that I wouldn't want to be there long-term. Which i why I ended up going to Oz next, and then in Asia.. but I've never considered myself to be permanently settling anywhere. I tend to move cities/countries every few years.

A woman ended my galavanting days. It's a nice lifestyle and forces you to keep growing and changing.

Cordell

Well I guess all important issues are solved, including the traditional hospital overcrowding and housing crisis and it was the time to turn their attention to this particular issue.
I mean demanding that legal and tax paying residents to be top priority is racist or something.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

A woman ended my galavanting days. It's a nice lifestyle and forces you to keep growing and changing.

Life generally forces you to keep growing and changing, unless you create a box of unmovable boundaries to limit yourself. Which many people do.. I did it myself when I was young.

I majored in Business/Finance, worked professionally for over a decade, mostly in credit control, and then got pushed into management. From there I swung into cultural training, then management training, then as an English teacher, and finally as a Management lecturer. Did a very brief stint as a games developer in Japan too. Each role required different skills, and knowledge. Each role, typically, was in a different location first in Ireland, but then, internationally.

I'm still unmarried, and expect to remain that way... simply because I love the freedom of being able to move around whenever I wish. Although I haven't ruled out settling down and getting married... being open to growing and changing. Remaining flexible, but ultimately doing what makes me happy.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Visiting, sure. Playing tourist, definitely. But would you honestly want to live there? Better yet, would you want their cultural perception regarding corruption and authority to become commonplace in Ireland/Western Europe? I wouldn't.

There are naturally many positives to the cultures in the Balkans, but there's heaps of negatives too.

I lived there, their corruption had no impact on me.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I lived there, their corruption had no impact on me.

As usual, you missed the point completely. (and no, don't take this post as a suggestion that I'm going to enter into a discussion with you. I've tried that numerous times before, and it's always been a disaster)

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

I lived there, their corruption had no impact on me.

Maybe not on you personally Bubblypop as an expat, but for sure, independence has not worked out for them as they had expected and hoped for. I still have a lot of friends there, and am in regular contact with them. Massive corruption,with a large Albanian mafia presence running things, has led to it being called a narco state.They are staking their hopes for a better future on the outcome of the recent elections where Albin Kurti and the Vetevendosje party won a landslide victory. But it will be an uphill battle. If you were a permanent resident there, you might find that it would affect you.

Yep, it most probably would.
In the same way that corruption in this country affects me here.
Corruption!

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, it most probably would.
In the same way that corruption in this country affects me here.
Corruption!

Corruption affects everyone Bubblypop...every war on the planet has its root's in corruption, but to equate the corruption here in Ireland, and the mafia corruption to be found in the Balkans in general and the Albanian mafia in Kosovo in particular is like saying cheese is like chalk. ( or vice versa)Trust me Bubbypops, I've seen it in action, and its not pretty, quite the opposite in fact.

I do trust you and I know it's ugly.
But here in Ireland we like to think we are better then everyone else. It may be a different type of corruption and it maybe hidden, but we still have corruption.
The amount of money wasted in this country and (yes still) used in bribery, is disgraceful.
Anyway, I guess that's a bit off topic. I agree Ireland is in general a good place to live. Doesn't mean that we are automatically better then others.
And, not wanting people from certain countries to live here because we see ourselves as 'better' then them? Nope.

clytemnestra

We don't want people who got here through dishonest means, who don't support themselves and their families, who don't integrate socially, who consume massive amounts of scarce finite resources like healthcare, welfare, education and housing and give nothing back in taxes. It's usually fairly predictable by now after 20 years who those people are likely to be. We have immigration laws. We share our labour market with the EU and anyone who satisfies the requirements of a work visa. No need for anyone else.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I do trust you and I know it's ugly.
But here in Ireland we like to think we are better then everyone else. It may be a different type of corruption and it maybe hidden, but we still have corruption.
The amount of money wasted in this country and (yes still) used in bribery, is disgraceful.
Anyway, I guess that's a bit off topic. I agree Ireland is in general a good place to live. Doesn't mean that we are automatically better then others.
And, not wanting people from certain countries to live here because we see ourselves as 'better' then them? Nope.

And this is why I don't do discussions with you anymore. You twist. I didn't say that Irish people were better than anyone else. I didn't even come close to suggesting it. I spoke about cultural values and corruption..

And... you twisted until you could talk about a point that nobody has made. :rolleyes: <Slow clap>
[back to my ignore list]

I don't see how a scheme like this doesn't favour 3rd country nationals over Irish and European citizens. If I was an employer it seems like I'd be mad to hire someone I was having to pay employers PRSI etc for when I could get away with just hiring someone else without consequences.

I'm curious what other European countries will say about this and whether Europeans in Ireland will contact their representatives in their Member States, I hope they will. Its manifestly unfair especially to people who are competing for lower paid jobs.

Ireland along with the other EU Member States agreed in 2008 in the pact on migration that there would be no mass regularisation of migrants and that it would only be done on a case by basis. While a pact isn't legally binding (as far as I'm aware) its a pretty poor show for Ireland to break a pact and I hope that they will be called up on it by other Member States

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

I do trust you and I know it's ugly.
But here in Ireland we like to think we are better then everyone else. It may be a different type of corruption and it maybe hidden, but we still have corruption.
The amount of money wasted in this country and (yes still) used in bribery, is disgraceful.
Anyway, I guess that's a bit off topic. I agree Ireland is in general a good place to live. Doesn't mean that we are automatically better then others.
And, not wanting people from certain countries to live here because we see ourselves as 'better' then them? Nope.

And the old cultural equivalence stuff rears its head... The notion are sure we're as bad as any of them nonsense. Add in the insecurity in the Irish psyche and it really digs in.

The plain fact is that all cultures have negatives and positives and some are quite simply worse than others and some are quite simply better. The same cultural equivalence believers seem to forget that cultures have changed over time and in the west they've gotten better for more and more people within them. If cultures were all grand really then that change couldn't have happened, or couldn't be measured and it did and it can.

Burkie1203

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

EddieN75

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

https://twitter.com/ivyblonde3/status/1386248988102381568?s=20


We need to do more

mohawk

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

Police Abolition FFS. Are we supposed to let gangs run amok killing whoever they want? It’s not the US, why are these American talking points being brought over here. We have loads of scumbags not in jail because they told the judge they had such a tough upbringing.

Eric Cartman

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

How does twitter continuously allow such racism to have a platform.

Real Donald Trump

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

Sounds about right in clown world

prishtinaboy99

jmreire wrote: »

Corruption affects everyone Bubblypop...every war on the planet has its root's in corruption, but to equate the corruption here in Ireland, and the mafia corruption to be found in the Balkans in general and the Albanian mafia in Kosovo in particular is like saying cheese is like chalk. ( or vice versa)Trust me Bubbypops, I've seen it in action, and its not pretty, quite the opposite in fact.

Do you think that the carry on there is any worse than the Hutches/Kinihans or the boys down in Limerick.

Sadler Peak

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Equality

https://twitter.com/merj_ireland/status/1385264157113585667?s=19

https://twitter.com/stone_toss/status/1381975943670083588

jmreire

prishtinaboy99 wrote: »

Do you think that the carry on there is any worse than the Hutches/Kinihans or the boys down in Limerick.

Google "Albanian Mafia", and Kosovo body parts trade. See what you think yourself.

EddieN75

https://twitter.com/Ben_Scallan/status/1387080303915769860?s=20


Justice minister dodges question regarding illegal immigrant amnesty