What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Google "Albanian Mafia", and Kosovo body parts trade. See what you think yourself.

Pretty sure this is very famous, it's not the first body parts trading that went on in Kosovo. But I'm not getting the point here? Terrible crimes happen everywhere? Or do you think that this particular crime is worse then others? I'm honestly not being smart here, it's obviously a terrible thing to happen. I
But horrendous crimes happen here too, unfortunately.

jmayo

Jaysus Bubblypop you are some spoofer.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Jaysus Bubblypop you are some spoofer.

Wha?
Why?
I'm serious! That's horrendous of course, I'm just wondering what the point is?

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Pretty sure this is very famous, it's not the first body parts trading that went on in Kosovo. But I'm not getting the point here? Terrible crimes happen everywhere? Or do you think that this particular crime is worse then others? I'm honestly not being smart here, it's obviously a terrible thing to happen. I
But horrendous crimes happen here too, unfortunately.

Bubblypop, the Albanian mafias are reckoned to be amongst the worst in the world, and thats saying something. Its one (if not the main) reason why Kosovo has not been improved since independance. Google ( where would we be without it? ) Albanian Mafia International. Its really shocking how powerfull they have become world wide. But a lot of body parts ( and everything else too...weapons, drugs human trafficking etc ), really took off after the Serbs left.
Theres no such thing as a "good crime", they are all bad, where ever they are committed, Kosovo or Irekand, but some are so bad that they plumb the depths of depravity.And after you reach that point, its only the depth that seperates them.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Bubblypop, the Albanian mafias are reckoned to be amongst the worst in the world, and thats saying something. Its one (if not the main) reason why Kosovo has not been improved since independance. Google ( where would we be without it? ) Albanian Mafia International. Its really shocking how powerfull they have become world wide. But a lot of body parts ( and everything else too...weapons, drugs human trafficking etc ), really took off after the Serbs left.
Theres no such thing as a "good crime", they are all bad, where ever they are committed, Kosovo or Irekand, but some are so bad that they plumb the depths of depravity.And after you reach that point, its only the depth that seperates them.

Yep, I agree with you, I know about the Albanian mafia, I understand what they are like!
I also know all about the organ stealing/body part trafficking since the war.
It's horrendous, absolutely.
Now, tbf, I will say that I may be a little desensitized to horrendous crimes, because I am used to them, to a certain extent.
But all crimes have victims, and all crimes are bad.
People, everywhere, do some sick sick ****, unbelievable stuff.
And I know that anybody can and do commit crime. What can we do? Investigate, punish and support victims, no matter what the crime.

I still wouldn't tar a whole country because of the behaviour of some of their countrymen. Are these posts about the Balkans to prove that we don't want their people in this country?

Kivaro

jmreire wrote: »

Bubblypop, the Albanian mafias are reckoned to be amongst the worst in the world, and thats saying something......

That is indeed true. And how does this play into multiculturalism in Ireland?
When you find that Albania was the top country of origin (along with Georgia) applying for asylum in Ireland a year or two ago, it immediately rang alarm bells in my head at the time. The way that Ireland hands out Irish passports like confetti, you certainly do not want another mafia into the country, that would make 'our' Irish gangs look like altar boys.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

That is indeed true. And how does this play into multiculturalism in Ireland?
When you find that Albania was the top country of origin (along with Georgia) applying for asylum in Ireland a year or two ago, it immediately rang alarm bells in my head at the time. The way that Ireland hands out Irish passports like confetti, you certainly do not want another mafia into the country, that would make 'our' Irish gangs look like altar boys.

I think though that Albanians are one of the highest that are refused asylum here?
I'm not even sure what grounds they are claiming asylum on, but I don't think they are very successful.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, I agree with you, I know about the Albanian mafia, I understand what they are like!
I also know all about the organ stealing/body part trafficking since the war.
It's horrendous, absolutely.
Now, tbf, I will say that I may be a little desensitized to horrendous crimes, because I am used to them, to a certain extent.
But all crimes have victims, and all crimes are bad.
People, everywhere, do some sick sick ****, unbelievable stuff.
And I know that anybody can and do commit crime. What can we do? Investigate, punish and support victims, no matter what the crime.

I still wouldn't tar a whole country because of the behaviour of some of their countrymen. Are these posts about the Balkans to prove that we don't want their people in this country?

Bubblypop, why do you continuously turn a discusion about a fanaticlal religious or criminal minority into a percieved blanket condemnation of the whole population of that Country or Religion?? Its a common thread in your posts. Now I've lived for many years in not only the Balkans, but in many Islamic countrys too,,and I mean hardline Islamic Countrys, isis and taliban controilled..Kosovo's Islam does not even come close, believe me.I have many Muslim friends, and I consider it a privilege to know them. They are welcome in my home anytime. ( and I in theirs ) And they have the very same position that I have regarding radical Islam..simply because radicals have killed may more Muslims than westerners or others. So yes, I'm outspoken about radical Islam, I dont want it or its adherents in this Country, and I comment on it. but please don't construe that as a blanket condemnation of all Muslim's.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Bubblypop, why do you continuously turn a discusion about a fanaticlal religious or criminal minority into a percieved blanket condemnation of the whole population of that Country or Religion?? Its a common thread in your posts. Now I've lived for many years in not only the Balkans, but in many Islamic countrys too,,and I mean hardline Islamic Countrys, isis and taliban controilled..Kosovo's Islam does not even come close, believe me.I have many Muslim friends, and I consider it a privilege to know them. They are welcome in my home anytime. ( and I in theirs ) And they have the very same position that I have regarding radical Islam..simply because radicals have killed may more Muslims than westerners or others. So yes, I'm outspoken about radical Islam, I dont want it or its adherents in this Country, and I comment on it. but please don't construe that as a blanket condemnation of all Muslim's.

If course we don't want radicals in this country. But a post about organ traffickers in Kosovo is hardly relevant?
My issue is not posters that have issues with extremists, the issue is that the majority of posters on this thread do not treat extremists differently to ordinary (muslim) foreigners. They make broad sweeping statements about them all. And you must see it to. It's blatant.
So you may not, but reading the thread, most do.

jmreire

Bubblypop,
Originally Posted by prishtinaboy99 View Post
Do you think that the carry on there is any worse than the Hutches/Kinihans or the boys down in Limerick.

And my answer:-

Google "Albanian Mafia", and Kosovo body parts trade. See what you think yourself.


And thats what it has to do with this thread, until you elaborated on it.

Kivaro

jmayo wrote: »

Jaysus Bubblypop you are some spoofer.

She may be J, and I have her on the ignore list and I only see her quoted posts, but her recent posts are reasonable, and it is very important that we have a dissenting voice on this thread, so I am removing BP from my ignore list based on those posts.

I'm sure that the balloons and confetti are dropping on her head upon this announcement

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

She may be J, and I have her on the ignore list and I only see her quoted posts, but her recent posts are reasonable, and it is very important that we have a dissenting voice on this thread, so I am removing BP from my ignore list based on those posts.

I'm sure that the balloons and confetti are dropping on her head upon this announcement

And big bottles of champagne are popping

But seriously, I think ye may have me all wrong in this thread.

Kivaro

bubblypop wrote: »

And big bottles of champagne are popping

But seriously, I think ye may have me all wrong in this thread.

And I've said it a number of times on here, that my personal preference is for multiculturalism, since I've spent most of my adult life in that environment. But that does not allow me to impose my preference on the people of this country. And of course my prior experience of multiculturalism outside of Ireland was one of participation, engagement, and that of a collective goal to achieve the best of all of us. That said, we need a system that allows a phased approach in an organised (planned) manner and not a system that overloads our services and capabilities.

Yep, I completely agree, we do need plans.
Nobody believes that a free for all open border is the correct way to build our society.
There are a lot of things that we could do in order to run this country more efficiently and smoothly. I'm just not sure that any political party are willing to change the way things are.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, I completely agree, we do need plans.
Nobody believes that a free for all open border is the correct way to build our society.
There are a lot of things that we could do in order to run this country more efficiently and smoothly. I'm just not sure that any political party are willing to change the way things are.

And that Bubblypop, is the core of this discussion.:)

Kivaro

jmreire wrote: »

And that Bubblypop, is the core of this discussion.:)

Jaysus, what just happened.
We've reached Genesis.

jmreire

Kivaro wrote: »

Jaysus, what just happened.
We've reached Genesis.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:):):)

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

She may be J, and I have her on the ignore list and I only see her quoted posts, but her recent posts are reasonable, and it is very important that we have a dissenting voice on this thread, so I am removing BP from my ignore list based on those posts.

I tend to remove everyone on my ignore list at the end of each month... in the hopes that they've matured enough not to annoy the crap out of me. Some posters do change and improve over time. Others though. Nope.

I just don't have the patience for the sheer amount of twisting that poster does with posts. So, he/she is back on my ignore list for another month.

whysobecause

jmreire wrote: »

Bubblypop, why do you continuously turn a discusion about a fanaticlal religious or criminal minority into a percieved blanket condemnation of the whole population of that Country or Religion?? Its a common thread in your posts. Now I've lived for many years in not only the Balkans, but in many Islamic countrys too,,and I mean hardline Islamic Countrys, isis and taliban controilled..Kosovo's Islam does not even come close, believe me.I have many Muslim friends, and I consider it a privilege to know them. They are welcome in my home anytime. ( and I in theirs ) And they have the very same position that I have regarding radical Islam..simply because radicals have killed may more Muslims than westerners or others. So yes, I'm outspoken about radical Islam, I dont want it or its adherents in this Country, and I comment on it. but please don't construe that as a blanket condemnation of all Muslim's.

Speaking about Muslims, I see they are having a conversation about Muslims in France at the moment.
I'm shocked that the French Army has liathróidí


"Emmanuel Macron has threatened to punish generals who signed an open letter warning that the country is heading for 'civil war' because of radical Islam.Twenty retired generals, as well as several serving soldiers, signed the letter which warned that failure to act against the 'suburban hordes' - a reference to the predominantly immigrant population of the housing estates which surround French cities - will lead to deaths 'in the thousands.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9514863/Twenty-retired-French-generals-call-MILITARY-RULE-country.html#comments

99nsr125

EddieN75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Ben_Scallan/status/1387080303915769860?s=20


Justice minister dodges question regarding illegal immigrant amnesty

The best thing that can happen is if she doesn't come back because she is shìte

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

And that Bubblypop, is the core of this discussion.:)

But I have no issue with that discussion, none at all! You must agree this thread attracts a lot of prejudice posters, and that's a fact.
There's a post now about Muslims. That's not good enough. That's a sweeping statement.
The actual article is about radical islam, which is fair enough.
I deal with facts. There are many many reasons why they are having issues in France, or elsewhere. The lazy response is 'Muslims '
It's really not that simple..
Imo

Baggly

Kivaro wrote: »

She may be J, and I have her on the ignore list and I only see her quoted posts, but her recent posts are reasonable, and it is very important that we have a dissenting voice on this thread, so I am removing BP from my ignore list based on those posts.

I'm sure that the balloons and confetti are dropping on her head upon this announcement

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to remove everyone on my ignore list at the end of each month... in the hopes that they've matured enough not to annoy the crap out of me. Some posters do change and improve over time. Others though. Nope.

I just don't have the patience for the sheer amount of twisting that poster does with posts. So, he/she is back on my ignore list for another month.

Mod

I have no idea why you think discussing posters and not focusing on their posts is now acceptable - but its not.

Both of you can stop posting in this thread.

Dyr

whysobecause wrote: »

Speaking about Muslims, I see they are having a conversation about Muslims in France at the moment.
I'm shocked that the French Army has liathróidí


"Emmanuel Macron has threatened to punish generals who signed an open letter warning that the country is heading for 'civil war' because of radical Islam.Twenty retired generals, as well as several serving soldiers, signed the letter which warned that failure to act against the 'suburban hordes' - a reference to the predominantly immigrant population of the housing estates which surround French cities - will lead to deaths 'in the thousands.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9514863/Twenty-retired-French-generals-call-MILITARY-RULE-country.html#comments

In certain cities in France off-duty french soldiers are set upon by gangs of a certain ethnic flavour. I read one account of a French Foreign Legion lad who was badly hospitalised. His regiment then paid a late night visit to the neighborhood that this gang lived in, kicked certain doors in and beat the living crap out of the occupants. The Legion has long experience of dealing with inter faith disputes:D

Baggly

Mod

Klaz's threadban lifted after discussion via PM.

wicklowstevo

Bambi wrote: »

In certain cities in France off-duty french soldiers are set upon by gangs of a certain ethnic flavour. I read one account of a French Foreign Legion lad who was badly hospitalised. His regiment then paid a late night visit to the neighborhood that this gang lived in, kicked certain doors in and beat the living crap out of the occupants. The Legion has long experience of dealing with inter faith disputes:D

https://www.independent.ie/woman/celeb-news/the-irish-legionnaire-26455086.html

i remember reading this guys book years ago ,
he came across as a bit of a nut ball but made it very clear that the legion has no tolerance for racisms or any kind of ism
its legion first regardless of anything else and they are very well able and prone to taking such matters into their own hands. a fine way to be

WrenBoy

I can't think of a worse mistake than giving members of the FFL as reason to come after you.:eek:

TomTomTim

It's very rare to see a story like this in Ireland

Three men arrested in Dublin and Wicklow raids targeting a gang facilitating illegal immigration

THREE MEN HAVE been arrested in raids by gardaí investigating an alleged organised crime gang involved in facilitating illegal immigration.

The operation by the Garda National Immigration Bureau ran in tandem with police searches in the UK with Europol agents supporting the investigation.

The gardaí raided five properties in Dublin and one in Wicklow – the gang involved are suspected of using the free movement of the Common Travel Area to facilitate illegal immigration.

While the Irish raids were underway similar searches were carried out by Immigration Enforcement in the UK.

Assistant Commissioner John O’Driscoll, Head of Organised & Serious Crime said: “This operation was undertaken by the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) with a view to protecting the common travel area operated by the UK and Ireland from being exploited by organised crime groups who are suspected to be involved in facilitating illegal immigration”.

There were seizures of suspected false documents, telephones, financial documentation, and cash was seized.

I won't be praising them for doing the bare minimum, but it's good to see all the same.

TomTomTim

A lad in the comments was complaining about the term "illegal immigrant", while linking this:

PICUM therefore uses the terms ‘undocumented’ or ‘irregular’ migrant. The term ‘illegal migrant’ should never be used because:


it implies criminality. A person can never be illegal. Migration is not a crime.
it is discriminatory. Illegality as a status is only applied to migrants and used to deny them their rights.
it has real impacts on policy and public perception. Inaccurate language leads society to accept that people should be prosecuted and punished

Madness. A person can be illegal if they are in a country illegally. Migration is also a crime if not done through the proper channels. Stuff like this makes me wish that our enemies were cunning geniuses, instead of idiotic drones who make little sense, as it would make the outcome far more palatable.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

In certain cities in France off-duty french soldiers are set upon by gangs of a certain ethnic flavour. I read one account of a French Foreign Legion lad who was badly hospitalised. His regiment then paid a late night visit to the neighborhood that this gang lived in, kicked certain doors in and beat the living crap out of the occupants. The Legion has long experience of dealing with inter faith disputes:D

And yet, I doubt it helps the overall situation all that much. Generating fear and contempt in the people who get caught in the crossfire, possibly pushing them into the more aggressive or fundamentalist camps. Having known a variety of soldiers abroad, they're not the most.. careful in exacting revenge for slights.

As for the legions long experience, it's also one of the reasons Algeria continues to be a royal pain for France. What the Legion did there was abhorrent. Oh, I get that they were provoked, and the Algerians groups did a lot which was just as bad... but.. it hasn't exactly helped France.

Nope. We need a way of dealing with these foreign born populations (or 2nd/3rd gen populations) that doesn't involve violence or pandering. Both are as bad as each other.

prishtinaboy99

jmreire wrote: »

Google "Albanian Mafia", and Kosovo body parts trade. See what you think yourself.

I think I know a bit more about the situation in Albania and Kosovo than you.