What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

I don't believe anyone has an issue with people moving here to work. And we have a visa system for that. EU members can come and live here, so no issue with that.
So, seems to me anyway, from reading this thread in particular, that most people only have issues with non EU, asylum seekers or refugees?

Kermit.de.frog

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe anyone has an issue with people moving here to work. And we have a visa system for that. EU members can come and live here, so no issue with that.
So, seems to me anyway, from reading this thread in particular, that most people only have issues with non EU, asylum seekers or refugees?

I believe every single person coming to this country, EU or not, should have verified employment reflecting a range of skills laid out by the government.

The asylum seeker thing has been done to death. It was Michael McDowell who as minister for justice got so blue in the face with it that he told the Irish people the truth - that 90+% of these claims are completely bogus. "Cock and bull" as he said.

There has to come a point where we say 'enough' and we start having some standards.

In my view that starts with employment in the first instance. Don't have a job? Don't come. If you do we'll deport you.

This is the way other countries do it - I don't know why we don't have enough self respect to demand a minimum standard of those who want to make a life here.

It's long past time.

jk23

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I believe every single person coming to this country, EU or not, should have verified employment reflecting a range of skills laid out by the government.

The asylum seeker thing has been done to death. It was Michael McDowell who as minister for justice got so blue in the face with it that he told the Irish people the truth - that 90+% of these claims are completely bogus.

There has to come a point where we say 'enough' and we start having some standards.

In my view that starts with employment in the first instance. Don't have a job? Don't come. If you do we'll deport you.

This is the way other countries do it - I don't know why we don't have enough self respect to demand a minimum standard of those who want to make a life here.

It's long past time.

I agree with this, I think in the USA you have to have a sponsor, a degree which is needed in the US to attain a job that is highly skilled or a job already secured before you are allowed to begin working there. Now there is alot of illegals in the US from Ireland but if they are caught they will be deported....

RobbieTheRobber

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe anyone has an issue with people moving here to work. And we have a visa system for that. EU members can come and live here, so no issue with that.
So, seems to me anyway, from reading this thread in particular, that most people only have issues with non EU, asylum seekers or refugees?

And Muslims bubblypop don't forget quite a few have issues with the very idea of Muslims in Ireland.

RobbieTheRobber

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I believe every single person coming to this country, EU or not, should have verified employment reflecting a range of skills laid out by the government.

The asylum seeker thing has been done to death. It was Michael McDowell who as minister for justice got so blue in the face with it that he told the Irish people the truth - that 90+% of these claims are completely bogus. "Cock and bull" as he said.

There has to come a point where we say 'enough' and we start having some standards.

In my view that starts with employment in the first instance. Don't have a job? Don't come. If you do we'll deport you.

This is the way other countries do it - I don't know why we don't have enough self respect to demand a minimum standard of those who want to make a life here.

It's long past time.

So you want Ireland to reject one of the key principles of the EU. The freedom of movement of people. That's quite an unrealistic expectation and one I would assume is probably not even in line with the majority opinion in this thread, let alone in Ireland.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

What about police?
An Garda Siochana are actively looking for ethnic minorities, how do you feel about that?

No one should be actively looking for ethnic minorities. What happened to just hiring the most qualified person for the job?
Out of curiosity, what kind of minority they're looking for? Will some polish guards do, or they're not diverse enough?

Kermit.de.frog

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So you want Ireland to reject one of the key principles of the EU. The freedom of movement of people. That's quite an unrealistic expectation and one I would assume is probably not even in line with the majority opinion in this thread, let alone in Ireland.

I'd want us to start with non EU countries. But I believe in principle every foreign national should have a job ready for them to start before arriving here.

jk23

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So you want Ireland to reject one of the key principles of the EU. The freedom of movement of people. That's quite an unrealistic expectation and one I would assume is probably not even in line with the majority opinion in this thread, let alone in Ireland.

Would that not mean then that in the less well off economies of countries of the EU will go to the more well off EU countries. A person in Germany for example has less choice to go in Europe say than a person in Bulgaria....

Sand

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The socialists living in their bubble

https://twitter.com/ConorReddyPBP/status/1388879309625040905?s=19

It is depressing how this guy cant cant make the connection between cost of living/housing and open borders. Infinite demand for housing and infinite supply of labor due to mass migration into Ireland. Yet cost of living and wages are supposed to remain constant.

It is bizarre how people are so attuned to top down activism like Black Lives Matter but cant even begin to identify their own interests - let alone dream of activating to achieve them. From the PBP tag, I don't doubt this guy unreservedly demands more of the mass migration that is driving down his wages and driving up his cost of living.

Who radicalized him?

Sand

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So you want Ireland to reject one of the key principles of the EU. The freedom of movement of people. That's quite an unrealistic expectation and one I would assume is probably not even in line with the majority opinion in this thread, let alone in Ireland.

You say that, but freedom of movement is being curtailed due to COVID. So it the problem is not that it is impossible to curtail freedom of movement. It is that power chooses not to in this case.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I believe every single person coming to this country, EU or not, should have verified employment reflecting a range of skills laid out by the government.

Ok, well everyone in the EU, has the right to live and work anywhere within the EU.
I happen to think our membership of the EU is a good thing, if you do not, there's not much we will agree on I would imagine.

Sadler Peak

Cordell wrote: »

No one should be actively looking for ethnic minorities. What happened to just hiring the most qualified person for the job?
Out of curiosity, what kind of minority they're looking for? Will some polish guards do, or they're not diverse enough?

When folks like bubblypop talk about minorities it's blacks, muslims they are on about not white europeans.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

No one should be actively looking for ethnic minorities. What happened to just hiring the most qualified person for the job?
Out of curiosity, what kind of minority they're looking for? Will some polish guards do, or they're not diverse enough?

They absolutely should be looking for ethnic minorities to join!
There are already polish people in the guards and Chinese also, they need more from different backgrounds for sure.
People who are not Irish can be good policemen too, why would you think they are not the most qualified? All they are trying to do is encourage more majorities to apply.
That is a good thing.

Sadler Peak

Sadler Peak wrote: »

When folks like bubblypop talk about minorities it's blacks, muslims they are on about not white europeans.

Excuse me? You know what is in my head do you?
A minority in this country is someone who is not Irish

Sand

Sand wrote: »

You say that, but freedom of movement is being curtailed due to COVID. So it the problem is not that it is impossible to curtail freedom of movement. It is that power chooses not to in this case.

No.
Freedom of movement for people to live and work is a fundamental right of the EU.
Countries can still control their own borders, and Ireland do.
Covid restrictions are under health restrictions.
You cannot stop EU members living and working here, that's part of the membership

RobbieTheRobber

Sand wrote: »

You say that, but freedom of movement is being curtailed due to COVID. So it the problem is not that it is impossible to curtail freedom of movement. It is that power chooses not to in this case.

Yes Sand "DUE TO COVID" not because Ireland rejected the EU principle of freedom of movement for all citizens.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

People who are not Irish can be good policemen too, why would you think they are not the most qualified? All they are trying to do is encourage more majorities to apply.
That is a good thing.

Because I know that when you're looking for diversity you will prefer the diverse over non diverse, even if it's less qualified. Don't tell me that it's not going to be like this when you're instructed to give preference to diverse candidates, because I've been there and I've seen it happening.

Encouraging and actively looking for are two very different things, which one is it?

_Kaiser_

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd want us to start with non EU countries. But I believe in principle every foreign national should have a job ready for them to start before arriving here.

This... no matter where you're from, arriving with the hand out should not be an option.

The ONLY exception to this would be actual/genuine refugees, but even they should be able to be verified when they arrive within a max of 14 days (and sent back if not), and only supported for as long as it's not safe to return home - as defined by Ireland/some objective independent body. At that point, they either return home or apply for residency through the existing means. If they fail the criteria, off home they go. Citizenship should similarly be tightly controlled. If you want it, you earn it by more than just time served in the State/default.

Also, commit any serious crime or be convicted of membership of a criminal or terrorist organisation, or be a source of repeated social disruption - off home with you.

You come here, you abide by OUR rules and adapt to OUR culture and societal norms - NOT the other way around! If you don't like that, you're welcome to try your luck elsewhere!

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Because I know that when you're looking for diversity you will prefer the diverse over non diverse, even if it's less qualified. Don't tell me that it's not going to be like this when you're instructed to give preference to diverse candidates, because I've been there and I've seen it happening.

Encouraging and actively looking for are two very different things, which one is it?

No they are not different. Encouraging people to apply is encouraging people to apply
The Police do need diversity whether you believe it or not. When you are dealing with people who are not used to police or come from countries where they cannot trust their police force, then it is essential they see the police as being there for them also.
We need people to trust their police, and if seeing some of their own working as police does that, then it is good for society.
Also, there is no reason that people from other countries cannot be good police people, they are just the same as Irish people. Some are good police, some maybe not.

Dyr

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Freedom of movement for people to live and work is a fundamental right of the EU.
Countries can still control their own borders, and Ireland do.
Covid restrictions are under health restrictions.
You cannot stop EU members living and working here, that's part of the membership

That last sentence makes it very clear that we do not control our borders.

The EU were making bleating noises about our eventual milquetoast restrictions on people entering the country. They actually thought it a good idea to start whinging at countries who were protecting their citizens.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

That last sentence makes it very clear that we do not control our borders.

The EU were making bleating noises about our eventual milquetoast restrictions on people entering the country. They actually thought it a good idea to start whinging at countries who were protecting their citizens.

We do control our borders.
Membership of the EU involves freedom of travel and work for eu citizens.
Do you not believe in that fundamental right for eu citizens?

Arthur Daley

bubblypop wrote: »

We do control our borders.

10s of thousands of illegals would contradict that viewpoint.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So you want Ireland to reject one of the key principles of the EU. The freedom of movement of people. That's quite an unrealistic expectation and one I would assume is probably not even in line with the majority opinion in this thread, let alone in Ireland.

The freedom of movement perspective was originally based entirely on EU citizens being able to travel and work in other EU countries.

Not migrants with visas for a particular EU nation. Non-EU Migrants with a visa for France wouldn't have the permission to move to Ireland to live and work.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

That last sentence makes it very clear that we do not control our borders.

There are still basic requirements on EU citizens on entering any EU nation. The controls still exist to limit the movements of recognised criminals, or other categories of individuals.

Ireland does control it's borders. The difference is that there is little political will to refuse entry to most who arrive, whether legally or illegally. The processes are in place to refuse entry, they're just not availed of.

As for the freedom of movement gig for EU citizens, it's a wonderful thing, and I'd fight against anyone seeking to remove it.

It would make far greater sense to control/regulate better the gaining of citizenship for non-EU people in EU nations, therefore, having a better awareness of who is travelling freely within the boundaries of the EU.

Arthur Daley wrote:

10s of thousands of illegals would contradict that viewpoint.

Most of whom arrived in Ireland with valid visas, but didn't leave when they expired. That's more a problem with our method (or lack) of tracking migrants/students, than an issue with our border controls. It's well known that the Gardai don't arrest illegals for deportation, unless they've committed a serious crime, and even then, they're more likely to be sentenced and serve in an Irish prison (if they get prison time at all, and aren't just released back into the country).

The issue is with Irelands internal affairs as opposed to the borders themselves.

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the government wanted to stop these migration debates in their tracks and push back against building resentment all they have to do is to introduce appropriate rules as reassurance for the Irish people.

I think that's what many people want.

People coming in to this country to settle should have a verifiable job to begin before coming. Contributing should be the number one criteria above all else.

This should also be based on targeting skills the economy needs.

And we should have strict quotas every year on numbers.

And there is more than that but in the absence of such rules and enforcement we are fast heading the wrong direction with all sorts of societal and economic disturbances coming down the tracks.

The government needs to be able to offer assurances to the Irish people but what we have is the complete opposite. That's why the feeling out there is that this country is being mugged.

Except successive governments would say that the rules are appropriate, and still some want them to be different.

We see threads on here saying the Irish language is dead and no more money should be spent in funding its use or development.
We see threads knocking Irish musicians, performers, media personalities way more than we see these people being praised or lauded.
When a group was awarded ethnic status in Ireland, there was, and continues to be uproar at that being done.
Most of the groups helping or advocating for homeless people are dismissed as being self-serving gravy trains.

And many of the same posters/people who express views on some or all of these topics (not necessarily you) appear here lamenting the potential impact on Irelands cultural heritage or expressing views that the Irish should be looked after before anyone else is considered.

Thankfully the Irish electorate are by and large welcoming and understanding of the world we live in, of the benefit that we as a country and people gain from Ireland being a mostly compassionate society.

I don't know what age you are, but Ireland has seen its fair share of societal and economic disturbances throughout its history and the way to avoid some specifically draconian ones occurring, such as you have in mind, is to welcome those that do come here and make them want to integrate and contribute as opposed to feeling threatened and isolated in which mind frame they are likely to formulate a more negative mindset towards Ireland than a positive one.

Strumms

bubblypop wrote: »

We do control our borders.
Membership of the EU involves freedom of travel and work for eu citizens.
Do you not believe in that fundamental right for eu citizens?

The EU simply needs to implement tighter controls on people coming from outside the EU, into it. Or else people will leave, Europe will be a mess...We don’t have absolute control on our borders. We cannot afford the price that mass asylum like we are seeing comes here at...

Hospital waiting lists are colossal.

Rehabilitation places at the NRH, Doolaghs Park are like hens teeth... there are about 800,000 people on waiting lists now according to the HSE for hospital treatment/ appointments ... asylum seekers are entitled to medical cards.

The whole idea, notion, of asylum is flawed in modern life. Certainly as the regulations the EU operate... ZERO ability for any country to control their borders.

In about 15 - 20 years, this country will be unlivable. Population will be skyrocketing, no money to pay for services needed, going to be a shîtshow disaster, turning into one.

Sand

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yes Sand "DUE TO COVID" not because Ireland rejected the EU principle of freedom of movement for all citizens.

What it shows is that the EU principle of freedom of movement can co-exist with the prevention of freedom of movement. So it isn't some law of nature like gravity. It is down to government policy.

This is even before we even recognize that the EU itself compromises on the principle of freedom of movement. If I recall correctly countries like Liechtenstein impose restrictions of FoM with the blessing of the EU.

So ultimately, this comes down to policy. Down to choices made by governments. Not to Moses coming down from the mountain top with the word of god carved in stone tablets.

Sand

bubblypop wrote: »

Excuse me? You know what is in my head do you?
A minority in this country is someone who is not Irish

Irish people are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority in terms of global population. With strong borders, we can talk about national majorities. In a world of open borders that entire concept is garbage. Open borders mean Irish people are a minority.

Strumms

Freedom of movement fine and dandy, inside the fûcking EU... anybody coming from outside the EU, no. Should be visa required, with exception for certain countries ie. USA, Australia, New Zealand.

Sand

Strumms wrote: »

Freedom of movement fine and dandy, inside the fûcking EU... anybody coming from outside the EU, no. Should be visa required, with exception for certain countries ie. USA

True. That said, we don't even have freedom of movement within Ireland. So the whole idea of FoM being some natural law of reality is laughable.