What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Nor should it be.

Look, I completely understand the desire to travel and see somewhere different. I am extremely grateful to my parents for allowing me to stay with them for the year, but, the truth is that the major part of my life is in Asia, and I have gone through cycles of insanity/depression while I've been in Ireland.

However, while I do believe that the governments overreacted (under-reacted initially) with the travel bans, at the same time, free movement in terms of international travel would have been utterly retarded. Still is.. at least until the vaccines are widely dispersed, and we know for sure as to their effectiveness.

I'd love to be back in Asia now. I'll be missing summer, which means missing all those gorgeous legs, and coming back just in time for dismal polluted winter. All the same, I definitely don't want to rely on Asian hospitals or the standard of care should I contract covid.

I get where you're coming from, but the travel bans make sense. It won't be for much longer anyway.

I know exactly where you are coming from Klaz.. including bouts of depression and insanity. You are not alone in that, for sure, and it takes courage to admit it. I think that its far more widespread than people are willing to admit. After spending many years of my Life abroad, returning to "Irish Normality" took some getting used to, and I've had rough patches as well to the extent that I dont think that I will work abroad again, if means going through a kind of psychological detox when I come home.
I miss my yearly foreign "Fix". But what is happening in India now is speaking louder than any Govt campaign, to my mind. We are not out of the woods yet, even if the overall position here is improving. So for now, it's a case of slowly, slowly.

Fandymo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd want us to start with non EU countries. But I believe in principle every foreign national should have a job ready for them to start before arriving here.

There is an EU law, where if you cannot support yourself after 3 months you can be deported back to your country of origin. Ireland will never use this law.

Necro

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One of the headlines on Classic Hits news this morning celebrating the fact that Eurostat says Ireland will add 20% to their population over the next 20 years. The vast majority of which will need to come from immigration.

Meanwhile the UK is limiting immigration to less than 100,000 a year, equivalent to a maximum of 3% over the next 20 years and France under Macron says he wants to limit non-EU immigration to 30,000 a year.

Ireland once again punching way beyond it's weight in terms of open borders and mass immigration. Can we make a policy where all these people don't end up in working class estates in Dublin or Cork, maybe let our communities get some breathing space....I highly doubt it.

Wibbs

That Ireland is pushing for more immigration when other nations who have long experience of it, or who have decided they don't want long experience of it, are dialling right back and tightening up their numbers and criteria beggars belief. I would love to know the reasoning, if there is any beyond falling over ourselves to be "progressive" in front of the class.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

That Ireland is pushing for more immigration when other nations who have long experience of it, or who have decided they don't want long experience of it, are dialling right back and tightening up their numbers and criteria beggars belief. I would love to know the reasoning, if there is any beyond falling over ourselves to be "progressive" in front of the class.

It's mainly about money I think, the political and business class make big money off it. It's also about power I suppose. And finally topped off by virtue signaling to the world how progressive you are, Helen McEntee said recently Ireland is at the start of a wonderful multicultural phase of it's development. I wonder what planet she has being living on for the last 25 years, we are already one of the most multi-cultural countries in the world, it clearly just hasn't been noticeable where she lives....

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

It's mainly about money I think, the political and business class make big money off it. It's also about power I suppose. And finally topped off by virtue signaling to the world how progressive you are, Helen McEntee said recently Ireland is at the start of a wonderful multicultural phase of it's development. I wonder what planet she has being living on for the last 25 years, we are already one of the most multi-cultural countries in the world, it clearly just hasn't been noticeable where she lives....

Helen is a career politician who "inherited" her fathers seat when he died, and has no real world experience beyond this. She's also one of the young next generation of FG politician so like Leo is obsessed with social media and the "likes"

It's not surprising then that she would have this attitude. The problem is that governance and national policy is a lot more complex than Twitter polls, crusading and virtue signalling.

Also, as you say, no matter what happens she certainly won't be affected by it.

Arthur Daley

Plus the 'illegal' trade in refugees, there is that business as well. Such as that disgusting truck found in Essex full of Vietnamese.

Those people should be in Vietnam, a beautiful country, with their families, supporting their elders and youngsters, and not spun some cock and bull story about the paths paved with gold in Essex.

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Plus the 'illegal' trade in refugees, there is that business as well. Such as that disgusting truck found in Essex full of Vietnamese.

Those people should be in Vietnam, a beautiful country, with their families, supporting their elders and youngsters, and not spun some cock and bull story about the paths paved with gold in Essex.

Ahh... Asia is very poor. In such a manner, that I think most Europeans have really forgotten or never experienced for themselves. While parts of Vietnam are doing well, it's a lot like China in that it's only on the surface. For the average person, especially those from poor backgrounds and lack of education, it's a very difficult place to live.

While I am against most of this kind of immigration, let's not fool ourselves. Coming to Ireland, or the UK, even if they were to end up on the lowest level of western society, would still be a step up, considering the range of financial supports out there. It's a price many would be willing to pay... because the alternative is much worse.

Vietnam is a beautiful country but you're looking at it through the eyes of a 1st world native. It's still very much an authoritarian state (using a velvet glove), highly regulated society, where scams and corruption are commonplace at all levels of society whether public or private.

I love Asia. As a foreigner.. but if I was Asian (and poor), I'd probably want to leave as quickly as I could. It's an extremely brutal place...

Arthur Daley

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still very much an authoritarian state (using a velvet glove), highly regulated society, where scams and corruption are commonplace at all levels of society whether public or private.

Sounds a bit like here in this day and age :rolleyes:

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Sounds a bit like here in this day and age :rolleyes:

Hardly. Not even close to it.

Irish society isn't corrupt. It's only at some upper echelons where we see corruption happening, but in general, Irish society and culture is very honest and direct. Scams are extremely rare, in comparison to what happens in 3rd world nations. Same with the amount of control the government has over the people. Freedom exists here... not so much throughout Asia (although in Asia there is far more cultural bondage occurring)

Arthur Daley

Deleted User wrote: »

Hardly. Not even close to it.

Irish society isn't corrupt. It's only at some upper echelons where we see corruption happening, but in general, Irish society and culture is very honest and direct. Scams are extremely rare, in comparison to what happens in 3rd world nations. Same with the amount of control the government has over the people. Freedom exists here... not so much throughout Asia (although in Asia there is far more cultural bondage occurring)

Right, you're the man on the ground there.

So when you think about it, instead of trying to reform these corrupt cultures, the answer is for people to flee to western Europe and continual attempts to 'diversify' and change the western culture.

If what you are describing there applies across the region in general, then surely the western culture is a gold standard, and any 'reforms' via twitter, NGOs, BLM or whatever should be aimed at the cultures were corruption and human rights abuses are widescale.

Is it just we're a soft touch that we are targeted for all these 'diversity' reforms. And these social justice warriors are not willing to put in the hard shift in 3rd world countries. We are the line of least resistance, and people like those in the back of that artic are mere pawns in this whole sorry affair.

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

So when you think about it, instead of trying to reform these corrupt cultures, the answer is for people to flee to western Europe and continual attempts to 'diversify' and change the western culture.

Reform these cultures? I doubt that's even remotely possible. As for changing western culture, Asians, typically have little interest in doing that. They're very used to having a subculture (ethnic) scene, where their own culture exists below that of another.. while living by both systems. Most Asians I've met love western culture.. at least the idea of it. Freedom to education? Check. Freedom to make money? Check. There's two of their main drivers satisfied immediately, and they don't really have any serious connection to religion, so where Europe has evolved towards, satisfies them too.

SE Asians like the west as it is.. and the vast majority wouldn't want it to change. Although it is changing with or without their input.

If what you are describing there applies across the region in general, then surely the western culture is a gold standard, and any 'reforms' via twitter, NGOs, BLM or whatever should be aimed at the cultures were corruption and human rights abuses are widescale.

They're not going to gain any traction in Asia, because Asians are typically pretty good at recognising a scam.. and all of these (BLM, NGOs, etc) are scams of one type or another.

As for western culture being the gold standard, it certainly isn't. Western culture is a study in double standards. The US political system is incredibly corrupt, as are the governments of Span/Italy/etc. The cultures tend to be not terribly corrupt, but it exists all the same. Western culture, in general, is one rule for you, and a different rule for us. Same with human rights abuses... we'll ignore dodgy behavior in western nations, while crying foul at others. Remember Guantanamo Bay?

Is it just we're a soft touch that we are targeted for all these 'diversity' reforms. And these social justice warriors are not willing to put in the hard shift in 3rd world countries. We are the line of least resistance, and people like those in the back of that artic are mere pawns in this whole sorry affair.

Guilt. We've been told that we should feel collectively guilty for things that happened in our history, committed by people with no connection to us, and under circumstances that are completely different to modern standards. IMHO we're just being hit by the same double standards that western governments have been directing at other nations, but now it's being applied to our own society by our own people.

Everyone is a pawn for someone with more power/influence than us. Freedom is an illusion.

Hego Damask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56977771

Incredible, it's no wonder people just don't trust these hack "journalists" in the BBC..

One major political sticking point is whether the recent violence should be connected to Sweden's recent wave of immigration. Swedish police don't register criminal suspects according to ethnicity, but prosecutors say several of the men facing trial have non-Swedish backgrounds, and that's been used as ammunition by anti-immigration parties.

Why not? if they were native Swedes you would think they'd be only too happy to report this ...

In a televised party leader debate last week, the leader of the nationalist Sweden Democrats Jimmie Akesson called for a crackdown on what he described as "imported values" that sanction violence against women.

Sweden's Gender Equality Minister Marta Stenevi says that Sweden does have a problem with so-called "honour crimes", which are committed to protect or defend the supposed reputation of a family or extended community. But she believes labelling violence towards women as an "immigrant issue" is "really, really diminishing the problem",

No!!!, it IS the problem!!!! , what planet do these people live on ???

describing violence against women as "deeply, deeply rooted" throughout Swedish society.

Yeah, I mean 20 years ago Swedish women lives were hell with those pesky dangerous Swedish men and their rape culture.

We are living in a reality war.

What are those crime figures by ethnicity like for ireland?

newhouse87

bubblypop wrote: »

What are those crime figures by ethnicity like for ireland?

Thought you don't care about ethnicities of crime perpetrators?

newhouse87

newhouse87 wrote: »

Thought you don't care about ethnicities of crime perpetrators?

I don't

DelaneyIn

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't

What are you asking for so?

DelaneyIn

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are you asking for so?

Its a discussion board in Ireland, the poster seems very worried about the ethnicity of offenders in Sweden, so I'm just wondering if they know the stats for Ireland....

2,000 people have just arrived on an Italian island in the space of 24 hours, the EU are asking for solidarity in resettling these people throughout the EU. I assume once again Ireland will step forward....

At some stage the EU are going to have to protect their borders.

_Kaiser_

Newstalk covering a story this morning about a Philippino carer who is concerned about getting the covid vaccine because she's here over 10 years and undocumented (ie: illegal) and worried she'll be deported.

She's grateful to McEntee though for her plans to regularise her status. McEntee herself interviewed as well and assuring her/them that their information wouldn't be passed on - ie: encouraging them to not only continue to break the law but we'll vaccinate them all (figure of 20000 was mentioned) anyway until she waves all this away with her amnesty plan.

What the hell is going on in this country?

DeadHand

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

What the hell is going on in this country?

Ultimately?

A cynical process to dramatically inflate both labour pools and markets for the benefit of big business protected and justified by those who profit from it and those who have been duped into doing so in the belief they are displaying extraordinary compassion and/or fighting imaginary Nazis.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

2,000 people have just arrived on an Italian island in the space of 24 hours, the EU are asking for solidarity in resettling these people throughout the EU. I assume once again Ireland will step forward....

At some stage the EU are going to have to protect their borders.

In the case of Italy the system is trying to make the problem worse by bringing anyone who takes serious action against the problem to court

A judge in Sicily has ordered the former Italian interior minister Matteo Salvini to stand trial for refusing to let a Spanish migrant rescue ship dock in an Italian port in 2019, keeping the people at sea for days.

Judge Lorenzo Iannelli set 15 September as the trial date during a court hearing in Palermo, LaPresse news agency reported.

Salvini, who attended the hearing, confirmed the outcome and said he was only doing his job and his duty by refusing entry to the Open Arms rescue ship and the 147 people it had rescued in the Mediterranean Sea.

Citing the Italian constitution, Salvini tweeted that defending the country was the “sacred duty” of every Italian. “I’m going on trial for this, for having defended my country?” he said. “I’ll go with my head held high, also in your name.”

Palermo prosecutors have accused Salvini of dereliction of duty and kidnapping, for keeping the migrants at sea off the coast of Lampedusa for almost three weeks in August 2019. During the standoff, some people threw themselves overboard in desperation as the captain pleaded for a safe, close port. Eventually, after a 19-day ordeal, the remaining 83 migrants still onboard were allowed to disembark in Lampedusa.

Salvini had maintained a hard line on migration as interior minister during the first government of the then prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, from 2018-19. While demanding that EU nations do more to take in migrants arriving in Italy, Salvini argued that humanitarian rescue ships were only encouraging Libyan-based traffickers and that his policy saved lives by discouraging further risky trips across the Mediterranean.

His lawyer, Giulia Bongiorno, said she was certain the court would determine that no kidnapping was involved.

“There was no limitation on their freedom,” she told reporters after the indictment was handed down. “The ship had the possibility of going anywhere. There was just a prohibition of going into port. But it had 100,000 options.”

The group behind Open Arms welcomed the decision to put Salvini on trial. “We are happy for all the people we have rescued … in all these years,” it tweeted.

Salvini is also under investigation for another, similar migrant standoff involving the Italian coastguard ship Gregoretti, which Salvini refused to allow to dock in the summer of 2019.

The prosecutor in that case, Andrea Bonomo of Catania in Sicily, advised against a trial, arguing that Salvini was carrying out government policy when he kept the 116 migrants at sea for five days.

The reality is, is that there's way too many people within the system who want all of this madness to continue

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

In the case of Italy the system is trying to make the problem worse by bringing anyone who takes serious action against the problem to court



The reality is, is that there's way too many people within the system who want all of this madness to continue

The current Italian and Spanish governments are two of Europe's biggest weakpoints on illegal migration at the moment. Both ideologically support it from their political viewpoint, left wing and socialist.

Others who hold influence in these countries see it as a chance to help with some of the worlds lowest fertility rates, 1.3 roughly in both countries. Both countries are expected to see their populations half over the coming few decades, mass migration is seen by them as a way of countering this.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Newstalk covering a story this morning about a Philippino carer who is concerned about getting the covid vaccine because she's here over 10 years and undocumented (ie: illegal) and worried she'll be deported.

She's grateful to McEntee though for her plans to regularise her status. McEntee herself interviewed as well and assuring her/them that their information wouldn't be passed on - ie: encouraging them to not only continue to break the law but we'll vaccinate them all (figure of 20000 was mentioned) anyway until she waves all this away with her amnesty plan.

What the hell is going on in this country?

The most annoying thing for me here is there is a business employing this person that are breaking our tax laws and other laws for a decade who the justice minister won't prosecute. It doesn't seem to be an issue for them in the slightest.

This can be replicated across tens of thousands of businesses in this country who are employing illegal immigrants and not paying tax. Yet no politician or journalists question this?

If I didn't pay the tens of thousands of tax that I do every year or didn't pay my TV license they wouldn't be long coming after me.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The current Italian and Spanish governments are two of Europe's biggest weakpoints on illegal migration at the moment. Both ideologically support it from their political viewpoint, left wing and socialist.

Which shows, again, how little modern western politicians represent the views and interests of the electorate. Italy and Spain both have serious economic issues with regards to unemployment and welfare dependencies. There is very little support by the average punter with regards to further immigration, and yet, the politicians continue plugging the belief that it's needed. Spain, in particular, is really messed up politically, and economically, due to the geographical distribution of wealth, and power. (Italy is too, but Spain is perhaps a more obvious example)

Others who hold influence in these countries see it as a chance to help with some of the worlds lowest fertility rates, 1.3 roughly in both countries. Both countries are expected to see their populations half over the coming few decades, mass migration is seen by them as a way of countering this.

It's a distraction. Fertility rates have been dropping for all manner reasons, from the compounds used in plastics, right through to the changes in gender roles. Rather than seek to resolve or even mitigate these factors, they hope to bring in people from elsewhere.

There are far better ways to increase birth rates, than encouraging immigration from peoples whose culture are so different than ours... but it's simply easier to fixate on immigration as a quick fix.

It's the curse of western culture atm. This turning to quick fixes, with little consideration for the long-term negative effects.

Yellow_Fern

Thought might be of interest. irish population growth and Dublin rent prices. Youd almost think there is a link!

ek motor

DeadHand wrote: »

Ultimately?

A cynical process to dramatically inflate both labour pools and markets for the benefit of big business protected and justified by those who profit from it and those who have been duped into doing so in the belief they are displaying extraordinary compassion and/or fighting imaginary Nazis.

In a nutshell. Many folk will complain about the price/unavailability of housing and lack of a 'living wage' while at the same time supporting policies which foment the exact opposite. Mass migration creates a surge of demand for housing and over supply of unskilled labour keeps wages low.

Cordell

Deleted User wrote: »

There are far better ways to increase birth rates

There is no need to increase birth rates, there is no need for more people in Europe, especially not the kind that keeps coming in.
It's all a big stinking red herring - we have a demographic decline so we need to bring in replacement people. No, this is just politicians presenting something bad as something good, just because they are unable and unwilling to stop it.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

There is no need to increase birth rates, there is no need for more people in Europe, especially not the kind that keeps coming in.
It's all a big stinking red herring - we have a demographic decline so we need to bring in replacement people. No, this is just politicians presenting something bad as something good, just because they are unable and unwilling to stop it.

Pretty much. The technology and economic models we have developed for Europe, don't need a large population base. Europe could afford to lose a large part of its current population, and the nations within could continue to operate effectively.