What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ek motor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty much. The technology and economic models we have developed for Europe, don't need a large population base. Europe could afford to lose a large part of its current population, and the nations within could continue to operate effectively.

Absolutely , its not a necessity at all, yet it is pushed vehemently in the media. Criticism is met with ostracisation or 'cancelling' as its now known.

'Cancel culture' is now so thoroughly effective at stopping anything approaching a debate on the matter.

There is not a single elected official in the country who is willing to out forth an opposing argument publicly, because they will be hounded from office by the media /social media hivemind. Not one.

enricoh

I take it everyone in the crowd for this demonstration in dublin today was fully vaccinated?!
No doubt a plethora of our journalists will be critical of having thousands of people crammed together in the midst of corona!!

https://mobile.twitter.com/jackpowerIT?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1393578666744029185%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-13625450902321510339.ampproject.net%2F2104302228000%2Fframe.html

Gremlinertia

Gone off topic posts deleted, bear in mind the thread title
What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland?

DerekC16

Gremlinertia wrote: »

Gone off topic posts deleted, bear in mind the thread title
What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland?

And using examples of failed multiculturalism in other countries should be allowed.

Justin Credible Darts

DerekC16 wrote: »

And using examples of failed multiculturalism in other countries should be allowed.

exactly,


what makes anyone think what happens in britain and other countries like ireland cannot or wont happen here ?
Are people so naive to think Ireland is somehow different ?

Gremlinertia

Five posts consecutively mentioning same criminal behaviour in another country, neighbour or not isn't on topic and would fast lead to link dumping and further off topic posting

Gremlinertia

Gremlinertia wrote: »

Gone off topic posts deleted, bear in mind the thread title
What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland?

My genuine view is that multiculturalism in Ireland will follow a path that at least will resemble what is occurring and has occurred in other European countries.

And while there is much benefit, in my view, to the cultural melting pot, it is foolish to ignore the dangers.

Experience_day

Deleted User wrote: »

My genuine view is that multiculturalism in Ireland will follow a path that at least will resemble what is occurring and has occurred in other European countries.

And while there is much benefit, in my view, to the cultural melting pot, it is foolish to ignore the dangers.

What benefits?

Pussyhands

Why do we need diversity as constantly mentioned by the likes of Chu?

I have nothing against diversity but there's no "need" for it.

Justin Credible Darts

Experience_day wrote: »

What benefits?

I would not hold your breath for an answer to your question

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I would not hold your breath for an answer to your question

Broader gene pool.

I've always thought the west could do with more mixing with Asian people.

Cordell

There is nothing wrong with the gene pool in the west, but anyway, a broader gene pool is a benefit of immigration, not multiculturalism.
Immigration followed by integration and assimilation lead to a broader gene pool indeed, multiculturalism results in multiple gene pools.

Experience_day

Experience_day wrote: »

What benefits?

Well we get to see all our ads on TV containing people from different backgrounds.

Wibbs

Pussyhands wrote: »

Why do we need diversity as constantly mentioned by the likes of Chu?

I have nothing against diversity but there's no "need" for it.

The same diversity is only ever applied to White, Western nations. Initially only those who were ex European colonies that got diversity by default, that screwed over most of their non White populations, so this diversity is our strength was a sop to those people. And that's all it was. Ask a Black American.

Latterly it has been applied to Europe. Falling birth rates and the market need for more consumers and cheaper workers egged it on. Germany was one of the first with her importation(and exploitation) of Turkish workers, Britain when it's fading empire came home to roost. It didn't go too well for either, including their non native people generations in. Add in the major post war paranoia in Europe as far as nation states and nationalism goes and "multiculturalism" was a shoe in as a politic, a "done deal" an "Accepted Truth" that can never be questioned.

The problem is it increases social division and adds to already existing social problems, with a large side order of new social problems. This is undeniable and every nation who runs this experiment demonstrates this, as will this country. It has already started here. With the help of the usual grifters found everywhere eager to make bank on the back of it.

Again this diversity is only ever applied to White, Western nations. The same flagwavers for multiculturalism would have a fit if one were to suggest what say Ethiopia or Korea or Jordan really needs to be a truly modern nation is more White people moving there to improve things. And for a nice change they'd be dead right.

Bobblehats

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always thought the west could do with more mixing with Asian people.

Might we be biased, as males in recognising the remarkable effeminate traits of the asian phenotype?...which may not apply to a woman’s desires but whilst there are very few byproducts of interracial relations, I would consider an abomination I don’t believe anybody truly wants to inherit the mutton-headed stepchild with his brains in his feet.

A lot to be said for the grace and intelligence if looking to build on ourselves as Irish people. Good cheekbones; pretty eyes, easy hair…

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the gene pool in the west, but anyway, a broader gene pool is a benefit of immigration, not multiculturalism.
Immigration followed by integration and assimilation lead to a broader gene pool indeed, multiculturalism results in multiple gene pools.

I didn't say that there was anything wrong with the gene pool in the west. Simply that I'd like to see a greater mixing with Asians, since I find that mix to be particularly attractive.

As for multiculturalism... There's nothing that says it only involves distinct cultural groups, not interacting with each other, and not interbreeding. Simply putting different ethnic or cultural groups within the same environment will lead to a mixing... unless there are seriously strong social norms preventing it, and even then, there'll be those who do so anyway.

Certain ethnic/cultural groups are more likely to mix than others, based on their culture or social norms, plus the norms of the host nation. Multiculturalism doesn't alter that.

gilberto_eire

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Well we get to see all our ads on TV containing people from different backgrounds.

Different races/ethnic groups... not different backgrounds, since we know nothing of their backgrounds..

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

The same diversity is only ever applied to White, Western nations. Initially only those who were ex European colonies that got diversity by default, that screwed over most of their non White populations, so this diversity is our strength was a sop to those people. And that's all it was. Ask a Black American.

Latterly it has been applied to Europe. Falling birth rates and the market need for more consumers and cheaper workers egged it on. Germany was one of the first with her importation(and exploitation) of Turkish workers, Britain when it's fading empire came home to roost. It didn't go too well for either, including their non native people generations in. Add in the major post war paranoia in Europe as far as nation states and nationalism goes and "multiculturalism" was a shoe in as a politic, a "done deal" an "Accepted Truth" that can never be questioned.

The problem is it increases social division and adds to already existing social problems, with a large side order of new social problems. This is undeniable and every nation who runs this experiment demonstrates this, as will this country. It has already started here. With the help of the usual grifters found everywhere eager to make bank on the back of it.

Again this diversity is only ever applied to White, Western nations. The same flagwavers for multiculturalism would have a fit if one were to suggest what say Ethiopia or Korea or Jordan really needs to be a truly modern nation is more White people moving there to improve things. And for a nice change they'd be dead right.

The next 10-20 years in Europe are going to see some seismic events and changes due to rapidly changing demographics. We've already seen Brexit, French society starting to tear itself apart and a host of other events gathering pace throughout the continent. I have no idea how it'll turn out but it won't be pleasant.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

The next 10-20 years in Europe are going to see some seismic events and changes due to rapidly changing demographics. We've already seen Brexit, French society starting to tear itself apart and a host of other events gathering pace throughout the continent. I have no idea how it'll turn out but it won't be pleasant.

It would seem that politicians are sniffing the political winds, and there seems to be an increase of them jumping on the anti-immigrant band wagon...

(1) New Zealand to cut low skill immigration On Monday, the New Zealand government announced it would be narrowing pathways for those hoping to migrate and work in the country, particularly those it classed as “low-skill” and low-wage workers"
(2) Michel Barnier seems to have ruffled as many feathers in France with his latest comments on immigration as he did in Britain during his stint as EU Brexit negotiator. Positioning himself to run as the rightwing candidate in next year’s presidential elections, Barnier told a TV interviewer that he wanted to suspend immigration to France from outside the EU, including family reunions, for three to five years. Immigration, he suggested, was linked to terrorism and was a threat to the stability of French society. He also called for talks with other members of the Schengen group (the 26 European countries that have abolished all passport controls at their mutual borders) to strengthen the EU’s external borders.

Barnier’s remarks caused outrage. But, shocking though they were, the comments are an extreme version of actual EU policy. Politicians of all hues have accepted that freedom of movement inside Europe requires the tightening of restrictions against non-Europeans.

DerekC16

I wouldn't trust any politicians that suddenly get on the immigration sceptic bandwagon. Thatcher done it to get into power when the NF was making ground, Blair done it when the BNP were making ground. Release valves.

99nsr125

Experience_day wrote: »

What benefits?

Hot chicks

DerekC16

Experience_day wrote: »

What benefits?

Curry, Rickshaws and the yuppies can order donuts to the office for lunch.

kildare lad

jmreire wrote: »

It would seem that politicians are sniffing the political winds, and there seems to be an increase of them jumping on the anti-immigrant band wagon...

(1) New Zealand to cut low skill immigration On Monday, the New Zealand government announced it would be narrowing pathways for those hoping to migrate and work in the country, particularly those it classed as “low-skill” and low-wage workers"
(2) Michel Barnier seems to have ruffled as many feathers in France with his latest comments on immigration as he did in Britain during his stint as EU Brexit negotiator. Positioning himself to run as the rightwing candidate in next year’s presidential elections, Barnier told a TV interviewer that he wanted to suspend immigration to France from outside the EU, including family reunions, for three to five years. Immigration, he suggested, was linked to terrorism and was a threat to the stability of French society. He also called for talks with other members of the Schengen group (the 26 European countries that have abolished all passport controls at their mutual borders) to strengthen the EU’s external borders.

Barnier’s remarks caused outrage. But, shocking though they were, the comments are an extreme version of actual EU policy. Politicians of all hues have accepted that freedom of movement inside Europe requires the tightening of restrictions against non-Europeans.

Good to see someone in power with a bit of brains compared to the idiots we have running the country here .I worked in a low paid job during the recession . You pay nearly nothing in tax so they're no benefit to the economy unless you're a multi millionaire owner who's paying the low wages . The taxpayer is then left to pay for the low skilled workers house , medical card and children's allowance . I know most of our politicians are teachers but did any off them do economics in school ?

jmreire

DerekC16 wrote: »

I wouldn't trust any politicians that suddenly get on the immigration sceptic bandwagon. Thatcher done it to get into power when the NF was making ground, Blair done it when the BNP were making ground. Release valves.

Thats well understood, the relationship between politicians and the current "popular" circumstances. In this case Immigration / multiculture, which just goes to show that there is an undertow of popular opinion that politicians can harness for their own ends. But that does not change the fact that there is an increasingly growing movement against Immigration /Multiculturalism. These are not the last politicians we will hear from in the same vein...question is when will the politicians sniff the wind here in Ireland? When there is an election on the horizon? Or when there is a mega-change in the EU?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The next 10-20 years in Europe are going to see some seismic events and changes due to rapidly changing demographics. We've already seen Brexit, French society starting to tear itself apart and a host of other events gathering pace throughout the continent. I have no idea how it'll turn out but it won't be pleasant.

I wouldn't worry too much because the majority population (native) will be the ones pushing for change, and a reduction of foreign influence.

Brexit was caused by far more than their experiences with immigration.. and they had a wide range of political/historical issues dealing with Europe.

France isn't tearing itself apart. They're starting to recognise on a national level the impact of past failures with regards to integration. As are most European nations who have found that past efforts to encourage integration as opposed to expecting assimilation, have mostly failed. But the native population isn't eating itself over the situation.. you're simply seeing a shift in attitudes that are becoming more public. A movement away from the right wing groups, and a desire by many for a more reasonable response to the problems plaguing Europe.

I expect to see some serious changes to immigration policy, and the ability to gain citizenship in most European countries, along with a review of citizenship given out to past migrants. A hardening of opinions towards those who have moved to Europe, and their contributions to their host nation, along with their efforts to integrate. I wouldn't be too surprised over the next decade or slightly longer than that, to see a variety of European nations give the middle finger to the UN, and start deporting those were given citizenship, but have failed to meet the desired standards of being a citizen... Then, there's also the hardening of opinions towards other religious groups, Islam in particular, and the influence that religion has since it has political realities in addition to the social.

TBH I'm feeling quite positive about what's happening in Europe. There's a growing movement of people who are going to call the NGOs, activists, and virtue signallers out on their agendas. Likely we'll see a greater focus on nationalism, whether that's on the national level, or with Europe as a bloc.

So... for me, I'm quite hopeful that people are starting to look for answers, as opposed to simply passing the problems over to the next generation to resolve. Ireland is further behind on the curve on this one, but I also hope that our politicians will follow Europe in this, although likely they'll be a year or two behind them.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH I'm feeling quite positive about what's happening in Europe. There's a growing movement of people who are going to call the NGOs, activists, and virtue signallers out on their agendas. Likely we'll see a greater focus on nationalism, whether that's on the national level, or with Europe as a bloc.

So... for me, I'm quite hopeful that people are starting to look for answers, as opposed to simply passing the problems over to the next generation to resolve. Ireland is further behind on the curve on this one, but I also hope that our politicians will follow Europe in this, although likely they'll be a year or two behind them.

I hope you're right and I do see reasons to be optimistic as well but tempered with a feeling that it's a highly volatile situation which needs to be managed with care. I'm not sure if the political leaders needed for the situation exist or ever will exist.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope you're right and I do see reasons to be optimistic as well but tempered with a feeling that it's a highly volatile situation which needs to be managed with care. I'm not sure if the political leaders needed for the situation exist or ever will exist.

Western democracy has, over time, moved away from the idea that most people consider it to be. Politicians have weakened the influence of the electorate except when it comes to general elections, and there, the actual downsides for politicians are limited.. since one group or another gets in regardless, and the memory of the electorate is rather short.

It's time for reform... and should western politicians continue with their pro-immigrant stance, they'll face greater pressure for that reform to occur. It's not that long ago that violence accompanied public opposition to political rule, and it's something that could arise again. Short term pain for long term improvement. A move to reduce the power of the political elite, and a reminder to the public, as to why democracy was sought in the first place.

We will have the political leaders someday, because western society is shifting dramatically. Western culture whether based on the overall group, or individual nations, has been shifting for all manner of social changes, from homosexuality to the place of religion in society... and that will extend to the desire for many people to see real representation in our political candidates.. and that will eventually result in demands. Demands that won't be put off by vague statements, and lies.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

It would seem that politicians are sniffing the political winds, and there seems to be an increase of them jumping on the anti-immigrant band wagon...

(1) New Zealand to cut low skill immigration On Monday, the New Zealand government announced it would be narrowing pathways for those hoping to migrate and work in the country, particularly those it classed as “low-skill” and low-wage workers"

Do you have a link to the New Zealand proposals? Can't find anything, would be interesting to analyze.

jmreire

Google New Zealand to restrict visas to low level workers. There are several articles available.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Google New Zealand to restrict visas to low level workers. There are several articles available.

Ya, got it cheers. Looks like there's no official policy documents available yet, just some generic quotes. Although I see the head of the business federation in NZ was straight out of the gate complaining about restrictions to low wage migration