What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

rossie1977

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a hearkening to the days of State Capitalism, and the Communist system, of the State creating "businesses" whose sole purpose is to employ people. Not to be efficient. Not to be profitable. Just to employ as many people as possible, so that it lowers unrest, and provides some stable income for the majority of people. I suspect it's why the public service in Ireland has grown so much over the last few decades.. the desire to employ people and decrease the unemployment rates (political statements). Except the public service doesn't add much to the economy for growth, and over time, tends to become more expensive rather than more efficient, while also removing educated/skilled labor from the private sector, and so stifling growth of new business (since SMEs are incredibly important for countries the size of Ireland, although the government has little interest in them)

Over time, with an increased population, we'll see the middle class shrink dramatically, with a greater amount of people being termed as working class, simply because it will be so expensive to live, and greater dependence on the State to provide... It's utterly suicidal, and just shows the degree of short-term thinking our politicians (and public servants) apply, while also ignoring the lessons shown in other countries.

Communism lol. Western Europe including Ireland is following the neo liberal US model albeit at a much slower rate. Public services are being reduced while taxation and grants is allowing a huge chunk of the wealth to flow to the top. In the US the top 0.1% now control as much wealth as the bottom 90%..we aren't there yet but we are getting there and France/UK probably first of the big European nations that will hit those kind of numbers in next decade or two.

Justin Credible Darts

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Say that about Africa and you will be called a racist.

The term racist has been bandied about so often, by so many idiots, its hardly an insult on the net these days.


Being an actual racist is not good, however being wrongly accused of being one by people who throw it around on a whim has got to the point is only shows up the accuser in many cases as being unable to indulge in proper debate and says more about them.
so yes, africans, asians, and all people as a whole should be doing more to curb the serious global population issue.

Justin Credible Darts

yaknowski wrote: »

Sinn Féin laying their stall out.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/28018

so the people who wanted "brits out"
now want"everyone in"


I wish they make up their mind

Strumms

Many immigrants are skilled... but we have a shortage of jobs, it’s not like we can say, “ohhh great, we have a skills shortage that needs filling, everyone is a winner ! “

So we are in truth...

- making the Irish jobs market more competitive..

- driving down wages

- driving down conditions

So the Irish person is getting fûcked under the bus..

rossie1977

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Maybe that's the first thing to question. Why are we looking to increase our population (and simultaneously reduce our carbon output and solve housing)?

Currently about ~600,000 people in Ireland over 65. Thats predicted to nearly triple by 2050 to over 1.5 million. Already a huge chunk of social welfare approximately €14 billion is used to pay for state pensions and illness/carer benefits.

Our birth rate has dropped dramatically and is now following the rest of Europe which over the medium and long term is simply not sustainable.

rossie1977

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Being an actual racist is not good, however being wrongly accused of being one by people who throw it around on a whim has got to the point is only shows up the accuser in many cases as being unable to indulge in proper debate and says more about them.
so yes, africans, asians, and all people as a whole should be doing more to curb the serious global population issue.

There is a serious population issue but its the exact opposite of what you think. World birth rates are falling at an astronomical level to a point many countries probably won't be viable entities by end of this century

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521.amp

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It’s only a matter of time before taxes are increased to ensure we can pay for and maintain services...never mind improving services for taxpayers that won’t happen now.

So we are all going to end up with a couple of percent more across the board in income tax, all be less well off, all because we have a bill not of our asking, not of our desiring..

The problem is that even following the Celtic Tiger, Ireland as a nation was facing a decline in services. If you look outside of Dublin, and to a lesser extent the other cities, health services have dwindled in a major way, with doctors charging a fortune in fees, but also moving away from many towns. It's the same with Gardai, where many country towns have a token amount of Gardai compared with a decade or two ago. I don't know what Dublin is like, and I suspect its retained most of its services, but the simple fact is that Ireland has been falling behind in providing services for years now.

This isn't anything new. The Celtic Tiger spoiled Irish people, making them believe that a small nation with little in the way of valuable natural resources, could provide a standard of living comparable with the major nations. The Banking crash hurt, but Ireland experienced somewhat of a renewal afterwards, but there was still very little investment done to bring up the failing services. And while revenue increased over time, the government has gone nuts spending money on all manner of unnecessary activities, including the virtuous desire to bring in and support migrants.

The point is that few people want to face the reality that Ireland has been struggling for years to provide for it's overall population. The coming recession will put a stop to that though, since it's likely to be far worse than previous recessions, due to the amount of debt built up, but also, the lack of funding available to meet our current needs. On top of that, there's the next wave of immigration, which will further increase the strain on services.

I could go on, but there's little point. Our political elite are oblivious, or uncaring for how much they mortgage this nation, and are unwilling to properly invest in it's future.

jmreire

Strumms wrote: »

Simply they are trying to attract a new voter base, they have zero chance of ever being in power but in years to come if they attract a new demographic of voter outside the ‘ usual’

Had Sinn Fein fielded more candidates in the last election, they would have been in power...not a mistake they will repeat. As it was, they took the lions share of 1st oreferpnce votes, with FFG / others going to 15 / 16 / 17 count to ge elected. This was was not a case if the entire population becoming Sinn Feiners overnight....it was a call for change. The old catchall " why do people vote the same partys in, and then expect change?" this was the call for change. And if I was a betting man, I'd say that it was not the last call for change we will see either,,,and thats why you wont see an election any time soon.

rossie1977

rossie1977 wrote: »

Communism lol. Western Europe including Ireland is following the neo liberal US model albeit at a much slower rate. Public services are being reduced while taxation and grants is allowing a huge chunk of the wealth to flow to the top. In the US the top 0.1% now control as much wealth as the bottom 90%..we aren't there yet but we are getting there and France/UK probably first of the big European nations that will hit those kind of numbers in next decade or two.

Dunno why you're laughing since you didn't actually address anything I said in my post. While I agree with most of your points, they're not related to the quoted piece.

Swindled

yaknowski wrote: »

Sinn Féin laying their stall out.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/28018

Quite the non Irish Republic then. Irish out - Africans/Arabs/Muslims In, for the replantation of Ireland.
The terms Ireland and Irish have now become meaningless brand names.
The Irish have been fighting colonisation by others for over 800 years.
They say SF is mostly controlled by Mi5, I'm beginning to think so. No need to fight for a United Ireland, if there's no one Irish left to unite.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What does the average ra head think about this? Wouldn't strike me as being their gig, quite the opposite!

They will think whatever they are told to think, and many things about SF are hidden from them.

Swindled

Multiculturalism just means no culture. Like taking a palette of different paint colours and smearing them all into one featureless blob.
It's been trialled and failed in the UK, France etc. to name but a few.
Do we really aspire to having towns like Rotherham / Bradford etc. as per the UK ?
What's so wrong with countries having their own distant culture, ethnicity, culture and heritage ?
All countries should from Nigeria, to China to Ireland. - That's real diversity and multiculturalism.

Justin Credible Darts

I dont care if a person is black white blue or green, gay or straight or what ever gender they want to claim, but throughout all this thread, I am still waiting to hear what are the actual benefits of multiculturalism ?

Tony EH

Strumms wrote: »

Many immigrants are skilled... but we have a shortage of jobs, it’s not like we can say, “ohhh great, we have a skills shortage that needs filling, everyone is a winner ! “

So we are in truth...

- making the Irish jobs market more competitive..

- driving down wages

- driving down conditions

So the Irish person is getting fûcked under the bus..

All part of the Neo Lib model that's been in effect for over 20 years now. The importation of cheap labour inevitably drives down wages and creates the ability for employers to exploit the labour pool and decrease working conditions.

The idea is to keep everyone at each others throats scrabbling around for a basic job just to make ends meet. To encourage the idea that you should be thankful to have a job and to put up with any old shite. To demonise unions and develop the impression that they are a "bad" thing, while the employer gets to take the absolute piss time and time again.

As a state, we are getting worse and worse for our basic social norms. A home isn't even on the cards for far too many people. Jobs are transient and you're more likely to have a string of temporary positions before you're 35 than ever before. Debt is seen as "ok" due to easy credit and we are subject to a boom/bust cycle that only benefits to top X%.

All of this is getting "normalised" for the younger generations who grow up not knowing any different and we really are heading for a very bleak future if we continue down this road.

We had a chance to change things after 2008. But we ended voting the same old shite into power, just under a slightly different name. So we're back to where we were pre 08 crash.

And people are still wonder how we got here.

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I dont care if a person is black white blue or green, gay or straight or what ever gender they want to claim, but throughout all this thread, I am still waiting to hear what are the actual benefits of multiculturalism ?

Have you proved that monoculturalism is better?
I must have missed that part

Is North Korea a good example of the benefits of mono culture.

Do you consider Ireland currently to be a mono culture and if not how do aspire to make Ireland a monoculture?

TomTomTim

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Have you proved that monoculturalism is better?
I must have missed that part

Is North Korea a good example of the benefits of mono culture.

Do you consider Ireland currently to be a mono culture and if not how do aspire to make Ireland a monoculture?

Using one of the worst examples, an example that doesn't represent the average, is dishonest at best. Arguments like this are only ever made in desperation.

RobbieTheRobber

TomTomTim wrote: »

Using one of the worst examples, an example that doesn't represent the average, is dishonest at best. Arguments like this are only ever made in desperation.

Scared to answer any of the questions Tom.
What is a good example of mono cultural ism and how should Ireland aspire to be like them?

If you believe Ireland is not a mono cultural do you think it is multicultural currently?

How should we as a nation deal with the non irish born residents living here currently as we aspire to be a mono cultural society?


What are the first benefits Ireland would haon from attempting to become a mono culture?

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Have you proved that monoculturalism is better?
I must have missed that part

Is North Korea a good example of the benefits of mono culture.

Do you consider Ireland currently to be a mono culture and if not how do aspire to make Ireland a monoculture?

The onus is on the ones supporting the change to bring forward the reasons the change is positive.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

The onus is on the ones supporting the change to bring forward the reasons the change is positive.

Exactly and currently Ireland is multi cultural so why should we change back to mono culture and what benefits will it bring to Ireland.

DerekC16

Swindled wrote: »

Quite the non Irish Republic then. Irish out - Africans/Arabs/Muslims In, for the replantation of Ireland.
The terms Ireland and Irish have now become meaningless brand names.
The Irish have been fighting colonisation by others for over 800 years.
They say SF is mostly controlled by Mi5, I'm beginning to think so. No need to fight for a United Ireland, if there's no one Irish left to unite.



They will think whatever they are told to think, and many things about SF are hidden from them.

The sooner the better Sinn Fein get into power and make a balls of things the better, they can head back to the political wilderness then. Just look at young sinn Fein and other youth republican groups, little freaks that worship Lenin and Marx and a foreign ideology. These people are the future of Irish republicanism. The absolute state of it.

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

Using one of the worst examples, an example that doesn't represent the average, is dishonest at best. Arguments like this are only ever made in desperation.

Indeed. But let's run with that hail mary "argument" and look south of that border and the other Korea. An economic powerhouse growing by the year(as are many East Asian nations). South Korea is over 95% Korean. Japan is 98% Japanese. They have their own native ethnic minorities and that story hasn't always been a positive one. Let's look at China, the emerging superpower set to pass America. Although it has dozens of ethnic groups, again some not exactly faring too well, it is over 90% Han Chinese and out of a billion and a half people just under two million come from outside China. They're all more monocultural than Ireland.

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Exactly and currently Ireland is multi cultural so why should we change back to mono culture and what benefits will it bring to Ireland.

Fewer social divisions and issues along ethnic lines. As has been pointed out repeatedly, though ignored by the flagwavers, all societies have social problems, multiculturalism increases them and adds extra ones. Not least for the non native groups and the more obviously non native the more problems they face, or have you missed the worldwide BLM protests and debate? All coming from nations with generations, even centuries to make it work. And yet here we are.

Chips Lovell

While I'd definitely be more of a monocultural mindset there are some places where multiculturalism is a necessity, Northern Ireland being a case in point. Both cultures up there need to be given parity of esteem for the place to be even vaguely functional. There can't be any real Northern Irish culture, since people's cultural identity usually infuses their politics.

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

Fewer social divisions and issues along ethnic lines. As has been pointed out repeatedly, though ignored by the flagwavers, all societies have social problems, multiculturalism increases them and adds extra ones. Not least for the non native groups and the more obviously non native the more problems they face, or have you missed the worldwide BLM protests and debate? All coming from nations with generations, even centuries to make it work. And yet here we are.

So is china at over 90% Han Chinese a good example of mono culture and fewer social divisions and a society Ireland should strive to imitate. What aspects of the Chinese mono culture do you think we should seek to replicate?

In striving to be more like china how should we deal with the foreign born and non Irish born but not ethnically Irish residents living in the country in pursuit of the goal of monoculture?

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Fewer social divisions and issues along ethnic lines. As has been pointed out repeatedly, though ignored by the flagwavers, all societies have social problems, multiculturalism increases them and adds extra ones. Not least for the non native groups and the more obviously non native the more problems they face, or have you missed the worldwide BLM protests and debate? All coming from nations with generations, even centuries to make it work. And yet here we are.

So, because some people are racist and discriminate against minorities, the answer is don't allow minorities?
Brilliant.

Heard a report on the radio earlier in the week about LGBT in Africa, I assume something happened to trigger it but they said 31 countries have it illegal.

Yet the ones front and centre advocating to end DP and protesting for them are usually the LGBT community.

Little do they know theres a good chance a huge portion of those they're fighting for find their behaviour abhorrent.

Whether the videos are marked correctly(even if they're not it shows the disregard for life and development), for anyone who isnt quesy, search "Africa lynch gay" on YouTube and you'll see videos where people are beaten to death by mobs and set on fire.
Sometimes it even happens in busy towns and streets.

Swindled

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Heard a report on the radio earlier in the week about LGBT in Africa, I assume something happened to trigger it but they said 31 countries have it illegal.

Yet the ones front and centre advocating to end DP and protesting for them are usually the LGBT community.

Little do they know theres a good chance a huge portion of those they're fighting for find their behaviour abhorrent.

Whether the videos are marked correctly(even if they're not it shows the disregard for life and development), for anyone who isnt quesy, search "Africa lynch gay" on YouTube and you'll see videos where people are beaten to death by mobs and set on fire.
Sometimes it even happens in busy towns and streets.

Surely all the more reason to relocate all the LGBTQ+ in Africa to Ireland ? Problem solved.

RobbieTheRobber

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Heard a report on the radio earlier in the week about LGBT in Africa, I assume something happened to trigger it but they said 31 countries have it illegal.

Yet the ones front and centre advocating to end DP and protesting for them are usually the LGBT community.

Little do they know theres a good chance a huge portion of those they're fighting for find their behaviour abhorrent.

Whether the videos are marked correctly(even if they're not it shows the disregard for life and development), for anyone who isnt quesy, search "Africa lynch gay" on YouTube and you'll see videos where people are beaten to death by mobs and set on fire.
Sometimes it even happens in busy towns and streets.

How do these videos make you feel Gilberto. Do you have sympathy for the victim or do you feel empathy with the perpetrators?
Its unclear from your post.

Can you link your story and gore porn reference to the thread topic of multiculturalism in Ireland please. Are you in fear of violent African gangs committing gay lynching's in Ireland?

On the actual violence being committed surely if you knew there were other humans being violently persecuted in the world you would want to help them, right?

Swindled

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So is china at over 90% Han Chinese a good example of mono culture and fewer social divisions and a society Ireland should strive to imitate. What aspects of the Chinese mono culture do you think we should seek to replicate?

In striving to be more like china how should we deal with the foreign born and non Irish born but not ethnically Irish residents living in the country in pursuit of the goal of monoculture?

Ireland, at 25% has now the highest foreign born population in the EU, and rising. What % of indigenous Irish should be allowed to remain in Ireland, or what % would you like to see ?

What "multicultural" country, that previous had its own large indigenous ethnic population, do you aspire to being ?

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So is china at over 90% Han Chinese a good example of mono culture and fewer social divisions and a society Ireland should strive to imitate. What aspects of the Chinese mono culture do you think we should seek to replicate?

In striving to be more like china how should we deal with the foreign born and non Irish born but not ethnically Irish residents living in the country in pursuit of the goal of monoculture?

We can't, because that horse has bolted back in the Celtic Tiger and birthright passports and it has happened with a rapidity almost unknown among western nations. We've gone from well over 90% native population to 75% in a generation and the same patterns we see everywhere else are already in play here. We'll just have to live with the crap it will cause like every other nation that has tried to run this social experiment. And we've gone down this road with almost no discussion. When a debate was had over said birthright passports the Irish electorate closed that loophole by a landslide and by a higher percentage than either the SSM or choice votes, which we patted ourselves on the back over.

bubblypop wrote: »

So, because some people are racist and discriminate against minorities, the answer is don't allow minorities?
Brilliant.

No, realistic. Racism isn't going anywhere(and I'd contend it's much more than "some people" and across "races" too). That much is clear. Affiliations and prejudice along ethnic lines isn't going anywhere either. That much is also clear. It has been in play throughout recorded history and has always led to differing degrees of strife. It's in play in every single "multicultural" society on the planet and the same demographic trends follow similar patterns too. And yep racism is a huge part of it. I have never once denied that. The difference between us is that I look to the realities rather than hope and wishful thinking. The latter are very laudable and come from a good place, but that's not much use when reality comes a calling.

Wibbs

Swindled wrote: »

Ireland, at 25% has now the highest foreign born population in the EU, and rising. What % of indigenous Irish should be allowed to remain in Ireland, or what % would you like to see ?

What "multicultural" country, that previous had its own large indigenous ethnic population, do you aspire to being ?

The problem with supporters of this politic is that their only answers are; exoticism, charity and more locally the Irish were emigrants too. That's your lot. They have pretty much nothing left in the chamber after that. Multiculturalism is an Accepted Truth, an unquestioned credo, something one must have faith in for its own sake and to question it, however gingerly marks one out as a heretic.