What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

Because IMHO it can't be done. At least not when populations reach a certain size. People will naturally tend to drift towards those most similar to them. No matter what any government would do the same thing will play out, short of actively limiting people's accommodation choices.

Education and Legislation those are the tools of the state to fight racism.

Fandymo

bubblypop wrote: »

If you just can't back up your arguments, that's fair enough

Fingal was at 50% before they suddenly stopped reporting Irish/non-Irish. I wonder why they stopped.

RobbieTheRobber

Fandymo wrote: »

Fingal was at 50% before they suddenly stopped reporting Irish/non-Irish. I wonder why they stopped.

Id say "they" are trying to hide the truth man so they can secretly replace you with an immigrant.

Oh no "they" are going to get me!

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh right, and what is it that makes you better then other people?

Among others, my balance with the state is positive and my values align with the (most of) the Irish people.

But even not considering that, the immigration should be kept at a sustainable low level and this is my genuine opinion even if it were to affect me. Immigrants need to be few enough that they don't find it naturally to congregate and create isolated communities, or communities of people born and raised in Ireland that don't consider themselves Irish.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Among others, my balance with the state is positive and my values align with the (most of) the Irish people.

But even not considering that, the immigration should be kept at a sustainable low level and this is my genuine opinion even if it were to affect me. Immigrants need to be few enough that they don't find it naturally to congregate and create isolated communities, or communities of people born and raised in Ireland that don't consider themselves Irish.

Are you better then Irish people who depend on the state for housing and living?
Would you suggest that people of the same culture and backgrounds should not be allowed to create communities with their ex pats?

Fandymo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Have you proved that monoculturalism is better?
I must have missed that part

Is North Korea a good example of the benefits of mono culture.

Do you consider Ireland currently to be a mono culture and if not how do aspire to make Ireland a monoculture?

If multiculturalism is so great, why aren’t the looney left pushing it on countries with little to no other ethnic cultures? Why aren’t they flooding over to Nigeria etc to improve them and make them “better” with multiculturalism?? Why are they hogging multiculturalism for Europe? Isn’t this like colonialism all over again. Europe taking in all the multi-cultures (good apparently) and leaving Africa as a mono-culture (bad apparently). Why do the left hate Africa and Asia so much that they want to leave them as mono-cultures??

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Are you better then Irish people who depend on the state for housing and living?
Would you suggest that people of the same culture and backgrounds should not be allowed to create communities with their ex pats?

I'm not going to bite on the first one.
Second one, yes, it's not ideal to have it happening.

Fandymo

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, the answer to racism is to keep all different races and cultures away from each other.
Yep. That's it! Genius.

You realise that humans are tribal animals, and have been for millennia. It’s doubtful we would have survived as a race over thousands of years if we weren’t. There is a reason there are so many distinct racial/ethnic groups, sometimes within the same small area, and also worldwide.

RobbieTheRobber

Fandymo wrote: »

If multiculturalism is so great, why aren’t the looney left pushing it on countries with little to no other ethnic cultures? Why aren’t they flooding over to Nigeria etc to improve them and make them “better” with multiculturalism?? Why are they hogging multiculturalism for Europe? Isn’t this like colonialism all over again. Europe taking in all the multi-cultures (good apparently) and leaving Africa as a mono-culture (bad apparently). Why do the left hate Africa and Asia so much that they want to leave them as mono-cultures??

Got as far as the looney left and stopped reading. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Honestly politics isn't like a football team you don't have to stick with a side no matter what and holding the belief that either right or left as ideologies has any moral right over the other is just stupid.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

I'm not going to bite on the first one.
Second one, yes, it's not ideal to have it happening.

So you obviously do, or else you would answer.
Trying to dictate who people can or cannot be friends with, or become a community with, is not a democratic society anyone would want to live in.

You are no better, nor worse then anyone else.

enricoh

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So there are no anti immigrant posters in this thread is that your claim Klaz.
No anti EU posters?


The vast majority of immigrants to Ireland were prior to Covid in employment and productive for Irish society. So by your definition the vast majority of immigrants should be welcome.

I think the largest immigrant worker group in this country is the EU citizens bloc again productive positive members of Irelands multicultural society.

So what exactly is the problem if the vast majority of immigrants meet your definition for being positive?

Yeah, they were twice as likely as native Irish to require the government to pay the rent - let's get more eh?!

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Last year, I decided to ask the Department of Social Protection what percentage of rent supplement was paid out to non-Irish EU nationals, and non-EU nationals.

As at February of last year, the figure was 35pc. This is a remarkable total. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

So you obviously do, or else you would answer.

See below.

bubblypop wrote: »

Trying to dictate who people can or cannot be friends with, or become a community with, is not a democratic society anyone would want to live in.

I'm not trying to dictate, I'm trying to point out that it's a very sensible option to not create the situation in the first place.

bubblypop wrote: »

You are no better, nor worse then anyone else.

I never said I am.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Yeah, they were twice as likely as native Irish to require the government to pay the rent - let's get more eh?!

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Last year, I decided to ask the Department of Social Protection what percentage of rent supplement was paid out to non-Irish EU nationals, and non-EU nationals.

As at February of last year, the figure was 35pc. This is a remarkable total. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one.

Foreign born does not equal immigrant. Not does it equal foreigner

enricoh

Fandymo wrote: »

Fingal was at 50% before they suddenly stopped reporting Irish/non-Irish. I wonder why they stopped.

No bad news immigration stories allowed, thanks!

Fandymo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Got as far as the looney left and stopped reading. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Honestly politics isn't like a football team you don't have to stick with a side no matter what and holding the belief that either right or left as ideologies has any moral right over the other is just stupid.

If you can’t answer, a simple “I can’t answer” will do, rather than 6 lines.

Strumms

bubblypop wrote: »

Lucky for you we have controlled immigration so.
Except for EU members, as many as they want can come live here.

That’s because as members of the EU, we have agreed on that, it’s a situation brought about by democracy.... people from other EU countries...

I’ve lived in France, applied for a job before I moved, a global political organization, was successful, moved, worked, lived, earned, spent, contributed.. loved it and returned..I could do that as an Eu citizen.

It’s fair and responsible to allow EU citizens to move freely in this continent... goods, services and people can... perfect, it’s a success story.

To extend that outside of the 27 member states, is foolhardy.

The ten most poor countries in the world are in Africa.... millions or if not... billions of people who look to Eu for a better life but... they cannot be facilitated... neither room or the money... to do that...

Our resources need to be spent securing the wellbeing, health, security, happiness and successes of our citizens.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It’s fair and responsible to allow EU citizens to move freely in this continent... goods, services and people can... perfect, it’s a success story.

To extend that outside of the 27 member states, is foolhardy

It's lucky we don't then

Swindled

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm sure you'd be so understanding if it was you who were being locked out.

I'm locked out of many countries in the world, you don't hear me crying about it.
I can't demand to live there and be provided with housing ahead of their local citizens. And they are exactly right. Their country, their rules.

Salvation Tambourine

bubblypop wrote: »

Lucky for you we have controlled immigration so.

Controlled immigration that has allowed, according to the Department of Justice, at least 17,000 people become undocumented.

Controlled immigration that when asked cannot give figures on how many people have been deported after being given a deportation notice.

Does that sound controlled?

Swindled

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh right, and what is it that makes you better then other people?

So you don't believe he/she is a scarce resource like all the other engineers and doctors that Ireland can never produce itself ?

Strumms

Swindled wrote: »

I'm locked out of many countries in the world, you don't hear me crying about it.
I can't demand to live there and be provided with housing ahead of their local citizens. And they are exactly right. Their country, their rules.

This,

I cannot purchase a ticket to fly to Ethiopia, demand accommodation, cash payments and long term housing..

Why ? Because they don’t want me to be of that ability, they don’t believe that I should benefit from a six figure investment having no connection there...they don’t want me saying I’ll take a supermarket job, any job for peanuts... their rules as are ours here... might even become more tough and stringy, might have to.

Tony EH

Swindled wrote: »

I'm locked out of many countries in the world, you don't hear me crying about it.
I can't demand to live there and be provided with housing ahead of their local citizens. And they are exactly right. Their country, their rules.

Strumms wrote: »

This,

I cannot purchase a ticket to fly to Ethiopia, demand accommodation, cash payments and long term housing..

Why ? Because they don’t want me to be of that ability, they don’t believe that I should benefit from a six figure investment having no connection there...they don’t want me saying I’ll take a supermarket job, any job for peanuts... their rules as are ours here... might even become more tough and stringy, might have to.

Both of you are missing the point.

If person A gets to do something, and suddenly turns around and declares that YOU shouldn't be allowed to do the same, there will be few people who would declare that to be an OK attitude.

Justin Credible Darts

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Got as far as the looney left and stopped reading. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Honestly politics isn't like a football team you don't have to stick with a side no matter what and holding the belief that either right or left as ideologies has any moral right over the other is just stupid.

so you are either a liar and did indeed continue reading after claiming you stopped



or you replied to a post you did not read which is even worse.


Either way it makes you look idiotic, unable to accept points raised and shows how you only want to believe what suits you.


not that I am surprised of course,

Strumms

Tony EH wrote: »

Both of you are missing the point.

If person A gets to do something, and suddenly turns around and declares that YOU shouldn't be allowed to do the same, there will be few people who would declare that to be an OK attitude.

There are millions of examples where that is ok.....

Ireland play Italy next year in the Aviva stadium, capacity 51,700... when it’s sold out, it’s sold out, the venue can’t facilitate any more people. I cannot do the same as those 51,700 people.

I want to fly to New York, Aer Lingus June 18th, flights are booked out, should aer Lingus be forced to charter another aircraft for me and anybody who missed out ?

Life doesn’t work that way, never has...

Tony EH

Strumms wrote: »

There are millions of examples where that is ok.....

Ireland play Italy next year in the Aviva stadium, capacity 51,700... when it’s sold out, it’s sold out, the venue can’t facilitate any more people. I cannot do the same as those 51,700 people.

I want to fly to New York, Aer Lingus June 18th, flights are booked out, should aer Lingus be forced to charter another aircraft for me and anybody who missed out ?

Life doesn’t work that way, never has...

Nope. That's still missing the point.

Justin Credible Darts

Tony EH wrote: »

Nope. That's still missing the point.

no you are missing the point thinking everyone is equal....sounds nice but it aint true.


for example i don't think anyone with a criminal record should be left in,

some people are more skilled than others.


The Irish governments first duty is to its own citizens, not the people of other countries, that's their government's responsibility not ours.


We Irish put the irish government in power to represent us, our needs and priorities take precedent.
I have no problem with immigration, but there has to be a limit of how many, and what type we allow in.

Strumms

Tony EH wrote: »

Nope. That's still missing the point.

I’m not missing any point, unfortunately you don’t seem to have one... repeating what I have quoted won’t make you have a point.

Swindled

Tony EH wrote: »

Both of you are missing the point.

If person A gets to do something, and suddenly turns around and declares that YOU shouldn't be allowed to do the same, there will be few people who would declare that to be an OK attitude.

Actually you are missing the point.
If there are X genuine sustainable places available, and some else gets in there before you, that is indeed perfectly ok.

There's a certain number of VISA's available in any country, and that country gets to dictate the number available, not the applicants. I rightly don't dictate how many Visas should be available for me in the countries I would like to live and work in, and how long they should be open for. Nor do I demand they should provide me with housing ahead of their own citizens. Their country, their rules, and rightly so.

Tony EH

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

no you are missing the point thinking everyone is equal....sounds nice but it aint true.

Something I've never said.

Justin Credible Darts

Swindled wrote: »

Actually you are missing the point.
If there are X genuine sustainable places available, and some else gets in there before you, that is indeed perfectly ok.

There's a certain number of VISA's available in any country, and that country gets to dictate the number available, not the applicants. I rightly don't dictate how many Visas should be available for me in the countries I would like to live and work in, and how long they should be open for. Nor do I demand they should provide me with housing ahead of their own citizens. Their country, their rules, and rightly so.

exactly, who is going to pay for all these immigrants houses ?
Why should immigrants come here and get housed quicker than irish people who have paid into the system longer. ?


If an Irish person ten years on the housing list sees an immigrant get housed after 2 years is he not going to be more anti immigration and maybe even more racist ?


how is that a good thing ?