What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Justin Credible Darts

Bambi wrote: »

Here's a more obvious question: If they're here illegally, why does it matter?

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.


If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Here's a more obvious question: If they're here illegally, why does it matter?

Why does what matter?

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.


If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

decreds

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

RobbieTheRobber

decreds wrote: »

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

The end is nigh!

RulesOfNature

decreds wrote: »

Ireland has already been taken over thanks to the EU, it will be unrecognizable in a horrible way in as short as 20 years imo.

The men have become feminized and this is only getting once each generation, add to the mix that the media are doing everything they can to convince boys that masculinity is "toxic" and they should change gender, we will no doubt have the weakest "men" in history soon enough and therefore no one to defend us during this invasion/plantation.

I am actively planning to move my family out of here within 2-3 years. I may sound like a hypocrite in doing this but the difference is i will be moving my family to a country where hard work is appreciated and i will be doing so in a legal fashion vs illegally and claiming every benefit under the sun like an entitled leech (what is happening in Ireland right now).

F*ck off we're full.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.
I can't understand it, maybe they get them but then overstay the visas?
Guess it's more like the U.S. then we think.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.

Hmmm.... I wonder can it be worked the other way? Have a PPS number, but pay no tax. Asking for a friend.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

That's right Wibbs the elected government of Ireland is going to make decisions on how to run the state. Is that not the mandate of a Government?

Which page of the manifesto was the commitment to allow 20,000 fraudulent migrants access to our social welfare and housing? I can't seem to find it?

LostinBlanch

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Oh Wibbs no Civil Servant has the power to override enacted legislation on a whim. That would be stupid!

I don't know why you asked a question of Wibbs in a reply to me? Anybody that can read can see he's well able to answer for himself.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You know civil servants can't roll back an amendment to the constitution or enact legislation. You know this right?

Right, now read my full answer again, especially the bit in bold below about influencing the government to override one or either constitutional amendment.

Well, let's say a government of the day, or group of senior civil servants decided to roll back say the right to choose, or same sex marriage and influenced the government to over ride either of those constitutional amendments, would the reaction from certain quarters be so blase?

Once again the sentence is about influencing government behaviour to act in certain ways. Not deciding to do something and magically clicking their fingers to make it so. No matter how much you want to argue against that.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The Dail can't roll back a constitutional amendment either. They can enact legislation which is not unconstitutional. And the state needs the government to be able to enact legislation otherwise what is its purpose and who would enact legislation.

Would you be happy if the Oireachtas enacted legislation banning same sex marriage or a Womans right to choose? I doubt it. For the record I wouldn't be either, and think most people feel that way.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

I know, I asked much the same, but it appears to be true.
I can't understand it, maybe they get them but then overstay the visas?
Guess it's more like the U.S. then we think.

have you any proof of this ?

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do posters think that people who are living here, illegally, and are clearly looking after themselves are suddenly going to throw themselves into dole queues and housing queues?

Well, there's always a certain type that can only think in those terms. Everything for them is immigrant -> dole -> free stuff, blah blah blah. It's a complete waste of time even acknowledging people like that.

On the other hand, the "looking after themselves" angle is equally a fantasy. The base fact is that illegal immigration into any country is a negative thing. And that negativity increases exponentially the more of it that occurs. An illegal immigrant cannot get a (legal) job, they cannot get the dole, they cannot get onto any welfare assistance at all as they cannot receive a PPS number.

However, what they will do is pursue even more illegal routes while they continue to be "undocumented". So, that means operating completely in the shadows for everything. So they end up in the black economy for all their basic needs. That inevitably means that they are exploited by unscrupulous employers, live in terrible overcrowded conditions "provided" by our shitty landlord class, and can often resort to other crime as a means to make ends meet.

And the more of that that exists, the worse things become.

Our 20,000 (I'd say it's more) is a relatively low number. But the fact that they were able to slip through is enough to allow pause for thought on how leaky our immigration system really was/is and the fact that there needs to be some tightening up so that it doesn't get any worse.

Tony EH

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually, there are a lot of staff in care homes who are on the books and are paying taxes who are illegal.

You'll have to back that up.

While there's no doubt that illegal immigrants can get "work" of some sort, I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

If anything like that is actually occurring, it has to be on an extremely small scale and won't last too long.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

You'll have to back that up.

While there's no doubt that illegal immigrants can get "work" of some sort, I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

If anything like that is actually occurring, it has to be on an extremely small scale and won't last too long.

I was surprised too, I have nothing official, cos I heard about it through work. As far as I know the hse were telling the illegal workers that their status would not be looked at when they take the vaccines, as there were worried about that.

Anyway, when I asked around, many people who are here on visas, are allowed to work, so they just stay when the visa expires. So, illegal but already working and paying taxes etc.
Very similar to the U.S. I guess.

Actually, when you think about it, it makes sense, they are overstating visas, so they just continue to work.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Our 20,000 (I'd say it's more) is a relatively low number. But the fact that they were able to slip through is enough to allow pause for thought on how leaky our immigration system really was/is and the fact that there needs to be some tightening up so that it doesn't get any worse.

I think it is estimated as being between 20,000 & 26,000. But they didn't slip through anything. They entered through legal channels and just remained.

Wibbs

Tony EH wrote: »

I cannot see a situation whereby a system such as a HIQA regulated care home facility can just hire non PPS illegals and not meet with any trouble.

Having had at one time direct experiences with HIQA regulated care homes on behalf of a relative I'd not be nearly so sure about that. They're stretched thin, blind eyes are common within the care home industry, if relatives don't kick up stink little gets done and only squeaky wheels get the grease and sometimes they have to get very squeaky before they get it. Yes HIQA are on the ball when investigations are triggered, but they have to be triggered in the first place. I wouldn't be particularly surprised at all that some illegal workers get through that pretty open net.

bubblypop wrote: »

I think it is estimated as being between 20,000 & 26,000. But they didn't slip through anything. They entered through legal channels and just remained.

Remained illegally. Whether someone hops off a container in a port, or doesn't renew their visa they're both living in this country illegally. There are also support networks that enable this too.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Remained illegally. Whether someone hops off a container in a port, or doesn't renew their visa they're both living in this country illegally. There are also support networks that enable this too.

Yep. Illegal.

Annasopra

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

It matters because firstly it allows greedy business owners who break the law and hire them and pay them off the books, thus meaning one less job for an irish person who should be paid the minimum wage at least.


If these illegals were not here, who knows maybe more jobs for the people paying actual tax.

But if a greedy business owner can get non Irish to work illegally then they'll probably find Irish to work illegally. Like why is the business owner suddenly going to start legitamately putting employees on their tax books?

Salvation Tambourine

Wibbs wrote: »

How can someone be on the books and paying taxes and also be illegal migrants without a PPS number? Genuine question.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/12e6de-get-a-personal-public-service-pps-number/

The documents it seems needed are proof of identity, address and reason for PPSN. As far as I can see there is nothing about proof of valid Visa for non EU people.

Also, as another poster said you can get a PPSN while on a valid Visa and keep it once it expires. If we aren't checking if someone we've given a deportation notice to has actually left the country we've hardly got a system in place that invalidates a PPSN once documentation has expired.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

On the other hand, the "looking after themselves" angle is equally a fantasy. The base fact is that illegal immigration into any country is a negative thing. And that negativity increases exponentially the more of it that occurs. An illegal immigrant cannot get a (legal) job, they cannot get the dole, they cannot get onto any welfare assistance at all as they cannot receive a PPS number.

I posted this before, but it's useful to have a look at it, just to be aware of what illegals can avail of.. and the advice being given out. (Also worth noting that the website is supported by a government grant)

Salvation Tambourine

Deleted User wrote: »

I posted this before, but it's useful to have a look at it, just to be aware of what illegals can avail of.. and the advice being given out. (Also worth noting that the website is supported by a government grant)

Reading that was really weird.

Can I access social welfare? (unemployment benefit)
Unfortunately there is no access for undocumented people to social welfare

"Unfortunately" someone not legally allowed live in the state can't receive free money from the state. As if there's something fundamentally wrong with this outcome. It's absolutely bizarre.

Tony EH

Wibbs wrote: »

Having had at one time direct experiences with HIQA regulated care homes on behalf of a relative I'd not be nearly so sure about that. They're stretched thin, blind eyes are common within the care home industry, if relatives don't kick up stink little gets done and only squeaky wheels get the grease and sometimes they have to get very squeaky before they get it. Yes HIQA are on the ball when investigations are triggered, but they have to be triggered in the first place. I wouldn't be particularly surprised at all that some illegal workers get through that pretty open net.

Both my parents went through care homes and I have rels in a couple at the moment. I also know people working in them. Where my mother and father stayed, we got pretty friendly with the staff, who I have to say were great irrespective of where they were from. We also got chatting to managerial staff too. I know for a fact that where my parents were were subject to spot checks on a fairly regular basis too.

Personally, I'd be very surprised if what Bubblypop is saying is even remotely true and that "a lot" of the staff are illegal immigrants working in care homes, especially in the state run facilities.

I'd daresay that that isn't the case at all though, my limited personal experiences notwithstanding of course.

There, for sure, might be the odd few here and there that are "pending" as it were, or have "overstayed" a work visa. But that's not the same as "a lot".

Fair enough, you can believe what you want but like I said, I cannot give you links because I don't have any.
But I do know a number of premises that have immigrants working there, who are illegal for ten years.

Maybe a better way to put it would be a lot of illegal immigrants are employed in care homes. Not that a lot of their staff are illegal.

archfi

Deleted User wrote: »

I posted this before, but it's useful to have a look at it, just to be aware of what illegals can avail of.. and the advice being given out. (Also worth noting that the website is supported by a government grant)

Quite extraordinary.

archfi

bubblypop wrote: »

Fair enough, you can believe what you want but like I said, I cannot give you links because I don't have any.
But I do know a number of premises that have immigrants working there, who are illegal for ten years.

Maybe a better way to put it would be a lot of illegal immigrants are employed in care homes. Not that a lot of their staff are illegal.

I well believe you.
It is obvious that there is a 'collusion' (I can't think of a better word tbh) between the State and dedicated NGO's that undermines our often reported 'robust control procedures'.

Swindled

Deleted User wrote: »

I posted this before, but it's useful to have a look at it, just to be aware of what illegals can avail of.. and the advice being given out. (Also worth noting that the website is supported by a government grant)

Can you imagine a government funded NGO guide to drug dealing (Social entrepreneur)

"1. Frist you need to contact your wholesale supplier, we recommend . . . "

And the NGO's are all being pumped full of money and jobs to provide all this ?

I knew the outlook/future was awful, but this is utterly eye opening, and proof positive that is policy is official and no accident as some would have you believe.

Import the third world . . become the third world. This is happened time and time before anywhere else it was done . . ghetto's / police no go areas, you name it. Thank God we still have a minimum wage for now, that's all I can say. Future generations can kiss goodbye to ever owning their own home, or affording to raise a family legally. No wonder the vulture funds are buying up estates know the social housing demand that's coming, they are licking their lips.

Happydays2020

Unless we want to have crappy pensions and greater poverty our demographics mean we will need a higher working population in 20 years so we will end up with a fa more multi cultural society.

I think this is a great thing. We should embrace it. If we have anyone undocumented we should have a clear mechanism to regularise and then allow citizenship.

ThunbergsAreGo

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Unless we want to have crappy pensions and greater poverty our demographics mean we will need a higher working population in 20 years so we will end up with a fa more multi cultural society.

I think this is a great thing. We should embrace it. If we have anyone undocumented we should have a clear mechanism to regularise and then allow citizenship.

What happens when they need pensions?
What happens if they need social welfare?
What happens if they work in low paid jobs (which is likely for those undocumented) and thus pay very little tax?

This pension pyramid scheme justification is pure smoke and mirrors

titan18

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Unless we want to have crappy pensions and greater poverty our demographics mean we will need a higher working population in 20 years so we will end up with a fa more multi cultural society.

I think this is a great thing. We should embrace it. If we have anyone undocumented we should have a clear mechanism to regularise and then allow citizenship.

How about a radical idea of making it easier for people already living here to buy houses, have kids etc rather than them not choosing to due to it being too expensive and we can't afford it.