What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

22-05-2021 6:17pm

decreds wrote: »

This right here, if a political party approached uncontrolled reckless immigration that we are suffering from this point of view they would have my vote and over half a dozen within my family alone.

Where is the uncontrolled immigration? Not in Ireland, because we have controlled immigration.

22-05-2021 6:19pm

decreds wrote: »

This.

I'd love to know the root cause, i'm leaning towards social engineering in western culture think feminism, wokeness etc. Our children are now being brain washed.

I like to picture these people as trolls living at home and under 18 but the sad reality is some of these people will somehow become politicians someday. While most will just claim benefits and blame society while self declaring as "artists" or some sh1te like that.

I can't think of one Irish politician connected to any of the parties who wants tighter controls on immigration, even to bring us in line with other countries.

I can't think of one who wants to crack down on illegal immigration properly or deport those who shouldn't be here.

Unfortunately politics attracts these type of people but ultimately it's up to the people who keep voting them in.

Keep questioning them and telling them you oppose mass immigration and illegal immigration. They'll ignore you but at least you'll have registered your opposition to their tactics.

22-05-2021 6:21pm

decreds wrote: »

The posters making outlandish claims like "there's no illegal immigrants in Ireland" or "all immigrants add value".

They can also be identified by the thrash and baseless claims they spout and debate purely on emotion and display next to no capacity for logical thought.

You have a search engine, type "what does woke actually mean" and hit enter.

Emerge or cause to emerge from sleep
Become alert to or aware of
Cause to stir or come to life

Don't get it.

How are bleeding hearts the posters saying immigrants add value?

22-05-2021 6:22pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Where is the uncontrolled immigration? Not in Ireland, because we have controlled immigration.

By definition if we stop 1 person entering Ireland we have "controlled" immigration. It's just another tactic you use to stop discussion. What we have is mass immigration and no there isn't a dictionary definition of it but the numbers per head of population have us right up there on a worldwide basis.

22-05-2021 6:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By definition if we stop 1 person entering Ireland we have "controlled" immigration. It's just another tactic you use to stop discussion. What we have is mass immigration and no there isn't a dictionary definition of it but the numbers per head of population have us right up there on a worldwide basis.

How many do you think we should allow in?

Justin Credible Darts · 22-05-2021 6:27pm

decreds wrote: »

This.

I'd love to know the root cause, i'm leaning towards social engineering in western culture think feminism, wokeness etc. Our children are now being brain washed.

I like to picture these people as trolls living at home and under 18 but the sad reality is some of these people will somehow become politicians someday. While most will just claim benefits and blame society while self declaring as "artists" or some sh1te like that.

Its like being white is almost evil.
if you are white and male then even worse.
god fordid you are white, male and straight, then there is no hope for you.

I have in the past seen people speak about "Proud to be Irish"

for the record, I dont think anyone should ever be proud of being something they had no choice in. Thats akin to being proud of being left legged or right handed or proud not to be bald.

Its like gay pride, or proud to be irish, why take pride in something you had absolutely no control over, In the words of George Carlin pride should be reserved for something you achieve, be it a wall you built, a painting you did etc, not because you come from a certain place on a map.

However there is a human desire to protect what you are used to, your way of life, your culture, that is not a national thing or anything to do with skin color..its all about tribe or what you consider your tribe or what is familiar to you.
There are plenty of Irish born non whites who are against the mass immigration, are they racist ?

if we are all truly equal, and there should be no such thing as borders and people think we should be able to come and go as we please, then are white people not the minority then in terms of global population ?
This confuses the woke people.

decreds · 22-05-2021 6:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

By definition if we stop 1 person entering Ireland we have "controlled" immigration. It's just another tactic you use to stop discussion. What we have is mass immigration and no there isn't a dictionary definition of it but the numbers per head of population have us right up there on a worldwide basis.

Just noticed they must be a troll. They've been nauseatingly replying to my posts talking dribble, best to ignore.

22-05-2021 6:31pm

bubblypop wrote: »

How many do you think we should allow in?

I've given that answer previously. How many do you think should be allowed in per annum? Do you want any caps? Should it be 30,000 a year into Ireland, 100,000, maybe a million?

How many should be allowed into the EU every year? Should it be 1 million, 5 million, 10 million per year?

I'd be genuinely interested in your figures. For reference I've previously stated that I'd be happy with Macrons proposal for France to be implemented in Ireland. He wants a cap of 30,000 non EU immigrants a year allowed into France, that would give Ireland a nett immigration figure of 2,000 non EU per year. We had 10 times that in 2019.

22-05-2021 6:39pm

Wibbs wrote: »

As I say we have enough homegrown social problems and they don't come cheap socially or financially, so why import more? Some misplaced form of charity? Charity, as the saying goes, begins at home.

The interesting thing about racism is that it only seems to matter when White people engage in it. Like, racism is commonplace throughout the world (I've been on the receiving end of it in Asia and Africa), and many of the people who migrate to Europe will be bringing their own brand of racism, whether that's cultural or personal... but I never see any desire to educate migrants on racism. It's as if there's a belief that because some migrant groups experience racism, then, their own racism isn't worthy of comment. And if it is down to some (mistaken) belief in a power difference, surely migrants who do well in western nations will have that power to apply racism to others and therefore being worthy of criticism? But nah.. it's only an issue when White people engage in it.

22-05-2021 6:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be genuinely interested in your figures. For reference I've previously stated that I'd be happy with Macrons proposal for France to be implemented in Ireland. He wants a cap of 30,000 non EU immigrants a year allowed into France, that would give Ireland a nett immigration figure of 2,000 non EU per year. We had 10 times that in 2019.

I think we need to carefully consider whether these numbers of migrants compose of those staying/working for a few years (temporary visas) or those who are aiming to become citizens. 30k migrants a year all of whom are eligible to become citizens would seriously affect the social fabric of Ireland.

When I lived in Oz, they had a limit on the numbers who could gain residency for that year. That makes sense. Place a cap on the numbers who can gain residency, but also a cap on those who can gain citizenship. Place some value on having both statuses beyond the obvious gains of employment or benefits.

Honestly, I'd be happy with a more stringent testing of applicants for citizenship. Temp visas for sponsored work positions can be handed out like candy, because people aren't entitled to much under such a scheme... however, we should be placing potential citizens under an investigatory period of say, ten years, during which they meet certain standards (employment, lack of criminality, etc) before they become citizens. And this shouldn't be open to students, but only those who can work.. let's have migrants who can actually provide something to the nation. That probationary period shouldn't include the time spent under a working visa.

We are a first world nation with plenty of offer migrants wanting to settle here. Why the rush to accept those who won't contribute properly to the nation?

22-05-2021 6:59pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think we need to carefully consider whether these numbers of migrants compose of those staying/working for a few years (temporary visas) or those who are aiming to become citizens. 30k migrants a year all of whom are eligible to become citizens would seriously affect the social fabric of Ireland.

When I lived in Oz, they had a limit on the numbers who could gain residency for that year. That makes sense. Place a cap on the numbers who can gain residency, but also a cap on those who can gain citizenship. Place some value on having both statuses beyond the obvious gains of employment or benefits.

Honestly, I'd be happy with a more stringent testing of applicants for citizenship. Temp visas for sponsored work positions can be handed out like candy, because people aren't entitled to much under such a scheme... however, we should be placing potential citizens under an investigatory period of say, ten years, during which they meet certain standards (employment, lack of criminality, etc) before they become citizens. And this shouldn't be open to students, but only those who can work.. let's have migrants who can actually provide something to the nation. That probationary period shouldn't include the time spent under a working visa.

We are a first world nation with plenty of offer migrants wanting to settle here. Why the rush to accept those who won't contribute properly to the nation?

Yes, agreed.

In general, I'm pro-migration but it should be strictly limited and for the benefit of Irish society. It should never have been allowed get to 18%+ of our population and still rapidly rising. I'm from a working class area of Ireland and the changes to our community in the last 20 years have been over-whelming, it's deeply unfair on our children.

My disdain for Irish politicians is because they wouldn't dare change their own communities at the pace they've changed ours.

22-05-2021 7:04pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Its like being white is almost evil.
if you are white and male then even worse.
god fordid you are white, male and straight, then there is no hope for you.

I have in the past seen people speak about "Proud to be Irish"

for the record, I dont think anyone should ever be proud of being something they had no choice in. Thats akin to being proud of being left legged or right handed or proud not to be bald.

Its like gay pride, or proud to be irish, why take pride in something you had absolutely no control over, In the words of George Carlin pride should be reserved for something you achieve, be it a wall you built, a painting you did etc, not because you come from a certain place on a map.

However there is a human desire to protect what you are used to, your way of life, your culture, that is not a national thing or anything to do with skin color..its all about tribe or what you consider your tribe or what is familiar to you.
There are plenty of Irish born non whites who are against the mass immigration, are they racist ?

if we are all truly equal, and there should be no such thing as borders and people think we should be able to come and go as we please, then are white people not the minority then in terms of global population ?
This confuses the woke people.

This whole post is confusing and not because I'm awake or whatever
I don't know why you think being white is evil.
I agree no-one should be proud of something they had no act in.

There are Irish born non whites, there are Irish born whites, there are Irish born non irish, there are non Irish born Irish, they can be for or against immigration, that's their own choice.
are they racist? That depends on them.

Of course there are borders in the world, I don't know anyone who believes in uncontrolled immigration!
And if white people are the minority in the world, what does that mean? Or matter?

22-05-2021 7:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've given that answer previously. How many do you think should be allowed in per annum? Do you want any caps? Should it be 30,000 a year into Ireland, 100,000, maybe a million?

How many should be allowed into the EU every year? Should it be 1 million, 5 million, 10 million per year?

I'd be genuinely interested in your figures. For reference I've previously stated that I'd be happy with Macrons proposal for France to be implemented in Ireland. He wants a cap of 30,000 non EU immigrants a year allowed into France, that would give Ireland a nett immigration figure of 2,000 non EU per year. We had 10 times that in 2019.

I don't have numbers. I think it's weird to have numbers.
I think there should be visas given out to workers, depending on the need in this country.
I believe EU citizens can live and work here, as per the law, but I believe they should have to register their residence somewhere.
I believe that asylum seekers and refugees should be taken in as per international agreement.

22-05-2021 7:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The interesting thing about racism is that it only seems to matter when White people engage in it. Like, racism is commonplace throughout the world (I've been on the receiving end of it in Asia and Africa)

Not true.
I've been on the receiving end myself.
That doesn't make it ok, just because others do it?

22-05-2021 7:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, agreed.

In general, I'm pro-migration but it should be strictly limited and for the benefit of Irish society. It should never have been allowed get to 18%+ of our population and still rapidly rising. I'm from a working class area of Ireland and the changes to our community in the last 20 years have been over-whelming, it's deeply unfair on our children.

My disdain for Irish politicians is because they wouldn't dare change their own communities at the pace they've changed ours.

I'm neither pro or anti migration. Migration exists, and it's not going to end. The best we can do is ensure that it's managed in a manner that benefits the nation. As for being working class or middle class, I would say both groups have been heavily impacted by the last twenty years.

As for Irish politicians, they don't all live in foxrock or similar posh areas. Many of their own communities will have been affected by migration.. the issue is more to do with whether they care, and/or take responsibility for the consequences of their decisions. I suspect it comes down to a lack of responsibility...

22-05-2021 7:13pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't have numbers. I think it's weird to have numbers.
I think there should be visas given out to workers, depending on the need in this country.
I believe EU citizens can live and work here, as per the law, but I believe they should have to register their residence somewhere.
I believe that asylum seekers and refugees should be taken in as per international agreement.

Ok, fair enough.

I fundamentally disagree, numbers aren't weird. Society will collapse without proper immigration control, including eventually the areas where the rich and politicians live.

22-05-2021 7:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm neither pro or anti migration. Migration exists, and it's not going to end. The best we can do is ensure that it's managed in a manner that benefits the nation. As for being working class or middle class, I would say both groups have been heavily impacted by the last twenty years.

As for Irish politicians, they don't all live in foxrock or similar posh areas. Many of their own communities will have been affected by migration.. the issue is more to do with whether they care, and/or take responsibility for the consequences of their decisions. I suspect it comes down to a lack of responsibility...

Indeed, lack of responsibility is an issue.

True, all the politicians don't live in rich areas but the area I live in is a huge geographical area where the working class communities are represented by people who live nowhere near these areas.

I suspect it may be different in Dublin where some of them live closer to rapidly changing areas but they have the safety valve of earning enough money to move if the shtf...

22-05-2021 7:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok, fair enough.

I fundamentally disagree, numbers aren't weird. Society will collapse without proper immigration control, including eventually the areas where the rich and politicians live.

I do agree with immigration control, as I outlined.
Not sure about where the rich and politicians live? There are immigrants everywhere in our society.

Justin Credible Darts · 22-05-2021 7:20pm

bubblypop wrote: »

This whole post is confusing and not because I'm awake or whatever
I don't know why you think being white is evil.
I agree no-one should be proud of something they had no act in.

There are Irish born non whites, there are Irish born whites, there are Irish born non irish, there are non Irish born Irish, they can be for or against immigration, that's their own choice.
are they racist? That depends on them.

Of course there are borders in the world, I don't know anyone who believes in uncontrolled immigration!
And if white people are the minority in the world, what does that mean? Or matter?

because there is a clear agenda today trying to brainwash people with made up bull****.

for example "White guilt"
Why should i or anyone have some guilt because of what people did centuries ago ?
I never had a slave, nor owned one or sold one, the whole idea repulses me but why should I be expected to have guilt because I am white.
not only that most slavery was and still is to this day committed by non white people, are they expected to have arab guilt, black guilt....why is it only white guilt ? We Irish were taken as slaves, you dont see that been mentioned much.

And another thing, we Irish never had a slave trade, so not only am I expected to have guilt for people centuries ago, but have it for people who were not even from this country centuries ago.

Then there is this horse**** "white privilege",.
Sorry i got nothing handed to me for being born white which i again had no say in. Everything i have I bought out of my money i earned by working, I was handed nothing.
In fact being white is not an advantage these days it can most certainly be a disadvantage, I dont get to play a race card, I wont get hired to make up numbers to tick some boxes.

My wife is non white, born outside Ireland, I have nothing against people coming here. I welcome them if they are legal and contribute to society

But there has to be a limit on how many we take, nort tens of thousand milking the state dry.
Have i not a right to dictate where my tax goes, and are our own citizens not more important ?

We need to do something about the limits we take...regardless of color, gender, religion etc.

I think even EU citizens with a criminal record should be denied entry to this country, we have our own social problems, housing issues and our own scum and criminals without importing others.

22-05-2021 7:23pm

You shouldn't have 'white guilt ' don't know why you would, I dont, nor will I ever feel the need to have it. Maybe you shouldn't be so influenced by social media?
There is immigration control, and I think everyone agrees on controls.

I will go further, right now EU citizens can come in and live and work here, I believe they should be required to register, without this we have no say on anyone moving here with criminal records or whatever, and absolutely no idea who lives here.
Non EU immigrants are recorded.

So, we are in agreement

22-05-2021 7:25pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I do agree with immigration control, as I outlined.
Not sure about where the rich and politicians live? There are immigrants everywhere in our society.

The over whelming majority end up in working class or poorer areas. There were politicians in Cork tweeting a few years back in support of a marketing campaign that used the fact that Cork City center was minority Irish as a selling point.

Imagine the outrage if this was the other way around with them celebrating an area was majority Irish....

22-05-2021 7:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The over whelming majority end up in working class or poorer areas. There were politicians in Cork tweeting a few years back in support of a marketing campaign that used the fact that Cork City center was minority Irish as a selling point.

Imagine the outrage if this was the other way around with them celebrating an area was majority Irish....

I don't know anything about that cork thing, but you suggest the majority of immigrants live in poorer areas? Why is that, do you think?
Lots of politicians live in working class areas.

22-05-2021 7:32pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't know anything about that cork thing, but you suggest the majority of immigrants live in poorer areas? Why is that, do you think?
Lots of politicians live in working class areas.

Its obvious why they live there, it's what they can afford, that's not the point.

I want limits on the numbers entering Ireland, we have one of the most open immigration systems in the world. Most Irish TDs don't live in working class areas.

Justin Credible Darts · 22-05-2021 7:37pm

bubblypop wrote: »

You shouldn't have 'white guilt ' don't know why you would, I dont, nor will I ever feel the need to have it. Maybe you shouldn't be so influenced by social media?

I dont have it, as I already said I dont believe that nonsense, but sadly many other people are buying into this nonsense .

We are expected to simply welcome people by the tens of thousands in to this country, both legally and illegally and not be expected to question it ?

I am not saying you personally, but others in this thread seem to think its okay for other countries to have their culture and heritage, but ours here in Ireland is less important and can be diluted and watered down so much we lose it .That is not right.

Then there are the financial aspects, we have more than enough of our own social issues, without compounding it by adding more.

We cannot even look after our own people as it is never mind others.And every foreigner that gets help first it is at the expense of one of our own citizens.

I could go on about the criminals, the tax avoidance, housing etc and other issues, but there is only so many we should take.

Justin Credible Darts · 22-05-2021 7:39pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't know anything about that cork thing, but you suggest the majority of immigrants live in poorer areas? Why is that, do you think?
Lots of politicians live in working class areas.

yes politicians might live in working class area, but they aint in no council house though, i bet its a very nice house.

22-05-2021 7:48pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

yes politicians might live in working class area, but they aint in no council house though, i bet its a very nice house.

There definitely are TDs living in council estates, not too many but it happens. There are plenty of county councillors, in Dublin anyway, living in council estates.

This is like the argument I see on boards all the time, there are no immigrants or travellers in 'rich areas'!

There was a direct provision centre in Killiney hill for years.
There are travellers sites in blackrock, Booterstown, foxrock, carrickmines, cabinteely, dun laoghaire, sandyford, shankill, rathmichael.

There are asylum seekers in my (very small) hometown, in their own door accommodation and there was a direct provision centre years ago.

These things do not just happen in 'working class' or 'poor areas'
Perhaps the people in those areas complain about it more?

Justin Credible Darts · 22-05-2021 7:52pm

bubblypop wrote: »

There definitely are TDs living in council estates, not too many but it happens. There are plenty of county councillors, in Dublin anyway, living in council estates.

This is like the argument I see on boards all the time, there are no immigrants or travellers in 'rich areas'!

There was a direct provision centre in Killiney hill for years.
There are travellers sites in blackrock, Booterstown, foxrock, carrickmines, cabinteely, dun laoghaire, sandyford, shankill, rathmichael.

There are asylum seekers in my (very small) hometown, in their own door accommodation and there was a direct provision centre years ago.

These things do not just happen in 'working class' or 'poor areas'
Perhaps the people in those areas complain about it more?

I know some immigrants have done very well for themselves, but the majority are on the minimum wage, and some under it, much like the majority of our own population.

I suspect the illegal ones are getting even less,

22-05-2021 7:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Its obvious why they live there, it's what they can afford, that's not the point.

I want limits on the numbers entering Ireland, we have one of the most open immigration systems in the world. Most Irish TDs don't live in working class areas.

It's the wrong tack to take, since the middle class are just as affected by the immigration situation as the working class. Council houses are often taken in middle class neighborhoods, and the days when working class areas were cut off from others communities is long finished.

Your logic seeks to reinforce past/traditional views of the working class as if they're still relevant... and they're not. The access to education, government supports, etc all place "most" working class in the same position as the middle class. There's little difference between them anymore, except for those closest to the bottom... and I know a few families scraping the bottom, but are still considered to be middle class, regardless of their actual circumstances.

Don't fall into the trap that SF promotes by focusing on the working class. The issues of this thread concern Irish people of both backgrounds. Which is especially true for anyone (of any background) buying their first house and settling down... there's a very good chance that one or two houses in their immediate area were reserved by the council.

22-05-2021 7:58pm

bubblypop wrote: »

There definitely are TDs living in council estates, not too many but it happens. There are plenty of county councillors, in Dublin anyway, living in council estates.

This is like the argument I see on boards all the time, there are no immigrants or travellers in 'rich areas'!

There was a direct provision centre in Killiney hill for years.
There are travellers sites in blackrock, Booterstown, foxrock, carrickmines, cabinteely, dun laoghaire, sandyford, shankill, rathmichael.

There are asylum seekers in my (very small) hometown, in their own door accommodation and there was a direct provision centre years ago.

These things do not just happen in 'working class' or 'poor areas'
Perhaps the people in those areas complain about it more?

By and large the burden falls on working class and poorer areas. I mentioned TDs because they are in charge of our immigration policies, councillors are a different story, they are involved with local issues not directly with country wide specific areas such as immigration. Anyway, this is taking away from the discussion of immigration.

I want strict controls like practically every other country in the world along with a specific cap on numbers. We will get it eventually, people are getting fed up throughout Europe and America with what is going on. Non EU and American countries wouldn't allow this craziness to happen.

22-05-2021 8:03pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I want strict controls like practically every other country in the world along with a specific cap on numbers. We will get it eventually, people are getting fed up throughout Europe and America with what is going on. Non EU and American countries wouldn't allow this craziness to happen.

This is supposedly about multiculturalism, but it always descends into the poorer immigrants!

We do have strict controls on immigration, in fact I would say that EU immigration is a bigger issue, if you are worried about social supports in this country.

Also, we have absolutely No Idea what EU citizens live in this country. None whatsoever.

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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