What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

You continuously claimed that 20,000 were already through - Thats false. It hasnt happened.

You are claiming the scheme will not be a one off - Thats false. It is a once off time limited scheme.

Your claims are false.

Also claims that his employer was handing out visas!!

Swindled

Annasopra wrote: »

You continuously claimed that 20,000 were already through - Thats false. It hasnt happened.

You are claiming the scheme will not be a one off - Thats false. It is a once off time limited scheme.

Your claims are false.

Either the estimates are true or they are false, and so is the claim that no one will ever come again when they hear, or be given it again.

Chips Lovell

Chips Lovell wrote: »

17,000 to 20,000 is the estimate of the number illegal migrants currently in the state, not the estimate of who'll be granted it this year.

No, it's not. 17,000 is the estimate of the number who will begin the process later this year and next which will eventually lead to citizenship. The immigrant council of Ireland estimate the illegal population at 30,000, which going off other European countries is a massive undercount.

enricoh

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Of all the non-EU nationals that came to Ireland to work last year do people know what occupation topped the list? Anyone know what occupation came second?

Doctors topped the list.

Nurses were second.

Both added together accounted for nearly one third of all employment permits issued. ICT jobs, mostly highly paid roles, accounted for almost a further third.

Pesky highly paid foreigners coming over here and adding value to our society.

Kindly explain how come all these highly paid foreigners are twice as likely to require paddy taxpayer to pay their rent?!

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Last year, I decided to ask the Department of Social Protection what percentage of rent supplement was paid out to non-Irish EU nationals, and non-EU nationals.

As at February of last year, the figure was 35pc. This is a remarkable total. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one.

Swindled

Deleted User wrote: »

which will eventually lead to citizenship..

yep, citizenship, not even Visa's, come in illegally, show no respect for the law, give whatever ID you want, get full citizenship.

Chips Lovell

Chips Lovell wrote: »

There isn't a push for mass immigration from outside the EU. As Wibbs pointed out, the vast majority of immigration is from EU countries.

It's pretty hard to get a visa for someone from outside the EU and anyone who gets here outside of the work visa regime, it's very much despite of not because Irish/EU immigration policy.

The majority of Ireland's immigration now comes from outside the EU and it's been this way for the last number of years. CSO stats are available.

Swindled

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Of all the non-EU nationals that came to Ireland to work last year do people know what occupation topped the list? Anyone know what occupation came second?

Doctors topped the list.

Nurses were second.

Both added together accounted for nearly one third of all employment permits issued. ICT jobs, mostly highly paid roles, accounted for almost a further third.

Pesky highly paid foreigners coming over here and adding value to our society.

Tell us why are we not able to produce enough of our own Doctors and Nurses ? And why do we need to take them from countries that badly need their own ?

ICT, highly paid roles my ass, the ones in the multinational I worked in were on 32k, and 99% of the work could have been done by young local Irish graduates from the local colleges no bother, who were sending in CV's left right and centre, looking for a start.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one.

Every time you post this, I will remind you that foreign born does not mean immigrant.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The majority of Ireland's immigration now comes from outside the EU and it's been this way for the last number of years. CSO stats are available.

Want to give us a link?

Swindled

Swindled wrote: »

yep, citizenship, not even Visa's, come in illegally, show no respect for the law, give whatever ID you want, get full citizenship.

The majority of people here illegaly, entered the country through legal chanels. Very few enter illegally. Why would they?

Chips Lovell

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it didn't happen. What I was taking issue with was the suggestion that all of the estimated 20,0000 illegals had already been granted permission to remain without any checks.

Well, they've been granted permission to stay since the idea has been put forward and the campaign to make the idea acceptable is being applied. Do you really think they're going to start enforcing the laws and start deporting the current population of illegals.. now? Hardly.

So, while they haven't received official permission to stay (yet), unofficially, they may as well have it.

Annasopra

Swindled wrote: »

yep, citizenship, not even Visa's, come in illegally, show no respect for the law, give whatever ID you want, get full citizenship.

Going through a legal process of regularisation is absolutely showing respect for the law

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

The majority of people here illegaly, entered the country through legal chanels. Very few enter illegally. Why would they?

Lol, they came in legally and only then did they start breaking our laws. Well that's ok so, let's reward them with the most precious thing any state can offer to a non citizen.

It's rewarding law breakers, that is a fact and it's giving two fingers to Irish citizens and legal immigrants who obey our laws. It's also removing the opportunity for the jobs they have to be given to Irish citizens or future legal migrants.

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

Going through a legal process of regularisation is absolutely showing respect for the law

Haha, they've been breaking our laws for years and no amount of revisionism from you or others will change that.

tdf7187

My view is simple, we have a de-facto open borders immigration policy. The lack of political debate around this issue is troubling. Any who questions it is immediately shouted down with cries of 'racist!' etc.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, they've been granted permission to stay since the idea has been put forward and the campaign to make the idea acceptable is being applied. Do you really think they're going to start enforcing the laws and start deporting the current population of illegals.. now? Hardly.

So, while they haven't received official permission to stay (yet), unofficially, they may as well have it.

This is another false claim. The proposed scheme has been announced but not yet finalised - It is false to say "they've been granted permission to stay" and to claim with certainty that 20,000 have been granted this. We dont know for certain how many will be given regularisation but the claims that it has happened and that 20,000 have been given it are false.

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Pesky highly paid foreigners coming over here and adding value to our society.

I swear there's a willful ignorance going on, just to score points. The last few pages, hell the whole thread, is full of posts saying that they don't have a problem with skilled labor coming into Ireland. Especially those who are filling a demand.

Even the quoted piece you referred to, spoke of jobs with low wages... and you object by referring to jobs with reasonably decent wages.

The issue is not about skilled/educated workers with plenty of job options available to them. jeez.

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

This is another false claim. The scheme has been announced - It is false to say "they've been granted permission to stay" and to claim with certainty that 20,000 have been granted this. We dont know for certain how many will be given regularisation but the claims that it has happened and that 20,000 have been given it are false.

Did you even read what I wrote? Bloody hell. I said it wasn't official.

Consider the context of what I responded to, and my actual post. Not the idea in your head that you want to object to.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Want to give us a link?

No, I've given the link a few times before, in fact I think I may have even given you the link in a direct reply. It's very easy to find. You don't have any interest in the figures though, you continually try and throw this topic off with relentless pointless posts.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote? Bloody hell. I said it wasn't official.

Consider the context of what I responded to, and my actual post. Not the idea in your head that you want to object to.

I know exactly what you wrote.

The continuous claims here that 20,000 have been regularised are false and we dont even know how many will be regularised. There have been differing estimates of 17,000, 20,000 and 30,000.

enricoh

Annasopra wrote: »

I know exactly what you wrote.

The continuous claims here that 20,000 have been regularised are false and we dont even know how many will be regularised. There have been differing estimates of 17,000, 20,000 and 30,000.

So 17k -30k estimated. If regularised are they allowed repatriate their family over here anyone know?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The issue is not about skilled/educated workers with plenty of job options available to them. jeez.

What is the issue then?

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

I know exactly what you wrote.

You plucked one sentence out of a paragraph, without consideration of the overall short post. You sought to argue a point that wasn't made.

The continuous claims here that 20,000 have been regularised are false and we dont even know how many will be regularised. There have been differing estimates of 17,000, 20,000 and 30,000.

The original estimate released was for 17k. Later reports suggested that this was inaccurate, and the figures could be much higher.

Now... these continuous claims... nope. An exaggeration. A few posters have made such comments, and it hadn't made much impression on the thread, at least, not until you started objecting to it.

In any case, they're opinions. No different from yours. Both guesswork. As things stand, these people are still illegal and should be deported the moment they are detected. However, considering the lack of response by the Gardai and the Public service regarding these illegals whenever they're found, it can be assumed that there is little desire to deport them. As such.. it's reasonable to believe that they've been given leeway to stay... as illegals... until such a time as the bill is passed, whereupon, the majority will be regularised.

Now.. if you have any details that suggest that they won't be...?

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

So 17k -30k estimated. If regularised are they allowed repatriate their family over here anyone know?

Interesting question, not sure but I assume once given citizenship they can then apply for family re-unifications which will push the numbers higher again.

Justin Credible Darts

exactly, what is to stop those 30k to bring in their partner and kids, and it could be over 100k more crippling the financial strain.

but i better be careful, someone might call this racist.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

exactly, what is to stop those 30k to bring in their partner and kids, and it could be over 100k more crippling the financial strain.

Firstly, there is no definite figure, so no need to presume 30K.
Second, no reason to assume they will bring family, some may, some may not.
Third, what financial strain?

Swindled

Deleted User wrote: »

The issue is not about skilled/educated workers with plenty of job options

The notion that there are not enough skilled/educated Irish people in Ireland is also bunkum. The notion for example that not enough Irish young people are intelligent and capable of being educated as Doctors or Nurses to meet demand in Ireland is rubbish. Also the bleeding hearts seem to have no qualms about taking Doctors and Nurses away from third world countries that badly need their own.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Firstly, there is no definite figure, so no need to presume 30K.

17,000 is the official government figure of illegal immigrants in this country. The Government's mealy mouthed description of them being "undocumented" for a nice change accurately describes one part of the problem, they're largely undocumented. So if they claim to have documented 17,000 of a demographic that almost by definition stay under the radar it's pretty much a given that the actual figure is higher. By how much is yet to be seen.

Second, no reason to assume they will bring family, some may, some may not.
Third, what financial strain?

From that Indo article linked earlier.
In Britain, there is a very big debate about immigration. Many British people are concerned about their country's ability to absorb such a large number, to "manage" migration properly, as Mr Varadkar might put it.

The debate is so big that even the Labour party at the last general election promised measures to curb immigration.

Here, there is almost no debate about immigration whatever. In Ireland, any party expressing the sort of concern expressed by the British Labour party would be instantaneously condemned as 'racist' and that would be the end of the matter.

This is incredibly unhealthy. If immigration is putting pressure on our housing stock, on rental property and prices, on school places and hospital places, then we ought to know about it because it is adversely affecting Irish-born people.

A political system that won't even contemplate this possibility, that won't ask the questions, that doesn't even know what questions to ask, is quite literally delinquent in its duties.

We currently have a long standing housing crisis and never mind even asking the question about how immigration may impact this we have another minister trying to push through a replacement for DP which will put immigrants on the fast track to social housing. He's been talking about monthly timeframes, when Irish people can be on that list for years. That is beyond unbelievable and five years on from that article it's still not being debated and it's still not being questioned.

Swindled

Swindled wrote: »

The notion that there are not enough skilled/educated Irish people in Ireland is also bunkum.

It depends on how you look at it. Many Irish people, especially the young (fresh graduates) emmigrate which provides something of a brain drain, especially for certain industries. I know four Irish women, who are all qualified nurses, and none of them stayed in Ireland after graduation. They all went to Oz, the US, and finally ended up in UAE. Great money apparently. One has since returned, but she's saying herself that she'll probably leave again due to the work conditions here.

Yes, Ireland is a pretty damn good country, all things considered... but there's also a lot of negatives, which are driving people elsewhere. In turn, there's demand for foreign skilled workers.

Now, if the government cared more about Irish people then I suspect we might see less of a need for foreign workers.

The notion for example that not enough Irish young people are intelligent and capable of being educated as Doctors or Nurses to meet demand in Ireland is rubbish.

I doubt it's to do with the potential of Irish people, and more to do with the real practicalities involved.

Oh, I get your point.. but.. in the area of Doctors/Nurses, from the little i know from conversations with others who work in the area, there is a shortage of qualified people.

Also the bleeding hearts seem to have no qualms about taking Doctors and Nurses away from third world countries that badly need their own.

That's certainly true.. but then, they don't really care what happens in those countries. They only care about "helping" others. It doesn't matter that a brain drain from those countries will ensure that they're even more unlikely to develop properly, or instigate social change.

enricoh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting question, not sure but I assume once given citizenship they can then apply for family re-unifications which will push the numbers higher again.

I assume the majority of these undocumented here are working minimum wage (at best!).
So once they get regularised they have access to social welfare and social housing if need be. If family reunification happens these would be miles better off on the dole and social housing.

Maybe their employer's will double their wages though and it'll all be grand! Either that or they'll just get a new arrived illegal worker in. I know what my money is on!