What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Yellow_Fern

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Originally Posted by biko View Post
Muslims in France are pushing to have sharia law in their small cities.
This is multiculturalism.
https://www.facebook.com/alarabiya.e...1396273842243/

No, that's just democratic will.

What the hell are you talking about? No one is saying it is being forced. Just because its democratic doesnt mean its not of concern. Its abhorrent and should be resisted

Eric Cartman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think a lot of our culture is awesome. But i think its become more awesome with diversity.

I would like to ask how people think our culture is suffering from diversity?

Can you give me the positives of diversity though ? Like everyone fights against the negatives , but beyond food and arts/music, there doesnt seem to be a lot of people espoucing positive attributes ‘multiculturalism’ brings.

Wibbs, I admire your patience to keep posting to someone who repeatedly ignores the content of your posts. You're a Saint.

Tony EH

Slowyourrole wrote: »

There wasn't a native culture, but there was a culture from those who had settled/conquered the place before. And it was one that the Irish didn't fit in to.

Point missed again

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Sounds like you are arguing in favour of ghettos.

If that's what you gleaned from my post, the you're not even reading what's being written, so there's zero point in even bothering with you.

silverharp

here is the kind of nonsense I dont want hearing here in the future not to mention he sounds like a racist

https://twitter.com/larmourandrew1/status/1276914811364937735

Rockbeast2

silverharp wrote: »

here is the kind of nonsense I dont want hearing here in the future not to mention he sounds like a racist

It's a sad state of affairs when he isn't laughed out of there.

The hatred and venom in his voice as he spits out "white" is unreal.

Often these fixations are a manifestation of an underlying psychological issue. Dollars to donuts Humza has one.

Tony EH

Bemoaning that Scotland is mostly white.

That's like looking at the ocean and complaining that it's full of water.

sabat

I'd love to hear that list of Scottish post-holders filtered by religious denomination rather than skin colour-even now it would uncomfortably biased against Catholics.

Slowyourrole

Tony EH wrote: »

Point missed again

Point disagreed with, not missed.

Tony EH wrote: »

If that's what you gleaned from my post, the you're not even reading what's being written, so there's zero point in even bothering with you.

If you could stick to a position and not change it based on how it suits you best it might help you in the future.

Wibbs

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Would you consider those "enclaves"?

Not yet. If numbers grow they will be, or do you want me to start listing ethnic enclaves in the major cities of nearly every urban centre in the multicultural nations in Western Europe?

The problem is that the nationalistic anti multiculturalism movement doesn't differentiate between good and bad change.

And again, and as usual with the multicultural mindset, pint blank refuse to acknowledge history and basic human nature played out over thousands of years. Yep, that's all magically going to change overnight, or ever. Then again the same mindset is usually dead set against the idea of nations and borders and again ignores all of human history. But that'll change overnight too eh?

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the liberal mind. Foremost their optimism. The conservative mind is more rigid and less plastic. However that optimism all to often drifts into naivete and a blanket refusal to see the bloody obvious. In that the pros and antis can be cheeks of the same arse.

1) It's not always about what we need economically.

Actually it usually is. Or at least that's the foundation of how most things operate in a society. We certainly don't need to import a recession or an underclass. We're full up thanks.

2) What's your point? They came from privileged positions so they had it easier.

My point, should you care to actually respond to one, is that you stated:

You. Earlier. wrote:

You can't accept people in, throw them in poverty and blame their culture when they don't integrate straight away. You can't put someone in a ghetto in Paris and then complain when they don't act like someone living in a house in a leafy part of the country.

For a start I'm against accepting people in if they are not going to be contributors to the society. Secondly nobody is "throwing" anyone into poverty. Certainly not in Ireland with one of the most accommodating social welfare systems in the world. My point is that the "privileged" as you term them, I call them contributors, are wanted and add to the nation and there's no colour bar there.

3) You're assuming that was organic due to a natural tendency to congregate rather than out of financial and other necessity.

Again wantonly ignoring and denying the facts of cultural demographics throughout history(and NB I pointed out economics as one factor). Pick any multicultural city with decent sized populations of minorities and lo and behold you'll find a Chinese area, a Jewish area, a Russian area, an Italian area, an Arabic area, a Black area, an Irish area etc. Places where those communities are notably higher than background populations. They cross economic barriers too. You can find less well off areas of Chinatowns as well as better off, but they're still Chinatowns.

And the ones who do get in? Do you not believe they should change to local customs?

When in Rome*. I also believe that no matter what the country. If you go to Saudi Arabia you fit in or you fcuk off. You don't bitch and moan that you can't find an Irish bar on every corner or there isn't enough Christianity and European thinking going on. It's their country and culture and their rules, you're a guest. It takes a neck as hard as a jockey's bollocks to rock up to a country, especially as a non legal migrant, and start lecturing the locals about how wrong their culture is and/or it should be more like the place you left.

That's because it's not a simple concept. You claim not to like simple views yet you look for simple answers like "exotic cafes".

I asked you and others about positives and I got nada back beyond vague notions of diversity is of course good and yep exotic cafes. Hence my use of the term.

Again, you struggle with the concept of democracy. If more extremist Muslims ever become a majority in Ireland, why wouldn't they choose it's direction? You seem to be as afraid of this replacement nonsense as the people who responded to Wibbs picture.

What picture? I have debunked the replacement notion in this thread and elsewhere.

There's many in Ireland's Catholic community that would like to see abortion and gay marriage banned. And they are the more culturally traditional ones.

But according to you if they or similar grew in numbers because of multiculturalism and brought back the bad old days that would be grand, cos democracy.

If we had remained stuck in our old ways instead of broadening our horizons and evolving our culture, most of us would be like them.

Eh, all of which we did before we had any migrant population. Maybe like Iloveyourvibes you're too young to remember, or just buy into this diversity changed us because it has to, but the fire of Old Catholic Ireland was dying down not long after Pope John Paul George and Ringo held his Irish gigs in the late 70's, by the mid 80's it was glowing embers and by the 90's was largely ash. Divorce and contraception Catholic style was gone by the early 90's, film censorship similarly, we could even buy Penthouse and Playboy after 94, :eek: and homosexuality was decriminalised in 93 and we didn't need a multicultural Dublin or Cork to do it.

About the only two holdovers from old Ireland that we changed since the increase of migration in the late 90's were Equality in marriage and Abortion and that was feck all to do with the newly minted Irish. Take Nigeria as one source nation. Pretty much zero rights for LGBT people. And given Nigerian Irish make up what under 20,000 voters? Can't see they swung those results either way.






*oddly enough Rome was one of the vanishingly few examples of a multicultural city that didn't have enclaves as such. Rich lived pretty close to poor and different faiths and ethnicities lived cheek by jowl for the most part. Then again it was an empire and extremely "right wing" by today's standards and dissension from the Roman ideal didn't last long.

ExMachina1000

silverharp wrote: »

here is the kind of nonsense I dont want hearing here in the future not to mention he sounds like a racist

https://twitter.com/larmourandrew1/status/1276914811364937735

This is exactly what is spreading around the world. White people in their own countries are being portrayed as racist and must allow outsiders to come and take over positions of power under the banner of diversity. Immigration is one way. All into the west.

The wolf is at the door

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Wibbs, I admire your patience to keep posting to someone who repeatedly ignores the content of your posts. You're a Saint.

Not really K, I'm just tired of this multiculturalism narrative getting too much of a free ride and little by way of discussion or refutation of most of its vague tenets. The only voices that tend to be heard on the "other side" are usually eejits going on about replacement or they took our jobs, or outright racists and those eejits muddy the waters for anyone with genuine concerns backed up by the experiences of other nations that try to run this politic. Though maybe some of this eejits are allowed get through to bolster the multiculturalist position...

DelaneyIn

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

It will not Work.
Because of this nonsense.
https://postimg.cc/Z9pZWnkN

What are they being taught in school? She thinks Saint Patrick kicked out all the native Africans and replaced them with white people?

Absurd line of thinking. That people liked and retweeted that nonsense is even more worrying.

statesaver

silverharp wrote: »

here is the kind of nonsense I dont want hearing here in the future not to mention he sounds like a racist

https://twitter.com/larmourandrew1/status/1276914811364937735

He is a racist.

joe40

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really K, I'm just tired of this multiculturalism narrative getting too much of a free ride and little by way of discussion or refutation of most of its vague tenets. The only voices that tend to be heard on the "other side" are usually eejits going on about replacement or they took our jobs, or outright racists and those eejits muddy the waters for anyone with genuine concerns backed up by the experiences of other nations that try to run this politic. Though maybe some of this eejits are allowed get through to bolster the multiculturalist position...

I'm not fully onboard with all your views and would be a bit more optimistic with multi culturalism as it is developing in Ireland, maybe optimism trumping realism, but we'll see.

But that is a great post, and a position I can respect.

For me there are two issues. How our immigration laws and asylum provision develop going forward is one issue.
The other is building the best possible society for Ireland as it stands, which is multi cultural to a certain extent.

Ultimately a stable society where everyone feels that they are treated fairly, or at least most people, is a benefit for everyone.

Tony EH

Slowyourrole wrote: »

If you could stick to a position and not change it based on how it suits you best it might help you in the future.

:rolleyes: Yep, you're not even trying to read the posts.

Bye bye.

corks finest

TBH it's not working amongst working class/ ordinary folk, especially those who come here and won't integrate, we are going to see major problems akin to Britain in the future, even though most Irish are middle of the road ref new Irish, poles and other East Europeans have mixed well, African/ Muslims not so, maybe it'll get better quicker that I think who knows

corks finest

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they being taught in school? She thinks Saint Patrick kicked out all the native Africans and replaced them with white people?

Absurd line of thinking. That people liked and retweeted that nonsense is even more worrying.

????? WTF is that all about,joke obviously?

corks finest

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they being taught in school? She thinks Saint Patrick kicked out all the native Africans and replaced them with white people?

Absurd line of thinking. That people liked and retweeted that nonsense is even more worrying.

????? WTF is that all about,joke obviously?

Hamachi

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really K, I'm just tired of this multiculturalism narrative getting too much of a free ride and little by way of discussion or refutation of most of its vague tenets. The only voices that tend to be heard on the "other side" are usually eejits going on about replacement or they took our jobs, or outright racists and those eejits muddy the waters for anyone with genuine concerns backed up by the experiences of other nations that try to run this politic. Though maybe some of this eejits are allowed get through to bolster the multiculturalist position...

Wibbs, you should really consider getting involved in political life. This country is crying out for somebody with your intellect and clear thinking. You eloquently express the thought processes of very many people, who are silenced today by a cacophony of idiots itching to brand them as extremists.

Obviously, you would be like a dove amongst a nest of vipers, but it’s clear that you would be of immense value to the country.

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not fully onboard with all your views and would be a bit more optimistic with multi culturalism as it is developing in Ireland, maybe optimism trumping realism, but we'll see.

But that is a great post, and a position I can respect.

For me there are two issues. How our immigration laws and asylum provision develop going forward is one issue.
The other is building the best possible society for Ireland as it stands, which is multi cultural to a certain extent.

Ultimately a stable society where everyone feels that they are treated fairly, or at least most people, is a benefit for everyone.

I'd agree with you, for the most part. Those who are here, aren't going anywhere. It's the case that we need to develop a working multicultural society with the population as it currently stands, along with those who come in through the more traditional immigration policies.

I've traveled a lot outside of Europe/US over the last decade and a half. Virtually all stable countries with a decent lifestyle for it's people, have countries with a dominant culture as a primary, with some encouragement of other cultural groups to add to the mix. It's the case of fairness, in that people can practice their cultural/religious in the privacy of their own homes, with some limited acceptance in public spaces, but they're not a completely equal societies. At least, not the way western activists, or supporters of multiculturalism would want.

The problem is that there are too many conflicting cultures out there. For example (and there are others), For all the desire to not talk about Islam, it is a religion/culture with very different values than those promoted in the west... which means at some point, conflict will arise. I'm not going to get into a religious discussion, but Islam is one of the few remaining religions with a strong core set of believers who, genuinely believe that their way of life should be dominant. That means, as populations of Muslims, grow in the West, they will seek rights and benefits which conform to the religious/cultural beliefs they hold. In Islamic countries, other religions are tolerated as long as they're small and under control. Western countries like Ireland should adopt a similar strategy in regards to foreign cultures/religions which do have conflicting values and concerns. (at the moment, it's more about changing or giving up our values to compensate the migrants)

There's also the aspect of having a strong national identity. It's incredibly important to have pride and respect for your own country's history, culture etc.. but the move has been to link nationalism with the far right. It's promoted as a negative to take pride in the accomplishments of both your own country, and your race. ie. white people. That needs to stop... because it's not matched abroad with other nationalities.

Europe and Ireland need to deal with it's migrants from a position of strength. Economically and socially. Otherwise, people will seek to establish their own cultural beliefs here, because they'll feel that they're superior. If we are so unwilling to protect our own values and history, why should foreigners respect us? That's a very common perspective about Europe these days in Asia. That we're weak, and deserving of what's happening.

Biafranlivemat

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they being taught in school? She thinks Saint Patrick kicked out all the native Africans and replaced them with white people?

Absurd line of thinking. That people liked and retweeted that nonsense is even more worrying.

The worst thing about that poster is. She lives in Ireland. Graduated in 2019.
With a “B. Sc Medicinal Science”
https://twitter.com/JessicaOkeke_/status/1188777612153446404

jmreire

silverharp wrote: »

here is the kind of nonsense I dont want hearing here in the future not to mention he sounds like a racist

https://twitter.com/larmourandrew1/status/1276914811364937735

I take it from his name that he is Muslim, and I wonder what would happen if a non- Muslim were to go on national TV in an Islamic Country, and say exactly the same thing's.....IE: "The Head of the Police, is a Muslim. The Head of the Council is a Muslim. The Head of the Hospital is a Muslim" etc........:cool: I'd say his departure from that Country would be very quick.

Clarence Boddiker

I'm sick of all the white people in Ireland I wish there were more of my own so I can feel at home.

https://twitter.com/Repealist_/status/1276526792149553153

Better Than Christ

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I'm sick of all the white people in Ireland I wish there were more of my own so I can feel at home.

https://twitter.com/Repealist_/status/1276526792149553153

I'm guessing that tweet was picked up by some far-right site. Is that where you found it? Because there are literally hundreds of comments from racist men underneath, telling her to 'go home'.

Sounds more like she just wishes that the Indian diaspora made itself a bit more visible, and was more organised, a bit like the Irish in the UK, America or Australia. Not sure why you (and all the other racists who commented underneath it) find that so offensive.

Biafranlivemat

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I'm sick of all the white people in Ireland I wish there were more of my own so I can feel at home.

https://twitter.com/Repealist_/status/1276526792149553153

Why is she living in a place, that makes her miserable.
Serious. I Don t understand what is wrong with her.
If she wants to feel "at home" then go home.

Better Than Christ

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I'm guessing that tweet was picked up by some far-right site. Is that where you found it? Because there are literally hundreds of comments from racist men underneath, telling her to 'go home'.

Sounds more like she just wishes that the Indian diaspora made itself a bit more visible, and was more organised, a bit like the Irish in the UK, America or Australia. Not sure why you (and all the other racists who commented underneath it) find that so offensive.

Someone telling her to go home (because of what she wrote) doesn't make that person a racist. My first reaction when reading her post was that she should indeed be at home, or picked a country with a much larger population of SE Asians.

You gave your own interpretation of what she meant, but dismissed other peoples out of hand, instead labeling them all (including the poster here) a racist.

Love your tolerant and empathetic attitude towards others... better than Christ indeed. :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I'm sick of all the white people in Ireland I wish there were more of my own so I can feel at home.

That isn't what she is saying. In fact she isn't talking about White people at all.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone telling her to go home (because of what she wrote) doesn't make that person a racist.

Yes it does. He is a doctor here and she is a lovely person i have met her. You should be more grateful.

ILoveYourVibes

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Why is she living in a place, that makes her miserable.
Serious. I Don t understand what is wrong with her.
If she wants to feel "at home" then go home.

Why are people like you deliberately going out of your way to make her miserable?

She was physically attacked on the street a few months ago by racists. She works in a hospital and was on her way home.