What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Fandymo

Bobblehats wrote: »

There is only the video of a load of yoof sprinting through the crowds to go by. Bypassing the no joggers on the lawn rule along a cocophany of noise; shattering the illusion of the park’s formerly tranquil ideal

and with the weather you could well be somewhere else? One red haired lad looks a bit dazed and out of place, in that climate. like a “true irishman” abroad! But otherwise not a bother..

The video isn’t proof. Coz like, ya know, wrongthink.

If they’d said Blanch/Sherrif St gang there’d be no Dublin live or Journal (both august publications) links or warnings.

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

Any proof it was an African gang? Only video I saw had a mixture of white and black youths running around together.

Just like MLK wanted

TomTomTim

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Just because there was no mention of race in the article does not equate to it being a lie .

The video I have seen on twitter was clearly chaps from warmer climates, involved.

We'll have some new standard imposed on us yet. We'll need to prove with genetic testing that the person in question is African first, secondly we'll need to prove that all of the rest of them are African too via the same means. If even one of them is a native we won't be allowed to say "African gang", because just one person don't match the descriptor. It must be tough to be a part of an ideology that requires so much effort to try and maintain its legitimacy.

Lemon Davis lll

MarkEadie wrote: »

A lot of lads of colour are from colder climates no?

Bloody Inuits running amok again

ArthurDayne

Sand wrote: »

But it is you who is taking a very narrow narrative and denying complex analysis. You're starting from the very simplistic belief that there cannot be any distinction drawn between the behavior of indigenous and non-indigenous people. You're wholly rejecting the complexity that when we do look at the behavior of non-indigenous enclaves we can and do see very disturbing trends.

The reality is attacks on indigenous peoples by non-indigenous enclaves are inevitable in the context of mass migration. These attacks are only possible because government policy created those enclaves by enabling mass migration. They could have been entirely prevented had government chosen a better policy.



You could and it would indicate that you've no objection to drawing broad conclusions about groups of people. You just choose not to do so when it comes to (non-white) ethnic groups because it doesn't suit your specific narrative.

And you would face absolutely no censure or retaliation from power were you to draw negative conclusions about men as a group. But you would were you to do so about non-white ethnic groups.



It is your narrative that is simplistic and ignores the reality.

Apologies, the weather has been too good recently for Boards!

Anyway, I don’t think that’s an entirely accurate interpretation of my posts — I haven’t put forward any argument that you can’t draw distinctions between cultures or point out elements of those cultures which are bad (in fact, I have even acknowledged the distinctions and pointed out personal experience when living in Paris). But we are not talking about mere distinctions here — the “clash of cultures” which the other poster referred to (if we are speaking honestly) is not predicated on simply being willing to call out the bad elements of other cultures, or to say that some of those elements are incompatible with Irish culture — it’s about saying that those elements are such that they render the very co-existence of the entire culture (and therefore its people) in the same society as unworkable.

In that vein — the argument seems to unavoidably become a sledgehammer of saying that an entire people are incompatible with us and it’s better to either keep them out or make them adhere to a uniform assimilated identity. Both options seem aspirational to me — in that the first seems an unrealistic reversal of millennia of humans moving, while the second would be hard to police and enforce in any society where personal liberty is placed in a [relatively] prominent position. I think a workable future lies somewhere in the in-between, but the “clash of cultures” school of thought is not an “in-between” — it is by nature a wholesale rejection of nuance and an acceptance of a generalised world view. And as I’ve said, it is often the case that those who accept this generalisation get rather worked up when the so-called “Left” makes generalisations about straight, white men or indeed just men in general (generalisations which I don’t agree with). In that world view, it becomes absolutely OK to hold the generalised opinion that there is a rape culture among Muslim migrants — but entirely unacceptable to generalise men.

That is why I find the narrative narrow, and therefore simplistic. It ignores all the other phenomena, all the other facets — it ignores the problem among men, it ignores the issue of socioeconomic deprivation, it ignores all the full spectrum of things that lead to bad things happening in society — and simply pins it on migrants and their descendants. It is a form of scapegoatism which is damaging our ability to cope with the reality of a globalised world, and it is holding us back from building a more sustainable future.

In the end, your argument simply boils down to: multiculturalism causes bad things to happen and therefore it must be stopped and this will mean the bad things caused by multiculturalism will no longer happen and these bad things will absolutely not be replaced by other bad (or perhaps worse) things in our drive to prevent multiculturalism. I just don’t think your vision, even if it were absolutely righteous, is ever going to come to pass. I can see no path to the sustainable future of mankind that does not involve us accepting multiculturalism, warts and all, and being in what may well be a perpetual struggle to make the best of it — rather than pretending that it can vanish from the Earth in societies that value personal freedom.

Sand wrote: »

Sexual violence has been recognized by the U.N. as a trend in conflicts between groups, particularly genocidal conflicts. Most infamously in the Yugoslav conflicts where combatants would humiliate and rape women from opposing ethnic groups. When one looks at the ongoing rape of English girls by non-indigenous gangs, a repeated factor is the perpetrators utter contempt for the English motivating the targeting of English girls. They did not target women from within their own ethnic groups. Their own ethnic groups seem to widely tolerate their behaviour so long as it was directed outwards to the English. So the targeting of indigenous women by non-indigenous ethnic groups for humiliation and sexual violence has different motivations that simply are not interchangeable with crimes within the indigenous population itself.

I want to make sure that we are being crystal clear here. Are you making the point that wartime rape perpetrated against the “enemy” population is analogous to rape carried out by migrants? So...what drives white “indigenous” men to rape other women (white or otherwise) in their own countries? Is that explained by something else entirely?

Cordell

I personally think it's reasonable to compare wartime raping and muslim grooming gangs, lack of fear of consequences and disregarding the victims are present in both cases and working to lower the threshold that separates humans from animals.

enricoh

Denmark is to start deporting asylum seekers, surely a delegation from some of the various quangos here could visit them before deportation and convince them to try Ireland next time round!
Sod it, just send a few navy boats over n load up!

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOcUyuEXB-q8zLY5O6vwwDgqFAgEKgwIACoFCAowhgIwkDgw0O8B?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

Justin Credible Darts

enricoh wrote: »

Denmark is to start deporting asylum seekers, surely a delegation from some of the various quangos here could visit them before deportation and convince them to try Ireland next time round!
Sod it, just send a few navy boats over n load up!

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOcUyuEXB-q8zLY5O6vwwDgqFAgEKgwIACoFCAowhgIwkDgw0O8B?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

did you see the second line

"Rights groups, UNHCR and EU criticise move, which some fear will have a domino effect and see other nations opt out of responsibilities"


why should any country have to offer anything.
Is denmark's first responsibility to their own people and affairs ?


As is the case here, Ireland priority should be its own population, Ireland is not responsible for the plight of others.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Denmark is to start deporting asylum seekers, surely a delegation from some of the various quangos here could visit them before deportation and convince them to try Ireland next time round!
Sod it, just send a few navy boats over n load up!

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOcUyuEXB-q8zLY5O6vwwDgqFAgEKgwIACoFCAowhgIwkDgw0O8B?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

Denmark with a left wing government starting to do the right thing. Fair play.

irishproduce

I picked up the story on FTimes.
Very interesting. Even left wing governments are taking a step back and looking at it and not having the answer.
The rights groups have an issue with it. Why? The offshore processing centre can be audited and ensure everyone gets a fair shake.
In other parts of the story it states Denmark is encouraging Syrians to return home. Fair enough. Im assuming it's safe to do so and it's reasonable to assume that international protection comes with the proviso that if it becomes safe to return home then help will be offered to do that? Obligations and humanitarian assistance being met by saving the person's when in desperate need.
They are dismantling ghettos as well to stop that rot setting in. All sounds fair enough.

Wish the NGOs here would be told to prepare for this in the future. It's only fair

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Denmark with a left wing government starting to do the right thing. Fair play.

Some of our liberal talking heads will have to head on over to Denmark and give them a proper scolding.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just like MLK wanted

To be honest, these gangs being a mix of races is a positive in some sense. Obviously far better if there were no gangs in the first place though.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Denmark with a left wing government starting to do the right thing. Fair play.

Denmark has always been more 'right-wing' with regards to immigration. Only very very recently ie in the last 10 years was there a slight switch, which has quickly seen to be a mistake and has now switched back to the norm.

irishproduce

irishproduce wrote: »

I picked up the story on FTimes.
Very interesting. Even left wing governments are taking a step back and looking at it and not having the answer.
The rights groups have an issue with it. Why? The offshore processing centre can be audited and ensure everyone gets a fair shake.
In other parts of the story it states Denmark is encouraging Syrians to return home. Fair enough. Im assuming it's safe to do so and it's reasonable to assume that international protection comes with the proviso that if it becomes safe to return home then help will be offered to do that? Obligations and humanitarian assistance being met by saving the person's when in desperate need.
They are dismantling ghettos as well to stop that rot setting in. All sounds fair enough.

Wish the NGOs here would be told to prepare for this in the future. It's only fair

Sending the Syrians back to Syria is terrible policy, which has resulted from the even worse policy of taking too many refugees, and immigrants, in too short space a time. The whole mess that Denmark finds itself in results from the later, and is exactly why I'd be more 'right-wing' when it comes to immigration.

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

Sending the Syrians back to Syria is terrible policy, .

Why is it a terrible policy? Seems reasonable to me. Refugees should be returned.

Now, admittedly, I think Denmark should have waited another 6 months or so, until things improved in Syria, but I suspect they know that they won't be able to implement the deportations for a long time yet. They've made it harder for themselves since they've given the refugees grounds to protest. All the same, they'd be facing resistance regardless, and more refugees seeking to arrive, so perhaps it makes sense to stand up against the refugee situation now, and gauge what kind of support they have among their own people.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it a terrible policy? Seems reasonable to me. Refugees should be returned.

Now, admittedly, I think Denmark should have waited another 6 months or so, until things improved in Syria, but I suspect they know that they won't be able to implement the deportations for a long time yet. They've made it harder for themselves since they've given the refugees grounds to protest. All the same, they'd be facing resistance regardless, and more refugees seeking to arrive, so perhaps it makes sense to stand up against the refugee situation now, and gauge what kind of support they have among their own people.

Whatever about Syrian asylum seekers / refugees, the Denmark plan will definitely weed out the genuine case's from the bogus economic chancers.

zom

Hhhhh wrote: »

Sending the Syrians back to Syria is terrible policy

Sure life in Syria is not a piece of cake compare what they have in Denmark but you may say the same about 90% of people living in Africa, Asia or South America. Dreaming about them all being safely hosted in Europe is serous pipe dream.
https://www.travelriskmap.com/#/planner/map/security

Bobblehats

Hhhhh wrote: »

To be honest, these gangs being a mix of races is a positive in some sense. Obviously far better if there were no gangs in the first place though.

Don’t see it myself?! Skangers with added race angle is a disaster in the making, resulting in some particularly vindictive characters against a society they will feel rejected them I can imagine we will have our share of Michael Showers or Stephen French type characters looking to assert themselves

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is it a terrible policy? Seems reasonable to me. Refugees should be returned.

Now, admittedly, I think Denmark should have waited another 6 months or so, until things improved in Syria, but I suspect they know that they won't be able to implement the deportations for a long time yet. They've made it harder for themselves since they've given the refugees grounds to protest. All the same, they'd be facing resistance regardless, and more refugees seeking to arrive, so perhaps it makes sense to stand up against the refugee situation now, and gauge what kind of support they have among their own people.

Because some of these people have been here 7 years, 8 years. Imagine spending your whole teenage years in Denmark, a first world nation, only to hit adulthood and find yourself being sent back to a country you don't even really know. A better policy would've been to take a smaller number of people to permanently settle.

zom

zom wrote: »

Sure life in Syria is not a piece of cake compare what they have in Denmark but you may say the same about 90% of people living in Africa, Asia or South America. Dreaming about them all being safely hosted in Europe is serous pipe dream.
https://www.travelriskmap.com/#/planner/map/security

People fleeing Syria were legitimate refugees, not economic migrants. I also have not suggested they all be hosted, so no idea why you brought that. It is indeed a pipe dream.

kildare lad

Bobblehats wrote: »

Don’t see it myself?! Skangers with added race angle is a disaster in the making, resulting in some particularly vindictive characters against a society they will feel rejected them I can imagine we will have our share of Michael Showers or Stephen French type characters looking to assert themselves

You'd think their parents would have done a better job with some of their kids after arriving here from a 3rd world country . I'm still waiting to see or hear of gangs of Asian/ eastern European kids going around beating people and acting like thugs .

Cordell

Hhhhh wrote: »

Because some of these people have been here 7 years, 8 years. Imagine spending your whole teenage years in Denmark, a first world nation, only to hit adulthood and find yourself being sent back to a country you don't even really know. A better policy would've been to take a smaller number of people to permanently settle.

Let me try, see if I'm doing it right:
Yes, it's quite bad. You can blame your parents for having you with no clear residency status, and you can blame Denmark for not deporting you sooner, and you can do both from Syria.

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

Because some of these people have been here 7 years, 8 years. Imagine spending your whole teenage years in Denmark, a first world nation, only to hit adulthood and find yourself being sent back to a country you don't even really know. A better policy would've been to take a smaller number of people to permanently settle.

So what? They're refugees. Any acceptance of refugees should be temporary.. unless the country wishes to selectively invite them to stay permanently later.

I know foreign nationals who have studied in Ireland for 8-9 years.. should they be given the right to stay indefinitely? No. They shouldn't.. except if they follow the standard procedure for immigration later.

The same should be the policy for Asylum Seekers. When the situation that brings their lives under threat is considered to be ended, they should be told to leave, or apply as a normal immigrant, fully aware that their application may be denied if they don't meet the needs required for immigration.

Hamsterchops

Irish multicultural stats - I'm lost after 1 and 2.

1/ Irish
2/ British
3/
4/
5/

I'm guessing 3 = Chinese, but I'm not sure.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Irish multicultural stats - I'm lost after 1 and 2.

1/ Irish
2/ British
3/
4/
5/

I'm guessing 3 = Chinese, but I'm not sure.

Irish 82.2%, Irish travelers 0.7%, other white 9.5%, Asian 2.1%, black 1.4%, other 1.5%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)



https://www.cso.ie/en/csolatestnews/presspages/2018/census2016-non-irishnationalitieslivinginireland/

Justin Credible Darts

odd how you dont see chinese gangs involved in street crime
or indian gangs for that matter

despite asians making up more of the population than blacks

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

To be honest, these gangs being a mix of races is a positive in some sense.

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

They are criminals, they are scumbags, but at least they are a diverse group of scumbags. This is all the proof that you need that we can all get along :pac:

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

odd how you dont see chinese gangs involved in street crime

There are plenty of Chinese gangs operating in Ireland, and yes they have been involved in street violence.
Eastern European gangs are affiliated with organised crime gangs and dissident republican gangs in Ireland.
Just because you just read articles about black teenagers engaging in crime, doesn't mean there isn't plenty more.

Crime is everywhere, committed by all backgrounds and races.

AbusesToilets

TomTomTim wrote: »

They are criminals, they are scumbags, but at least they are a diverse group of scumbags. This is all the proof that you need that we can all get along :pac:

Michael Jackson was ahead of his time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUXAEzaC3Q