What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So, again, how do you think authorities know who lives here?

Passports are registered on entry to the country, and again when you leave. So, unless you're leaving the country by rowboat or yacht, then, the authorities will know how many people are in the country. (even then, manifests/itineraries are usually required for yachts)

So, the authorities would have a reasonably good idea of who and how many people are in the country, excepting those who enter illegally.

Heraclius wrote: »

If we lack infrastructure and services it is because we don't demand efficiency and delivery from our politicians. You can't blame immigration for that. It is possible to have a large number of immigrants and still have good services. I suspect Ireland could have zero net migration and still have inefficient services.

He didn't blame immigration for the declining state of services in Ireland. He said that immigration places greater strain on those services. Services that he would prefer to be available for Irish people.

You're intentionally missing the point. Greater immigration, especially from those who are low-skilled, places greater demands on state provided services, and also on the supports (financial) that the government provides. Spreading out limited resources, means less available for everyone else. We're not seeing Ireland economy booming, and growing at any significant rate. If anything, with the coming recession, and the debt taken during covid, we're likely to see a major shrinking of the economy, which means less revenue available to improve services... regardless of whether the politicians are capable of fixing the services.

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

Ok then. Try running our health service without immigrants.

We need to control the numbers coming in better. The levels are simply unsustainable. The equivalent of 3 Galway cities in 5 years is farcical.

Gradius

Heraclius wrote: »

We had very poor infrastructure and services before 2000 too and I don't think you can point to immigrants to blame for that. We had scarcely any motorways until around then for example.

Let's not mince words.

No matter the state of any social system from before a massive influx of people, it is now worse.

What you think and what information demonstrates are entirely at odds.

Note how all these "arguments" have the inevitable qualifier of " I believe..." and "I think..."

Never a bloody shred of evidence, or else they ask you to provide it for them and upon seeing it go straight back to "but I believe!" or if they're feeling optimum "I'm insulted!"

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We need to control the numbers coming in better. The levels are simply unsustainable. The equivalent of 3 Galway cities in 5 years is farcical.

Wait a moment. The argument will be made that you want all immigration to stop. :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Passports are registered on entry to the country, and again when you leave. So, unless you're leaving the country by rowboat or yacht, then, the authorities will know how many people are in the country. (even then, manifests/itineraries are usually required for yachts)

So, the authorities would have a reasonably good idea of who and how many people are in the country,

No.
Anyone can enter and are free to live and work here under EU regulations, there is noone.anywhere keeping any records of that.

Gradius

Annasopra wrote: »

Ok then. Try running our health service without immigrants.

Ah, the last bastion.

Sure we were all walking around like neantherthals before the sacred people arrived to save us from our own incompetence.

Sure jaysus, there were these mysterious things called "spar" and we didn't know what to do with them. Then the sacreds arrived and the machine launched into life.

A miracle, and nothing less.

Justin Credible Darts

Annasopra wrote: »

Ok then. Try running our health service without immigrants.

Enlighten me then, what percentages of immigrants are working legit and paying tax in the health service.


Astound me....although i suspect this wont be answered.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
Anyone can enter and are free to live and work here under EU regulations, there is noone.anywhere keeping any records of that.

You still need some form of identification when travelling within the EU, no? Identification when you get on a plane, on a ferry, etc...? Which will be registered and noted for the authorities.

This is pretty obvious, bubbly. Records are made.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You still need some form of identification when travelling within the EU, no? Identification when you get on a plane, on a ferry, etc...? Which will be registered and noted for the authorities.

This is pretty obvious, bubbly. Records are made.

No.
There are no official records anywhere that keep those statistics.
It doesn't happen.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
There are no official records anywhere that keep those statistics.
It doesn't happen.

so you admit then the immigration problem might be even worse since you claim there is no way to validate the numbers ?

Gradius

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

so you admit then the immigration problem might be even worse since you claim there is no way to validate the numbers ?

Mate, you're replying to someone stating that "no official records are kept anywhere".

Just leave it, wasting your time.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

so you admit then the immigration problem might be even worse since you claim there is no way to validate the numbers ?

I have always said that EU citizens are not recorded.
Posters on this thread have issues with non EU immigrants.
Of course we have non EU numbers.
What do you think?

Annasopra

Gradius wrote: »

Ah, the last bastion.

Sure we were all walking around like neantherthals before the sacred people arrived to save us from our own incompetence.

Sure jaysus, there were these mysterious things called "spar" and we didn't know what to do with them. Then the sacreds arrived and the machine launched into life.

A miracle, and nothing less.

You complain about our lack of services. You want to send all the immigrants home which would mean our health service would collapse. Your arguments are a joke.

Gradius

Gradius wrote: »

Mate, you're replying to someone stating that "no official records are kept anywhere".

Just leave it, wasting your time.

Do you want to link us to where official records are kept to everyone living in this country?
Thanks

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

What do you think?

I have already answered this multiples times, and even in the last half hour.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

No.
There are no official records anywhere that keep those statistics.
It doesn't happen.

So, when you book an airline ticket online, or when you're booking in at the airport, you never ever need to show your passport, or a form of photo ID? That'seems strange, since it's a requirement for ferries.

Again.. Bubbly, this is pretty obvious. Documentation is checked on boarding a plane or ferry.. and in most cases, those documents are scanned into a system.. A system that the authorities will have access to.

How do you think Interpol or other governmental police agencies track people within the EU? EU citizens can travel within Europe without a passport, but the airlines and others usually demand that photo ID is presented before you can board.

Justin Credible Darts

Annasopra wrote: »

You complain about our lack of services. You want to send all the immigrants home which would mean our health service would collapse. Your arguments are a joke.

can you please point out where he said this.
Can you also answer my question i asked you earlier

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, when you book an airline ticket online, or when you're booking in at the airport, you never ever need to show your passport, or a form of photo ID? That'seems strange, since it's a requirement for ferries.

Again.. Bubbly, this is pretty obvious. Documentation is checked on boarding a plane or ferry.. and in most cases, those documents are scanned into a system.. A system that the authorities will have access to.

How do you think Interpol or other governmental police agencies track people within the EU? EU citizens can travel within Europe without a passport, but the airlines and others usually demand that photo ID is presented before you can board.

And do think that there is a central system in Ireland that keep.records of everyone entering here on holidays? And then leaving?
What about EU citizens or UK citizens? Where do you think those statistics are kept?

The centre-right Les Republicains Party did well in French elections this week, with a harder message than Macron who has also proposed much tighter immigration laws.

Eventually Irish politicians are going to have to change tack, we are becoming more and more of an outlier in Europe with our refusal to implement proper immigration controls.

Gradius

Annasopra wrote: »

You complain about our lack of services. You want to send all the immigrants home which would mean our health service would collapse. Your arguments are a joke.

No, your reasoning is a joke. And because it's flying in the face of actual bonafide information, it makes you look like a clown into the bargain. Your doing, not mine.

Such spurious conman dribble!

Did you know that a sudden withdrawal of drugs can kill a person? Well now you do.

Here's your "reasoning" exemplified.

Guy gets hooked on heroine against his own will. Now he is dependent on heroine. And the drug dealers defence? "Let's see you survive without my heroine then, here, have more!"

Created the problem, then posits itself as the solution. Brilliant, absolute einstein-ery.

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

You complain about our lack of services. You want to send all the immigrants home which would mean our health service would collapse. Your arguments are a joke.

Um, can you quote him where he said he wanted all immigrants to be sent home?

Not you reading between the lines. Somehow I missed him saying what you claim.

Justin Credible Darts

bubblypop wrote: »

And do think that there is a central system in Ireland that keep.records of everyone entering here on holidays? And then leaving?
What about EU citizens or UK citizens? Where do you think those statistics are kept?

tell me, when someone is caught entering this country on a false passport, how do you think they were caught ?


astound me..

Heraclius

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The centre-right Les Republicains Party did well in French elections this week, with a harder message than Macron who has also proposed much tighter immigration laws.

Eventually Irish politicians are going to have to change tack, we are becoming more and more of an outlier in Europe with our refusal to implement proper immigration controls.

Just because a policy is popular does not make it morally right or even logical.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, can you quote him where he said he wanted all immigrants to be sent home?

Not you reading between the lines. Somehow I missed him saying what you claim.

wasting your time, I asked already ad they have avoided it,
not the first question they avoided either.

Stovepipe

Ok then. Try running our health service without immigrants.[/QUOTE]
Try running our health service without LEGAL immigrants with genuine qualifications.

Strumms

In 2021 our tax is spent thusly..

Social Protection: 23.3 billion

Health: 22.1 billion

Education: 8.9 billion

Justice: 3.0 billion

Agriculture: 1.8 billion

Debt Service/EU payments : 9.2 billion

Transport : 3.5 billion

Misc : 17.8 billion

So we want to run up higher numbers by facilitating a rapid population growth ?

Who pays for it ? Taxes will skyrocket....

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

And do think that there is a central system in Ireland that keep.records of everyone entering here on holidays? And then leaving?
What about EU citizens or UK citizens? Where do you think those statistics are kept?

Likely a range of hosted servers. You do understand how data can be recorded and stored in this digital age of ours?

You seem to think that this would be hard to do. It's not.

Justin Credible Darts

Strumms wrote: »

In 2021 our tax is spent thusly..

Social Protection: 23.3 billion

Health: 22.1 billion

Education: 8.9 billion

Justice: 3.0 billion

Agriculture: 1.8 billion

Debt Service/EU payments : 9.2 billion

Transport : 3.5 billion

Misc : 17.8 billion

So we want to run up higher numbers by facilitating a rapid population growth ?

Who pays for it ? Taxes will skyrocket....

wait til all them have to be housed, ( before the Irish obviously)

Strumms

Stovepipe wrote: »

Ok then. Try running our health service without immigrants.

Try running our health service without LEGAL immigrants with genuine qualifications.[/QUOTE]

Yep, all whom arrive to fill skills gaps and shortages in skills and qualified personnel ...earn, pay their way and contribute to the running and success of the state and its population. I’m all for that, i benefitted from it personally. A mutually beneficial arrangement.

Heraclius

Heraclius wrote: »

Just because a policy is popular does not make it morally right or even logical.

It is both morally right and logical in this instance. That's why the vast majority of countries in the world control it tightly.