What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well then you should leave.

That doesn't make any sense. It's the drunkard that's asked to leave, not the people around him who have no idea what he's going on about.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. It's the drunkard that's asked to leave, not the people around him who have no idea what he's going on about.

I soberly stand my ground.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

SO?

What you are posting suggests you are not open to debate but everything you say is based on emotion and not ideas.

Such as? Use quotes. (also you might want to check what "ideas" means)

I mean you keep saying laws papers don't matter. She doesn't FEEL Irish to you.

What are you smoking? Not once have I said any such a thing.

All you are saying is what she said made you ANGRY.

Again, I didn't say such a thing. You're projecting statements on to me, seeking to "trigger" me. Return to what I did say.. perhaps extend the very respect you want for this tweeter, to me.

You have no reason to be against her other than emotions. All you have is your emotional reaction to what she has said.

I am against the content of her tweet, and the message that it suggests about Ireland. I am not against her. It's you that has been making this about her, moving away from the content of her tweets.

Yellow_Fern

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Understand this. She is as Irish as you. If you dont accept this you are racist.

She is an Irish citizen.

Someone not being the same RACE as you doesn't give them less rights or make them A GUEST

There are many ways to be Irish. You can be british and Irish Indian and Irish.

She doesn't have to be any more grateful than you.

Ethnicity is not the same as nationality. I dont know anything about her nationality but clearly she identifies with India so there lies some or all of hers. So it is totally outrageous to claim 'she is as Irish any anyone' when she is clearly pining for India. Identity and ethnicity is a personal matter but she makes it clear in the tweets where hers lies. Ethnicity is not the same as nationality.

What annoys me about this tweeters posts is she criticises Ireland for having a 'white lens'. This is untrue. There is no white community or indeed brown community. There is just Irish, who happen to be mostly white but not always. I have more incommon with an Indian born in Ireland then some Ukrainian who never lived here.

Hamachi

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No its only one YOU could come up with.


She feels isolated. I feel it too sometimes.

She wishes she felt less isolated and more people could see her point of view.

She is looking for empathy.

Try spending less time on the internet making derogatory comments about Ireland, Irish people, and ‘whiteness’. This might make you feel a little less isolated...

Wibbs

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Understand this. She is as Irish as you. If you dont accept this you are racist.

Actually enough is enough and by god I've had enough of this nonsense. Much of this again comes from places like America, nations founded upon immigration from all over the place, so a passport makes you American, because well the actual natives are few in number.

And it's got eff all to do with "race". If a Russian came out with the same nonsense and you told me that she was as Irish as me just because she has the passport I'd laugh her out of it too and for the same reasons. Years ago I went out with a French woman, now if we'd ended up married and went over to France to live, I could no doubt have gotten French citizenship and a French passport. Would that make me French. Like hell it would. It certainly wouldn't make me so bloody presumptuous to complain that France wasn't automatically accepting of my Irishness, nor would I be so bloody presumptuous to suggest they change to accommodate me and my "lens". Hell, the very fact I'd be complaining about my Irish "lens" while apparently being "French" would pretty much prove I didn't actually consider myself to be French.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It isn't our Irishness that is the issue...its whiteness.

Native Irish people, the vast majority of people who live on this island and have lived here for thousands of years are White. A piece of paper doesn't change that fact. Again I would not rock up to Uganda and moronically twitter on to the locals that the problem wasn't being Ugandan, but Blackness. Indeed I am quite sure the usual hand wringers would label me a bloody racist for doing so, and they'd not be far wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is pointless. I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make.

I hear that. Actually it's all about feels, not logic. Hence it's so over the place as emotionals tend to be and why that kind of argument is resistant to logic and debate.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

This is pointless. I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make.

Notice how the discussion has been moved away from the content of her tweets, and instead, pushed to focusing on the person herself?

That way our opinions can be made to fit with being racist or unreasonable. It's a ploy... the poster doesn't have any actual point. It's simply about shutting down the discussion.

ThunbergsAreGo

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think its racist to say what i implied.

What is Racism - the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

"Whiteness is the problem"

Ireland is not America

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Such as? Use quotes. (also you might want to check what "ideas" means)



What are you smoking? Not once have I said any such a thing.



Again, I didn't say such a thing. You're projecting statements on to me, seeking to "trigger" me. Return to what I did say.. perhaps extend the very respect you want for this tweeter, to me.



I am against the content of her tweet, and the message that it suggests about Ireland. I am not against her. It's you that has been making this about her, moving away from the content of her tweets.

You keep on the one hand saying what she tweeted triggered you and what I say triggers you yet on the other saying you are not reacting emotionally.

It cannot be both.

You are emotionally triggered in your own words by being told that many people in Ireland see her and others through a certain lense. And that his isolates her. She wishes she had more support and a bigger community.

You find this triggering. Perhaps you don't want to admit Ireland's perceptions of people can be rather provincial. But sadly its often true.

It would be akin to an Irish person saying that the British see us through a very british lense.

Only there is a large Irish community in the UK to talk to about this.

Again, I didn't say such a thing. You're projecting statements on to me, seeking to "trigger" me. Return to what I did say.. perhaps extend the very respect you want for this tweeter, to me.

No you have said this yourself.

You called her an ungrateful racist little bitch. This is a DIRECT quote.

Deleted User wrote: »

Telling someone to go home for being an ungrateful little B*** isn't racist.

This is angry. Its a very emotional response.

You are NOT against any of her ideas. You called her a bitch.

I am not projecting statements onto you.

You don't like that the lense of Irish perception doesn't seem very accurate in how it sees different people.

Or you don't like people saying this.

I am unsure why you don't like that someone might think or say this. Or that they say it publicly. It would be interesting to find out.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Notice how the discussion has been moved away from the content of her tweets, and instead, pushed to focusing on the person herself?

That way our opinions can be made to fit with being racist or unreasonable. It's a ploy... the poster doesn't have any actual point. It's simply about shutting down the discussion.

Fair point actually. And fitting considering this site's main rule is to attack the post, not the poster, and we're being dragged into a conversation about the tweeter, not the tweet.

ILoveYourVibes

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

"Whiteness is the problem"

I disagree.

However I don't think its only white people who can be racist. But its not an issue relevant to this particular thing.


I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.

But that is my understanding of what she has said.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair point actually. And fitting considering this site's main rule is to attack the post, not the poster, and we're being dragged into a conversation about the tweeter, not the tweet.

I am sorry.


But klaz called her a bitch.

Originally Posted by Deleted User
Telling someone to go home for being an ungrateful little B*** isn't racist.

ILoveYourVibes

Lets talk about the content of her tweet.

Lets talk about that and not who wrote it or whether they have the right to free speech to write it.

Lets talk about the content.

She says

wish Ireland had more community for the South Asian diaspora

I’m really sick of having to look at my life through a white lens

with my Indian identity and culture in the retrospective -

a small sad part of me I’m encouraged to disavow

She wished there was a bigger community of Asians here.

She says Ireland looks and her through a white lens. And it encourages her to do so.

She says expressions of her culture are not encouraged and she is actively encouraged to GIVE UP that part of herself.


She is encouraged to disavow her indian indentity here.

Is this something that happens in Ireland?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am sorry.


But klaz called her a bitch.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.

Do you not think perhaps that Klaz has a point?

We've both made our lives in Asia and we can see how utterly absurd it would be for us to come out and publicly complain that there are too many ethnic Asians in Asian countries and there should be more white people.

It could genuinely be an Onion headline.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You keep on the one hand saying what she tweeted triggered you and what I say triggers you yet on the other saying you are not reacting emotionally.

Nope. You introduced the term "trigger" into the discussion.

And you're doing it again. Assigning comments to me that I didn't make.

Last warning. Stop it, or I will report you for it. It's incredibly dishonest.

You are emotionally triggered in your own words by being told that many people in Ireland see her and others through a certain lense. And that his isolates her. She wishes she had more support and a bigger community.

Words that you are unable to quote me as saying... does that suggest anything?

You find this triggering. Perhaps you don't want to admit Ireland's perceptions of people can be rather provincial. But sadly its often true.

I find it offensive that you tell me what I feel, without me saying what I feel.... I spoke about the tweet. So far, you have avoided talking about the tweet, instead focusing on my feelings and the race and the background of the Tweeter.

No you have said this yourself.

You called her an ungrateful racist little bitch. This is a DIRECT quote.

No I didn't. Read the quote. I didn't call her an ungrateful little bitch. I said that calling her one wouldn't be racist.

It would be rude and ignorant, but not racist.

I'm serious. Continue with this and I will report you because you're not posting in good faith. Get back to the content of the tweet and stop seeking to derail the conversation....

ILoveYourVibes

May I remind people that Ireland is 88% white.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

No I didn't. Read the quote. I didn't call her an ungrateful little bitch. I said that calling her one wouldn't be racist.

It would be rude and ignorant, but not racist.

I'm serious. Continue with this and I will report you because you're not posting in good faith. Get back to the content of the tweet and stop seeking to derail the conversation....

Oh come now this is minced oath.

Please DO report me.

ILoveYourVibes

silverharp wrote: »

if a white person was to move to China or Japan they would tend to feel like an outsider to some extent. It would be interesting to hear their experiences , the point where somebody should switch off is where they start to blame the host population in anyway, its not their problem.

This is true.


But I wouldn't switch off.

China does have issues with homogeneity.

Hamachi

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.

But that is my understanding of what she has said.

Why would somebody who has an issue with ‘whiteness’ deliberately move to a country that was > 99% white not two decades ago and remains ~95% white?

At best, it’s an illogical decision. Otherwise, it’s just plain masochistic.

ILoveYourVibes

So lets stop talking about the person who made the Tweet and whether or not they have the right to free speech... speak about what was tweeted.

Does Ireland see people through a white lens ??

And do you encourage people to disavow their identities?

ILoveYourVibes

Hamachi wrote: »

Why would somebody who has an issue with ‘whiteness’ deliberately move to a country that was > 99% white not two decades ago and remains ~95% white?

At best, it’s an illogical decision. Otherwise, it’s just plain masochistic.

She was a child.

This is an immature unrealistic perception of how life works.

People move for jobs education etc. Or more likely simply because their parents took them.

I mean yes you could go and live in china etc. But your job and life might be here.

Also you are assuming that because she said one bad tweet about Ireland that she doesn't LOVE Ireland.

I know she does.

Just because there are somethings you don't like Ireland doesn't mean you don't like living here.

Hamachi

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

May I remind people that Ireland is 88% white.

Incorrect. Ireland is at least 94% white. The North is 97% white. Neither jurisdiction is the place to be if you have an aversion to ‘whiteness’.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So lets stop talking about the person who made the Tweet and whether or not they have the right to free speech... speak about what was tweeted.

Does Ireland see people through a white lens ??

And do you encourage people to disavow their identities?

Can you give an example of how one might encourage another to disavow their identity?

Wibbs

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.

Then go to a country that isn't White or Irish. Ireland is a White European country. 93% pale of face and go back 20 years ago and it was more like 98%. Not finding that it has a "South Asian Lens" shouldn't come as a bloody shock. Crazy notion I know. It doesn't have a Polish lens or German lens, or Latvian, or British lens either. And guess what there are more of the above list living here compared to South Asians.

dominatinMC

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

May I remind people that Ireland is 88% white.

Thanks for the reminder, truly insightful. And, what exactly, is the issue with this statistic? Or is there one? May I remind you that Nigeria is 98% black.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not think perhaps that Klaz has a point?

We've both made our lives in Asia and we can see how utterly absurd it would be for us to come out and publicly complain that there are too many ethnic Asians in Asian countries and there should be more white people.

It could genuinely be an Onion headline.

Oh it would and would be beyond daft for either of you to say it, even to think you had the "right" to. But like I said before:

Me. Earlier wrote: »

it's all about feels, not logic. Hence it's so over the place as emotionals tend to be and why that kind of argument is resistant to logic and debate.

Another example:

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

May I remind people that Ireland is 88% white.

Totally incorrect, yet pronounced with such confident surety because it's a feeling, a belief based on that feeling. Reality bedamned.

ThunbergsAreGo

Hamachi wrote: »

Why would somebody who has an issue with ‘whiteness’ deliberately move to a country that was > 99% white not two decades ago and remains ~95% white?

At best, it’s an illogical decision. Otherwise, it’s just plain masochistic.

To be fair the tweeter shouldnt be getting abuse.

She just sounds homesick more than anything, and missing her culture - she is facing the prospect of not going home for the next while due to corona etc.

The way she has worded it just comes across a bit entitled but shes just a kid

joe40

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I disagree.

However I don't think its only white people who can be racist. But its not an issue relevant to this particular thing.


I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.

But that is my understanding of what she has said.

Well I'm probably a lefty liberal snowflake in some people minds but saying the issue is with the "whiteness of Ireland" is as daft as complaining about the weather and expecting it to change.

Irishness and Irish culture, as it now, is still strong here and it is vital that remains so.

I'm not against other cultures expressing themselves freely and feeling welcome, and I also have no problem with us as a society working to accommodate that.

However the core sense of Irishness and Irish culture must remain. I believe it will, despite our problems we have a strong society and values.
(Klaz expressed this idea very well in a previous post and I agree with that position.)

Hamachi

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

She was a child.

This is an immature unrealistic perception of how life works.

People move for jobs education etc. Or more likely simply because their parents took them.

I mean yes you could go and live in china etc. But your job and life might be here.

.

Personal happiness and a sense of belonging trumps education and a job. These are replaceable commodities and can be obtained in other societies in which this lady may feel more at home and less critiqued through a lens of ‘whiteness’.

As for immaturity, please re-read this lady’s tweet. It’s the kind of naval gazing twaddle we all spew when we are fourteen. It’s not something any functional
member of society dwells upon.

See, I find this interesting. I'm in Athlone, where there is an Ericsson campus, which has a sizable Indian/Pakistani workforce of programmers/engineers. I live nearby the company, have done some language work myself there, and often I'll see the employees walking in groups of two-three but there's never anyone not of their race with them. In fact, I can't recall seeing them mingling with white people outside of their place of employment. Very friendly at work, and will be absolutely lovely when approached by someone, but they clump together all the time.

So, this seeing Ireland through the lens of Irish culture or white people... when/how could it have happened? When do they mix with enough Irish people to really see or appreciate Ireland the way Irish people do.. or even the way white people do? Hell, I'm a little bemused to think that other people might see Ireland the way I see it.

The logic behind the whole concept bothers me because it's, well, so illogical. I'm sure many Indians do involve themselves socially with Irish people, but in my own experience of Indians, both in Ireland and abroad, most of them will stick with other Indians. I can only think of one "Indian" who was different, and she was raised in Canada, not SE Asia.