What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ArthurDayne

Gradius wrote: »

Yes, the countrys inordinately accelerating population is completely natural. Every country will have +50 odd percent increase in less than a generation. Don't think about it too much.

We don't know who's who anymore, unfortunately our central STATISTICS office forgot to keep a tab on statistics. An innocent mistake. It's no big deal, we'll get around to that some other time. Don't think about it.

Yeah, the infrastructure will be fixed. Annnny day now the trend will suddenly reverse. We don't have enough housing but we swear on our pinky we will someday. Nothing to do with our completely normal population increase, no siiirrreebob. Don't worry about it.

In the meantime, let me hold that money, I'll be right back. Swear to God!

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned elsewhere but assessing population growth in Ireland over the past 20 years and comparisons of that growth with elsewhere should be placed in the context that Ireland is a strange outlier in demography — in that our population is smaller (somewhat substantially) than what it was in the mid-19th century. With the country having experienced almost all-out socioeconomic transformation in the course of the past 50 years or so — along with increased wealth, individual prosperity, longer life expectancy, more working opportunities, less necessity for emigration / permanent emigration — it stands to reason that our population growth has accelerated.

In a way, we can be said to have experienced a delayed onset of the post-War boom — because that boom enticed Irish migrants to the traditional destinations, while Ireland remained stagnant. Then, over time, Ireland leveraged itself as a conduit for business during the rise of globalism, so we weren’t quite at the post-War party . . . but we certainly snook in for the after party. Acceleration in population growth has been on the cards for a while, from the moment we began transforming into a wealthy country — the narrative that it’s being driven by asylum seekers or non-net-contributing migrants doesn’t seem a very holistic one at present.

Heraclius

Gradius wrote: »

Rate versus growth.

Normal core human temperature is 37 degrees.

If your temperature increased at a RATE of 1% per year, you wouldn't live to see your third birthday.

If your temperature GREW by 1% total, you'd live happily ever after with a nice sweat.

1% can sound benign, but it can mean very different things. It's late and I can't be arsed explaining everything.

Please explain how a 1% growth rate compounding over 19 years leads to 14% growth? I really don't understand. For me 100*(1.01)^19 does not equal 114.

Heraclius

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

you are speaking about a member where MORE THAN 50% of their total posts on this entire forum came on this very thread IN THE LAST 24 HOURS....the same member who called this thread a "cesspit " earlier.



That to me suggests its a sleeper multiple account, or someone intentionally posting nonsense for the sake of attention, at the very least someone with an agenda.

Or I joined relatively recently and due to my dislike of some of the posts in this particular thread I couldn't help myself posting and trying to challenge them. My agenda is that I simply don't agree with your world view and probably never will.

Heraclius

Heraclius wrote: »

Please explain how a 1% growth rate compounding over 19 years leads to 14% growth? I really don't understand. For me 100*(1.01)^19 does not equal 114.

Something something compound interest ?
I dunno, I dropped out of business studies and did art

Heraclius

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Something something compound interest ?
I dunno, I dropped out of business studies and did art

If population growth is a simple rate then 1% over 19 years yields 19% growth. If it is compound like I think it should be since the whole population grows and not just the original section then it would be over 20%

Ash.J.Williams

Gradius wrote: »

This kind of thought process must surely be on its last legs by now. For Christ's sake, it's a relic.

"More people = more money for everybody!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuVh36vQkSI

The biggest issue in this country, housing, is directly impacted by increasing amounts of people. That's just for starters, no need to go further.

When you refer to "increased resources" what does that even mean? An increase in gdp? Who gives a rats arse about leprechaun economics when the cost of living is going up and up and up for the average person, waiting times for serious issues are getting longer and longer, less facility because every inch of space is being turned into accommodation for investors/vultures and so on?!

we are encouraging multi nationals to set up here providing jobs for skillsets we cannot fill, therefore we encourage skilled workers from abroad and may of which make up that pop increase, so i'm saying many of the 1.8m are people working like the rest of us. Assuming you work that is.

Heraclius

Heraclius wrote: »

If population growth is a simple rate then 1% over 19 years yields 19% growth. If it is compound like I think it should be since the whole population grows and not just the original section then it would be over 20%

Did I mention I was sh1t at sums too?

Heraclius

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

we are encouraging multi nationals to set up here providing jobs for skillsets we cannot fill, therefore we encourage skilled workers from abroad and may of which make up that pop increase, so i'm saying many of the 1.8m are people working like the rest of us. Assuming you work that is.

Yes, this needs to be pointed out more often! I doubt our economy could compete without attracting immigration.

Cordell

Like it was said on the no whites need apply for BBC job thread, affirmative action doesn't close the door for the whites, it only opens it wider for everyone: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-57558746

Fandymo

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol
Hilarious
Why don't you ask the civil liberties authorities why they don't allow a central register of everyone living in the country?

Why don't you try to find out how many Estonians live here? .......

Approx. 3000

https://vm.ee/en/countries/ireland?display=relations

Heraclius

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Did I mention I was sh1t at sums too?

I'm not challenging or questioning your ability at maths though. My question was directed to a different poster.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

Approx. 3000

https://vm.ee/en/countries/ireland?display=relations

Proving my point.
No official Irish records, the Estonian website estimates approx 3000.

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

we are encouraging multi nationals to set up here providing jobs for skillsets we cannot fill, therefore we encourage skilled workers from abroad and may of which make up that pop increase, so i'm saying many of the 1.8m are people working like the rest of us. Assuming you work that is.

What skillsets are required that cannot be filled in Ireland? Are you really suggesting that Irish universities, and other private educational institutions are incapable of training/educating Irish people to the standard to avail of these positions?

And as the costs of living and do business in Ireland continue to rise, there will be greater pressure on multi-nationals to choose other European nations which have invested heavily into languages or education. Ireland has been lucky for the past two decades, but it's not a permanent competitive advantage, and companies have a growing number of options on where to establish themselves.

There is no guarantee that new multinationals will continue to set up in Ireland, further increasing the demands for such labor.

Skilled immigration to Ireland is definitely a positive, but we need to be aware that there being a gap in filling jobs is a good thing. All it takes is a few multinationals to leave, or a variety of companies to close, before we have hundreds, if not thousands of people once more looking for work. That needs to be factored into how many immigrants are allowed entry into the country, especially, when citizenship is extended to them.

Cordell

Ireland cannot fill the demand of software engineers, not because the universities and students are not up to scratch, but simply because their numbers is not enough. Highly skilled immigrants that are coming here to fill up these jobs will not stay here on the dole if their skills are no longer required. You won't have the doctors and engineers, the real ones not the ones from the back of the lorries, sponging the system.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

Like it was said on the no whites need apply for BBC job thread, affirmative action doesn't close the door for the whites, it only opens it wider for everyone: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-57558746

What's with the random link drop, do you want to link it something in this thread or even discuss the link at all?

At GCSE, in 2019, 18% of white British pupils on free meals achieved grade 5 in English and maths, compared with 23% for the average for pupils on free meals.

For university entry, 16% of white British pupils on free meals get places, compared with 59% of black African pupils on free meals, 59% of Bangladeshi pupils on free meals and 32% of black Caribbean pupils on free meals.

Why are poor white pupils falling behind?
The report highlighted a mix of challenges about the local areas where many poor white pupils lived - and also "cultural factors" that could limit how much support they got from their families.

These underlying social problems included:

1. Poor local jobs market and lack of opportunity
2. Lack of community assets and social organisations, poor local services and transport
3. Families with "multi-generational poverty"
4. Disengaged parents with a poor experience of education

"There's this nagging feeling that it's not for me," says 18-year-old Oliver Jones-Lyons, describing the "suspicions" about the value of education that he thinks hold back some white working class communities.

He has been a pupil on free meals at a school near Newcastle and says there is still a concern about the education system harbouring snobbery and class prejudice, even down to stereotypes about regional accents which "mark you out as different".

There's an inclination to turn away from exams and instead say "my dad can get us a job".

"There's a lack of explanation of how education is helping you," Oliver says.

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What's with the random link drop, do you want to link it something in this thread or even discuss the link at all?

I thought the point was obvious but in case it's not: there's so much resources used to help the multicultural section of the society so nothing is left for the "privileged".
Let's not make the same mistake here.

Ash.J.Williams

Deleted User wrote: »

What skillsets are required that cannot be filled in Ireland? Are you really suggesting that Irish universities, and other private educational institutions are incapable of training/educating Irish people to the standard to avail of these positions?

And as the costs of living and do business in Ireland continue to rise, there will be greater pressure on multi-nationals to choose other European nations which have invested heavily into languages or education. Ireland has been lucky for the past two decades, but it's not a permanent competitive advantage, and companies have a growing number of options on where to establish themselves.

There is no guarantee that new multinationals will continue to set up in Ireland, further increasing the demands for such labor.

Skilled immigration to Ireland is definitely a positive, but we need to be aware that there being a gap in filling jobs is a good thing. All it takes is a few multinationals to leave, or a variety of companies to close, before we have hundreds, if not thousands of people once more looking for work. That needs to be factored into how many immigrants are allowed entry into the country, especially, when citizenship is extended to them.

our uni's are great but we need larger numbers of specialised workers, when you finish degree/masters your are not specialised, that takes work experience

of course multi's might not continue starting up, then the specialised foreign workers will leave.

Heraclius

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

you dont agree with my world view ?


of course you dont, you are one of those people that seems to want racism to be everywhere so you can pretend you are some woke person, you look for it everywhere.
When people like myself married to a non irish person of mixed race tells you they love this country, do not find it a racist one it does not suit your agenda.


MY government was elected by Irish people to represent Irish people, that does not suit your agenda, so you deflect from that.


When i say there is too many immigrants , you automatically make it about color when its about numbers , because that is your agenda.


I think all people should be vetted, no ex con, and criminals, but to you we should allow every dirtbag from around the world to come here






almost 3 quarters of your entire posts in the last 24 hours does suggest you are either trolling or a multiple account, but there is certainly an agenda

I'm pretty far from "woke". I just believe in fair play. I have several non national friends all of whom work and none of whom have claimed any benefit in Ireland. I was quite annoyed reading the sweeping negative comments in this forum and felt too many were going unchallenged.

I have never stated that I believe Ireland is or is not a racist country so I don't know where you are getting the idea that I see racism everywhere. I think Ireland definitely does contain its fair share of racist people though but that's quite different to seeing it everywhere.

I'm as entitled as any other user of boards to engage in this thread. I have mainly used my profile to read threads over the past months. Maybe play the ball and not the man?

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

our uni's are great but we need larger numbers of specialised workers,

Except, we don't need larger numbers. We need greater investment and the creation of sustainable businesses. A recession is coming. Even before covid, a recession was coming, and it's going to be worse due to all that's happened over the last 1.5 years. Businesses are going to close, and most others will aim to become more cost effective, which invariably means the cutting off of unneeded roles, and outsourcing of functions. That outsourcing, due to the growth of the internet, and the focus on remote work, will mean that a lot of such specialised work can be done remotely.. and that includes using specialists living in other countries.

when you finish degree/masters your are not specialised, that takes work experience

That depends entirely on the field of study. Many qualifications are more technical in nature, and their qualification is more than enough to be properly employed. That's often true with regards to the pharmaceutical industry, or various aspects that relate to the multi-nationals.

of course multi's might not continue starting up, then the specialised foreign workers will leave.

They might. I'm an expat. I live abroad, and I'm very aware of the costs involved in leaving any country that I've already invested time and money in. It's particularly difficult/expensive for other expats who have families. Fine, some people have organised their lives for easy movement (I've done both), but that's not going to apply to most migrants coming into Ireland. It really depends on whether they have somewhere to leave for... we're facing a global recession now... not a localised one.

You keep referring to specialised foreign workers like this accounts for a large number. It won't. Specialists, and experts in their fields, tend to relate to niche areas, which don't attract large numbers interested or capable in doing them. In any case, the numbers of companies/roles available in Ireland (considering it's size, and population) for such specialised workers will be slim. It's not like Ireland has become the robotics, or Smart technologies hub for Europe.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

I thought the point was obvious but in case it's not: there's so much resources used to help the multicultural section of the society so nothing is left for the "privileged".
Let's not make the same mistake here.

From the article you quoted and the report mentioned in the article there are 4 underlying social problems listed. Which one of the below social problems is the fault of multiculturalism in Britain in your opinion?

1. Poor local jobs market and lack of opportunity
2. Lack of community assets and social organisations, poor local services and transport
3. Families with "multi-generational poverty"
4. Disengaged parents with a poor experience of education

Heraclius

Heraclius wrote: »

I'm pretty far from "woke". I just believe in fair play. I have several non national friends all of whom work and none of whom have claimed any benefit in Ireland. I was quite annoyed reading the sweeping negative comments in this forum and felt too many were going unchallenged.

You still haven't challenged them though. You made your own sweeping comments instead, and have been arguing about population percentages. So.. where are your quotes of what posters wrote, and your arguments against them?

Maybe play the ball and not the man?

You called this thread a cesspit. You reap what you sow.

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

From the article you quoted and the report mentioned in the article there are 4 underlying social problems listed. Which one of the below social problems is the fault of multiculturalism in Britain in your opinion?

None of them is the fault of multiculturalism but all of them are not addressed because the resources are used to address the SAME problems in the multicultural sections of the society.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

None of them is the fault of multiculturalism but all of them are not addressed because the resources are used to address the SAME problems in the multicultural sections of the society.

I don't think that is supported by the article in question.
It is certainly not supported by the young white boy who is an applicant to oxford and on the free meals scheme.

Justin Credible Darts

a couple of questions

1. Why is it the only people who think Ireland is racist are Irish white people ?
Somehow all the non Irish I know dont feel the same way, but only white Irish think it ?

2. If Ireland is racist, then why are immigrants getting housed quicker than Irish people ? It anyone is being discriminated against its the Irish in their own country.

3. Can someone show me a country where forced multiculturalism has even come close to working ?.

4. If its ok for countries like the USA to refuse people entry in to their country, refuse visas to criminals etc, why is it not ok for other countries to do the same.

The amount of people who think we should open the border let everyone in, and we tax payers pay for it whilst our own people end up homeless, is a disgrace, in fact you could call that racism against Irish.

Heraclius

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You still haven't challenged them though. You made your own sweeping comments instead, and have been arguing about population percentages. So.. where are your quotes of what posters wrote, and your arguments against them?



You called this thread a cesspit. You reap what you sow.

A thread isn't a person.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

The amount of people who think we should open the border let everyone in

Pretty sure you couldn't find even one post that says this.

Annasopra

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

a couple of questions

1. Why is it the only people who think Ireland is racist are Irish white people ?
Somehow all the non Irish I know dont feel the same way, but only white Irish think it ?

2. If Ireland is racist, then why are immigrants getting housed quicker than Irish people ? It anyone is being discriminated against its the Irish in their own country.

3. Can someone show me a country where forced multiculturalism has even come close to working ?.

4. If its ok for countries like the USA to refuse people entry in to their country, refuse visas to criminals etc, why is it not ok for other countries to do the same.

The amount of people who think we should open the border let everyone in, and we tax payers pay for it whilst our own people end up homeless, is a disgrace, in fact you could call that racism against Irish.

Where is your evidence of the assertions of questions 1 and 2.

Heraclius

Heraclius wrote: »

A thread isn't a person.

Fine. whatever. You're obviously unwilling to post to the thread in good faith.

Heraclius

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fine. whatever. You're obviously unwilling to post to the thread in good faith.

I think you are confusing posting in good faith and agreeing with your opinion.

Necro

Gradius don't post in this thread again