What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

Probationary periods. Staggered.

I have a good friend from Kirghistan who married someone just so she could gain a European visa, and Irish citizenship. She was prepared to live that way so she could get what she wanted. I think we underestimate the value of both, our citizenship, and also the EU visas... why can't we make migrants jump through various hoops before they become eligible for citizenship?

Because you will be told "that is racist"


Don't you know we must let them in, house them too, pay them their benefits, so what is it financially cripples us
so what if jihadis come
How dare we question the numbers clambering to get in.


sod our own people on the housing list
who cares if the health system is getting worse.
some do gooders have decided it is racist to question things

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

because he was trying to imply I was a racist.


I despise people who treat women like dirt
I despise people who wish gay people be stoned to death
I despise people who think nothing of marrying 12 year olds
I despise people who would pimp out their daughter in arranged marriages

I despise people who think blowing up people is ok because of some invisible man in the sky

Whereas I am bisexual, have lived/traveled in many countries, and I honestly don't care (since I can't change it). What/how other countries behave within their own borders, is up to them... I only care about what happens within western nations. I know, on entering a foreign nation, that I will need to accept a wide range of attitudes, i don't particularly like. That's just the way things are.

I do not want those backward, vile people in my country.
Trying to imply i must therefore be a racist is the only comeback they have, and says more about them.

Yes, I see that. This thread is a good example.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

As for Justin Credible Darts, err... I find he exaggerates too much, but TBH, you do the same.

is arranged marriages an exaggeration ?
how about jihadis in Ireland ? was that report a lie ?

Did I make it up about certain muslim countries treating women and the gay community like dirt ?

are ISIS and terrorist orgs a figment of my imagination ?


No, these people exist, and are coming here.

Any person who cares about gay rights, womens rights etc does not want those type of people here.


As i said earlier, we had one poster who thinks these cavemen type people "can change" when they get here.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Because you will be told "that is racist

I've lived over a decade in China. I'm well used to hearing what is "this" and "that". I heard the same in Catholic Ireland TBH.

I learned a long time ago, that what people consider to be racist, doesn't mean it is racist... in spite of their popular movement to change the definition. I tend to stick to the definition that I grew up with, since it's absent all the politics, and double standards.

Don't you know we must let them in, house them too, pay them their benefits, so what is it financially cripples us
so what if jihadis come
How dare we question the numbers clambering to get in.

Nope. Sorry. I'm not with you on this one. We already have basic requirements for immigration which are {usually} followed. Everyone isn't getting in.

I've tried to be subtle about this from earlier posts, but I guess I need to be more obvious. Just as I don't like, "RobbieTheRobber " or "Bubbly";s posts,.. I don't like yours either, because you tend to jump to the extremes.

The extremes are too easily dismissed regardless of how relevant they are. It's better to stick to the middle because it appeals to more people, and therefore. gains more support.

sod our own people on the housing list
who cares if the health system is getting worse.
some do gooders have decided it is racist to question things

Ireland has a long history of censoring differing opinions. This is nothing new.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

is arranged marriages an exaggeration ?

I have no issue with arrange marriages. and in many cases, i'd consider it to be a better system. Many of my friends are living in arranged marriages. Is it perfect, no. Is is sometimes good? hell yes.

how about jihadis in Ireland ? was that report a lie ?

There is no Jihad that relates to Ireland. Pure exaggeration.

Did I make it up about certain muslim countries treating women and the gay community like dirt ?

Nope. But you'll find the same throughout the world. Africa is incredibly homophobic, as is their layers of sexism.

I wonder why the "West" is held up to some higher standard, when it failed to achieve it, and nowhere else tries that hard to achieve it.

are ISIS and terrorist orgs a figment of my imagination ?

Are they relevant>?

Any person who cares about gay rights, womens rights etc does not want those type of people here.

I'm technically gay. I care...a don't mind them coming here. I've been to the M.east, and I have m.Eastern friends living in the west, who don't give a damn about homosexuality, but will be adament in their objection within their own community. We must seek to understand why people behave the way they do. n

In any case, you're shifting goalposts.

As i said earlier, we had one poster who thinks these cavemen type people "can change" when they get here.

So what? We get individuals with all manner of opinions here. They don't represent the majority. Hell, I don't represent the majority.

Justin Credible Darts

good for you,

But I dont like homophobes, or women haters, or terrorists, I dont like people who think marrying 12 years old are ok etc etc I don believe in arranged marriages, where a girl could be forced to marry a man, what if she were lesbian for arguments sake, where is her right, her choice ? when forced to marry some man her pimp father picked out for her, unable to come out as gay for fear of some reprisal of disgracing the family.


I don't want that here, and you can huff and puff all you want, but that is what makes this country better than those places because I have the right to say these things here in this country.

yoke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, the best chance for other cultures to change is for those people to remain there, become dissatisfied with what they have, and seek change. Those people coming to the west, will invariably look back at their own culture (and nation) with rose-tinted glasses (nostalgia), and want their own culture to be transplanted here, ignoring whatever negatives there are, instead focusing on the negatives within western culture.

In any case, different national/cultural groups behave differently. While many might see it as a form of racism, such considerations should be examined/researched, and used in determining policy regarding immigration policies.

As for fighting them... I don't buy it. War has changed. It's virtually impossible to take and hold territory without the extermination of the local population, and that's pretty much impossible these days. Most wars which involve the taking of territory concern neighboring countries with similar cultures. Beyond the problems with terrorism, I don't believe we have much to fear about needing to fight anyone, and terrorism is not going to solved any time soon.

You’re putting words in my mouth there - I didn’t say western culture was so great that any immigrants would instantly adopt all aspects of it. I said the immigrants can change. The host country will inevitably change due to the immigrants too, as it always has in the past.

You keep making the point that you’ve been to Asia and a lot of those countries are nationalist, therefore we should be like that as well. This is flawed logic, pretty much any country in Asia that you find nationalistic now, has been through massive change and disruption over the past 100 years… the nationalism is a result of short sightedness/stupidity, not something to be emulated in the west as you are suggesting.
The average person who you found to be nationalistic in those countries quite often hasn’t studied the effects of nationalism in history - otherwise a lot of them might remember how people like Genghis Khan got started (hint: Chinese racism against Mongol tribes/Great Wall of China/“if we don’t let them in, they will go away” attitude. Those that don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it.
Japan seems to be doing the same thing as well. Isolationalism didn’t work for them in the past (they were far behind the rest of Asia technologically by the time of the Mongols), and it won’t work in the future either if that’s the way they’re deciding to go again.

In response to the people who think that nationalism will not lead to conflict - you cannot have 2 sources of authority (2 governments) on one planet without either compromise or conflict. It is impossible. Sooner or later, someone will get pissed off that someone is mining something too much and issue ultimatums, and there’ll be war.
Anything else is “unstable equilibrium”, in the long term (over 100 years).

Dontfadeaway

About the housing situation. Are the Irish getting pushed down the list?

yoke

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

About the housing situation. Are the Irish getting pushed down the list?

Dunno where everyone is getting this from. Normal (legal) immigrants, at least from outside the EU, have no chance of getting on any housing list, since their visa depends on them having a job until they get Irish citizenship (which they can apply for after 5 years, but have to keep their job until the process is finished so in total it’s nearer to 6 years).

After they get Irish citizenship they have the same rights as any other Irish citizen.

ThunbergsAreGo

yoke wrote: »

Dunno where everyone is getting this from. Normal (legal) immigrants, at least from outside the EU, have no chance of getting on any housing list, since their visa depends on them having a job until they get Irish citizenship (which they can apply for after 5 years, but have to keep their job until the process is finished so in total it’s nearer to 6 years).

After they get Irish citizenship they have the same rights as any other Irish citizen.

Why are there so many non Irish on the housing list then, many from outside the EU?

There was a whole thread on it. A housing list is not just for the unemployed

RobbieTheRobber

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can't judge the mental state of someone posting to boards. It's ridiculous. I've a BS in Psychology, and that, in no way, prepares me to make assumptions about the mental state of people who post online (actually, in all honesty, it does, but it's still a retarded notion)



You made a play on white or ethnic nationalism. TBH after reading your posts, I wonder what kind of perception you have about White people because your posts tend to follow a certain theme.

As for Justin Credible Darts, err... I find he exaggerates too much, but TBH, you do the same.

Klaz you keep making statements about me and not providing a single quote to support your comment.
Have you found a quote yet to support your previous statement about me?

Have you got any quotes to support your claim my posts have a theme about white people?

The piece I posted about white nationalism was actual a section quoted from the EU report on terrorist threats linked in this thread by enricoh.

Many posters jumped to conclusions but I read the report and commented on that information.
Was it wrong of me to read and use a report like that?

The authors of that report highlight the risk and increase in online right wing extremism during Covid. They identify some key types of right wing extremism.
The section I quoted and deleted was from that report and was directly linked to the things JCD was posting. If you want I can post it again and directly link it to that posters comments.

I presume you will collate quotes soon that show my theme on white people that you falsely claim I hold.

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

because he was trying to imply I was a racist.


I despise people who treat women like dirt
I despise people who wish gay people be stoned to death
I despise people who think nothing of marrying 12 year olds
I despise people who would pimp out their daughter in arranged marriages

I despise people who think blowing up people is ok because of some invisible man in the sky


I do not want those backward, vile people in my country.
Trying to imply i must therefore be a racist is the only comeback they have, and says more about them.

Describing billions of people as vile based on nothing more than their religion is racist.

This is a racist post.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Klaz you keep making statements about me and not providing a single quote to support your comment.

Robbie, I don't keep anything about you. I haven't responded to any of your posts in ages, nor have I referred to your posts or their content, to other people. I simply said that I don't like your stance on this topic. I made one statement about you (and even then, it's more to do with your posts).

"You made a play on white or ethnic nationalism. TBH after reading your posts, I wonder what kind of perception you have about White people because your posts tend to follow a certain theme."

I presume you will collate quotes soon that show my theme on white people that you falsely claim I hold.

Nope, I won't. Will you back up each and every general comment you've made on this thread about "the posters" on this thread?

Meh.

But you're right. I shouldn't have written it, although for the reason, that I have no desire to get into a debate with you. I'll delete the post.

RobbieTheRobber

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Robbie, I don't keep anything about you. I haven't responded to any of your posts in ages, nor have I referred to your posts or their content, to other people. I simply said that I don't like your stance on this topic. I made one statement about you (and even then, it's more to do with your posts).

"You made a play on white or ethnic nationalism. TBH after reading your posts, I wonder what kind of perception you have about White people because your posts tend to follow a certain theme."



Nope, I won't. Will you back up each and every general comment you've made on this thread about "the posters" on this thread?

Meh.

But you're right. I shouldn't have written it, although for the reason, that I have no desire to get into a debate with you. I'll delete the post.

Klaz you responded to more than one of my posts yesterday and made unsupported statements about me. I asked you to support your statements and then this post.
So you are lying straight out lying.

Honestly I guess I'll just wait for you to next post about how "woke" people are always running away from the argument.

Yes Klaz I do support any specific things I say about posters with quotes of said poster.

yoke

yoke wrote: »

You’re putting words in my mouth there - I didn’t say western culture was so great that any immigrants would instantly adopt all aspects of it.

Neither did I. jmayo said it in his response to your post. So, you see, you've just put words in my mouth.

You keep making the point that you’ve been to Asia and a lot of those countries are nationalist, therefore we should be like that as well. This is flawed logic, pretty much any country in Asia that you find nationalistic now, has been through massive change and disruption over the past 100 years… the nationalism is a result of short sightedness/stupidity, not something to be emulated in the west as you are suggesting.

I keep making the point that I've been to Asia, and use that to support many of my points. Yup. I don't keep making the point that Asian countries are nationalistic. Nor, do I keep making any kind of point that we should be like Asian countries.

Where did I suggest that we should embrace Asian nationalism?

The average person who you found to be nationalistic in those countries quite often hasn’t studied the effects of nationalism in history - otherwise a lot of them might remember how people like Genghis Khan got started (hint: Chinese racism against Mongol tribes/Great Wall of China/“if we don’t let them in, they will go away” attitude. Those that don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Well done. You've managed to dumb down history so much. Genghis Khan didn't arise due to Chinese nationalism. haha. He arose because the mongols were a ethnic group devoted to raiding, steppe wandering, and he saw an opportunity.

As for people not "studying" nationalism, whatever that means... they have the same resources you have. What makes you so superior that you understand nationalism so much better?

In response to the people who think that nationalism will not lead to conflict - you cannot have 2 sources of authority (2 governments) on one planet without either compromise or conflict. It is impossible. Sooner or later, someone will get pissed off that someone is mining something too much and issue ultimatums, and there’ll be war.
Anything else is “unstable equilibrium”, in the long term (over 100 years).

I do find it amusing that you have failed to address anything in my post that quoted your piece. Everything you're writing about is related to others. And either you've got my nickname mixed up with someone else, or you're misrepresenting my posts. It's very odd.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Klaz you responded to more than one of my posts yesterday and made unsupported statements about me. I asked you to support your statements and then this post.
So you are lying straight out lying.

Liar liar pants on fire. It's a lot like the accusation of racism these days.

Honestly I guess I'll just wait for you to next post about how "woke" people are always running away from the argument.

Yes Klaz I do support any specific things I say about posters with quotes of said poster.

As I said, I made a mistake. I shouldn't have posted last night directly to you, and I apologise for doing so. There. We can go back to ignoring each other now.

RobbieTheRobber

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Liar liar pants on fire. It's a lot like the accusation of racism these days.



As I said, I made a mistake. I shouldn't have posted last night directly to you, and I apologise for doing so. There. We can go back to ignoring each other now.

I guess I will take this as a tacit admission that you can support none of the statements you made about me yesterday.

Justin Credible Darts

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Describing billions of people as vile based on nothing more than their religion is racist.

This is a racist post.

how is it racist, when i am defending women who are the same race and religion
how is it racist when i am defending gay people of the same religion and race ?


I was clearly referring to the actions of certain people and their own personal behavior.


Typical you, throwing accusations around.

rgossip30

Deleted User wrote: »

<snip>

Do you have any thoughts on Excessive Posting Disorder ?

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

how is it racist, when i am defending women who are the same race and religion
how is it racist when i am defending gay people of the same religion and race ?


I was clearly referring to the actions of certain people and their own personal behavior.


Typical you, throwing accusations around.

Describing all Muslim people as vile is racist.

gw80

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Describing all Muslim people as vile is racist.

To be fair,he didn't say all Muslim people are racist, I read it as the people who do the things listed as vile,

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

because he was trying to imply I was a racist.


I despise people who treat women like dirt
I despise people who wish gay people be stoned to death
I despise people who think nothing of marrying 12 year olds
I despise people who would pimp out their daughter in arranged marriages

I despise people who think blowing up people is ok because of some invisible man in the sky


I do not want those backward, vile people in my country.
Trying to imply i must therefore be a racist is the only comeback they have, and says more about them.

gw80 wrote: »

To be fair,he didn't say all Muslim people are racist, I read it as the people who do the things listed as vile,

He didn't say muslim people are racist he described them as "backward, vile people"!

Justin Credible Darts

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Describing all Muslim people as vile is racist.

Are the gay people who are treated like dirt not also muslim ? I am defending them
The wives of those people are also muslim, and I was defending them too, but you have chosen to ignore this to throw around accusations




show me where I said ALL muslims were vile



Oh wait, you cant because i never said it, but it dont matter to you in your quest to throw accusations around

RobbieTheRobber

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Are the gay people who are treated like dirt not also muslim ? I am defending them
The wives of those people are also muslim, and I was defending them too, but you have chosen to ignore this to throw around accusations




show me where I said ALL muslims were vile



Oh wait, you cant because i never said it, but it dont matter to you in your quest to throw accusations around

See my post above for the answer you are seeking.

Justin Credible Darts

show me where I said ALL muslims were vile

Justin Credible Darts

gw80 wrote: »

To be fair,he didn't say all Muslim people are racist, I read it as the people who do the things listed as vile,

correct, and everyone can see that exactly is what i was referring to.
But because of agendas, people will try twist everything and throw out accusations to deflect and spin and twist the narrative.

Fandymo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

He didn't say muslim people are racist he described them as "backward, vile people"!

People who do the things he stated ARE “backward, vile people” though. He didn’t say all Muslims do them. He never even mentioned the word Muslim. A lot of twisting of words by you, yet your the first crying if someone misinterprets your words.

jmayo

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

because he was trying to imply I was a racist.

I despise people who treat women like dirt
I despise people who wish gay people be stoned to death
I despise people who think nothing of marrying 12 year olds
I despise people who would pimp out their daughter in arranged marriages

I despise people who think blowing up people is ok because of some invisible man in the sky

I do not want those backward, vile people in my country.
Trying to imply i must therefore be a racist is the only comeback they have, and says more about them.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Describing billions of people as vile based on nothing more than their religion is racist.

This is a racist post.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Describing all Muslim people as vile is racist.

So RobbieTheRobber
looking at this logically from your deductions and statements you are saying that ALL muslims have some or all of the following traits or behaviours:

• treat women like dirt
• wish gay people be stoned to death
• think nothing of marrying 12 year olds
• would pimp out their daughter in arranged marriages
• think blowing up people is ok because of some invisible man in the sky

You must be saying that because Justin Credible Darts never even mentioned muslims, never mind ALL muslims.

A lot of us have been saying for years that SOME muslims except the above traits, but people like you have always denied it.
Yet now it seems you are going off and saying it is ALL muslims that have those traits and behaviours.

Remind us again who is supposedly bigoted and narrow minded?

rgossip30

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

He didn't say muslim people are racist he described them as "backward, vile people"!

We have a Taoiseach that says Irish people with any nationalist notions are backward . I guess he is a racist too .

yoke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Neither did I. jmayo said it in his response to your post. So, you see, you've just put words in my mouth.

Sorry about that, you’re right, you’re not the one that part of my post should have been directed at.

I don't keep making the point that Asian countries are nationalistic.

You said, and I quote:

“You see, I find this part quite interesting because I've traveled extensively in non-western nations. China is incredibly nationalistic. As are most Asian countries. Russia, definitely ”

It does sound to me there that you made the point that most Asian countries are incredibly nationalistic.

Nor, do I keep making any kind of point that we should be like Asian countries.

Where did I suggest that we should embrace Asian nationalism?

Well, the point you were making was that everywhere else is nationalistic, so we should be too. Your exact words were:

“ Why is it that only western nations must be so welcoming to everyone, when non-western nations aren't themselves? In fact, if you want to look at nationalism worldwide, the biggest examples of nationalistic nations would be found outside of Western nations.. and yet”.

Well done. You've managed to dumb down history so much.

It’s called summarising. You should try it sometime 🙂

Genghis Khan didn't arise due to Chinese nationalism. haha. He arose because the mongols were a ethnic group devoted to raiding, steppe wandering, and he saw an opportunity.

Interestingly I have never heard any historical article or book explain that Genghis Khan happened because mongols were just an ethnic group devoted to raiding. Shows how little you know of what happened there, and yet you’re the one accusing me of dumbing it down.
Simple fact: if mongols hadn’t been excluded from joining Chinese society, Genghis Khan wouldn’t have been able to unite the mongol tribes to go raiding against them. For the record, there were very successful multiethnic cities back then as well, look up Vijayanagara in India from around that time period. If you want an example of a multiethnic successful empire, there’s always Rome.
But no, I guess everyone else is wrong, you’re right, and Mongols are just a people who intrinsically like raiding.

As for people not "studying" nationalism, whatever that means... they have the same resources you have. What makes you so superior that you understand nationalism so much better?

You have the same resources as Stephen Hawking had. Why didn’t you find Hawking radiation?

I do find it amusing that you have failed to address anything in my post that quoted your piece. Everything you're writing about is related to others. And either you've got my nickname mixed up with someone else, or you're misrepresenting my posts. It's very odd.

Failed to address? Actually it’s a case of not having the time or inclination to address. There are too many points I disagreed with you on, so I chose to address the few I could within a reasonable time period.

For example - you said you don’t “buy” the war idea, that 2 separate authority sources on one planet would in the end always go to war. But you didn’t offer any argument why you don’t buy it.
I offered my argument as simply as I could put it, that someone will mine something that will piss off the other crowd, leading to conflict. I don’t see how anyone can’t see that. It’s pretty much the history of every single country on this planet with its neighbours