What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Edit Just to clarify your last little misinterpretation of me Wrenboy I have said multiple times on this thread I am opposed to capital punishment.
And just to be very very very very clear so you don't get upset about this again.

I RobbieTheRobber oppose capital punishment in all its forms in all places on earth (and also in made up heavens) and by all parties.

WrenBoy wrote: »

Again I don't know why you are not answering, Im getting sick of asking:
Do you think wanting adulterers to be stoned to death to be enshrined in law is good ?
.

Wrenboy are you ok.
I mean I underlined it and bolded it. I tried to be as clear as I could so you didn't get upset. But yet here you are again getting angry about your crazy gotcha question.

I don't support capital punishment in any shape or form. Do you think I would then be happy about it being enshrined in law?

Honestly are you ok?
Maybe you should take a break from posting. I have answered this question quite clearly for you already but your angrily pestering me now about it again.

WrenBoy

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wrenboy are you ok.
I mean I underlined it and bolded it. I tried to be as clear as I could so you didn't get upset. But yet here you are again getting angry about your crazy gotcha question.

I don't support capital punishment in any shape or form. Do you think I would then be happy about it being enshrined in law?

Honestly are you ok?
Maybe you should take a break from posting. I have answered this question quite clearly for you already but your angrily pestering me now about it again.

Finally,
So by your own logic you are aligned with me in your summation "west Muslims good non west Muslims bad " A position I never positted but you assigned to me because I, like you don't agree with capital punishment. Super. Thats out of the way now.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So I can't find your evidence for 3/4 of muslims in Egypt and Pakistan wanting stoning for adultery in the article can you quote the section please?

Pew - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

You may need to run a search for "stoning" its under the "also of note" section.

At least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan say they would favor making each of the following the law in their countries: stoning people who commit adultery, whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion. Majorities of Muslims in Jordan and Nigeria also favor these harsh punishments.

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Anyhoo there's a mere 25000 potential jihadis in the UK these days. Maybe the Brits got all the bad ones n we'll get the good ones- sorted!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-attacks-a7923966.html%3famp

You have heard of the common travel area?

jmayo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The catholic religion is over 80% of this country according to the last census. ...

You are another spoofer and you know it.

Do 80% of the population go to mass on Sunday then?
How come if 80% of the population are such great catholics then why are the vast majority of priests all elderly or now foreign?

If 80% of the population were devout catholics following the church teachings and the bible then how the flying fook did we ever vote in divorce, abortion and same sex marriage?

Trying to debate with you is a waste of my time.

RobbieTheRobber

WrenBoy wrote: »

Finally,

My post was two hours before your request that I make this big statement.

WrenBoy wrote: »

So by your own logic you are aligned with me in your summation "west Muslims good non west Muslims bad " A position I never positted but you assigned to me because I, like you don't agree with capital punishment. Super. Thats out of the way now.

No we are not of the same opinion on that. Sorry pal.

WrenBoy wrote: »

Pew - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

You may need to run a search for "stoning" its under the "also of note" section.

I mean I will happily read this report and discuss with you, but you have to promise no getting angry that I wont say I don't agree with Capital punishment again. OK?

RobbieTheRobber

WrenBoy wrote: »

.
Pew research - https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview

Eh those aren't the same links Wren

WrenBoy wrote: »

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah

This is a new source.
The reason I couldn't find it was, it wasn't in the first link you provided right?

It might well be in the second link you provided but the reason I couldn't find it in the first was because it wasn't there.

enricoh

Another real success story in court today- came here from Africa, tests positive for HIV, has unprotected sex with a couple of women and infects them.
Appealing his conviction, no mention of a deportation order.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-questions-lawyers-in-appeal-by-man-jailed-for-infecting-ex-partners-with-hiv-1147544.html

jmreire

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

JM You have state categoricity that I should read the Quran and that stoning is prescribed in its pages.

This morning I have researched your claim and can find no evidence of stoning being prescribed in the Quran. I can and have provided evidence of it in the Bible.

Wikipedia has this to say on stoning in the Quran.


So as you have previously posted this text

Can you tell me which section of the Quran I should use to "educate" myself on stoning being the prescribed punishment for adultery?

My bad Robbie, as Fandymo has pointed out, its in the Hadith's, which have the same power as the word of Quran, and are in support of it. Where there's any doubt about a passage in the Quran, the Hadiths are meant to explain what Mohammad meant, and they are an authority in themselves.
As for comparison with the Bible, no surprise's there, as the Quran was based on the Old Testament.. Adam and Eve, Ibrahim, Isaac, Jusuf etc. 600 years after Jesus brought the new and everlasting covenant between God and Men effectively the reformation ) Mohammad arrived, and with a Christian Cleric, ** set about establishing a new religion based on relevations from the Angel Gabriel given to Mohammad.Most of this new religion was based on the Old Testament....all the gory bits etc. But since the time of Jesus, they are no longer Christian teaching.
** ( Waraqa ben Nafal, and when he died, Mohammad said that he no longer received any more messages from God)**
Now in your searching for the facts re stoning, what did you find about ampuating of limbs for theft, or death to Gay's by throwing them from a height? And since then ( much more recent history in fact ) when Zia UlHaq introduced the Blasphemy Laws in Pakistan in 1980.....and death is the penalty for anyone found guilty. The case of Asia Bibi made world headlines, if you want to look it up. Ireland abolished its blasphemy laws in 2020 after a referendum held in 2018.

crooked cockney villain

enricoh wrote: »

Another real success story in court today- came here from Africa, tests positive for HIV, has unprotected sex with a couple of women and infects them.
Appealing his conviction, no mention of a deportation order.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-questions-lawyers-in-appeal-by-man-jailed-for-infecting-ex-partners-with-hiv-1147544.html

Imagine the outcry if a rugby player did this.

We exiled one because he sent a few crude texts.

enricoh

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Imagine the outcry if a rugby player did this.

We exiled one because he sent a few crude texts.

It's the wrong demographic for an outcry, move swiftly along nothing to see here.

Bobblehats

Ah that’s awful reading his victims are just vessels to a dirtbird like that; empty ones until they were left carrying his kids and became some the wiser.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

Indeed, was the culture here in Ireland until quite recently, I was in school with people whose parents were matched.

Bubblypop, the matchmaking in Ireland was completely unlike the arranged mariages in the middle east....In Ireland, a Family who had a son or daughter who wished to be married, would contact the local matchnmaker who would handle it. This matchmaker would be an expert on the history and genealogy of the parish, would know what was called "Breed Creed and Generation" of the families in his area, He would also have a very good knowledge of the wealth and status of each family..how much land, how many cattle etc. and most important, if there was any history of bad health, either physical or mental. After going through his books, he would bring a list of possible candidates to the parents of the person looking to get married. These candidates would have to be at least on the same social level as the requesting family. If a candidate was selected, then the Matchmaker would approach the family, and discussions would take place. If both Familys agreed, then the next step would follow,,the two candidates would be introduced to each other, and a courtship would begin.If all proved satisfactory, a wedding would take place, and the matchmaker would be paid his fee, plus when the first child was born, he was paid again. Back in those days , it was considered a completly normal process, and it worked well.
Now this is at a complete varience with a situation where a girl or boy will be told " You are getting married next week",, and I have seen this to happen. ( Which is not to say the marriage will not work out, in fact most of them work fine , but it can be abused)

Yep, many cultures have arranged marriages and many cultures do meet before the wedding, others do not.
I don't need you to tell me what arranged marriages were like in Ireland, as I said, I know people who were matched.
Including the parents of classmates of mine, twins, their father was 27 years older then their mother, who never even saw the man before she married him.
My own grandmother was told she was marrying a man the following month, but she ran away.

I'm not saying forced marriages are right, if course it's completely wrong to force people into marriage, I don't have an issue with arranged marriages though, if that's what people want.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, many cultures have arranged marriages and many cultures do meet before the wedding, others do not.
I don't need you to tell me what arranged marriages were like in Ireland, as I said, I know people who were matched.
Including the parents of classmates of mine, twins, their father was 27 years older then their mother, who never even saw the man before she married him.
My own grandmother was told she was marrying a man the following month, but she ran away.

All countries/cultures have a history of arranged marriages. The difference comes down to whether they still do so, or have moved on. Yes, Ireland did have arranged marriages until the 60s/70s, although it was dying out by then. However, the important part is that is was dying out as a practice.

Western culture, for the most part, has been moving away from traditional customs, and choosing instead to focus on the rights of the individual, even to the point of giving teenagers the ability to gain self-control if they desire it through legal means.

Islamic culture has gone the opposite way, reinforcing the importance of family, and the right of the males in a family to determine what happens to the children, regardless of their age. There is still a very strong culture of conformity within Islam, which makes it very difficult for anyone to oppose the wishes of their father.

You and others here keep trying to ignore progress. The last 50-60 years in western culture has seen huge social change. What social change have you seen in Islamic cultures?

I'm not saying forced marriages are right, if course it's completely wrong to force people into marriage, I don't have an issue with arranged marriages though, if that's what people want.

Neither do I. I know people who had arranged marriages... however, the culture behind the arranged marriage is important. I have Chinese friends who have since divorced from their arranged marriages, because the culture allowed the husband, or parents to be abusive towards the woman. Whereas I have other friends who had wonderful marriages and would advocate the benefits/advantages of it. In the past, the culture prevented women from gaining freedom, but now that culture has changed, and divorce is a valid option for many Chinese women (and the protections that the Chinese government have implemented for them).

But. The cultural rules the set the boundaries for the arranged marriage itself are important, especially when it involves the marriage of minors.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

And what about the bible?
The bible says pretty much the same things.
As a poster who says they know and are friends with many muslims, I find it unbelievable that you claim they all abide by the Qur'an, or believe such things.
You must know they don't. Same as Catholics believing the bible

Bubblypop, I have just replied to a post from Robbie, and in it I explained the links between the old testament and present day Islam. And believe me, present day Christianity is not remotely like the Old Testament. On the other hand, Islam is very much modelled on the Old Testament, especiall the gruesome punishments handed out for breaking the law. You have mentioned the Bible a lot, but how much do you actually know about it??? Especially when its obvious that you don't even know that there are two Testaments....the Old and the New Testament.
Yes Bubblypop...I have many Muslim friends, and am in contact with them regularly. I have lived and worked with Muslims of all shades of Islam,from the extremism of Saudi Wahabbism/ isis/ taleban to the Kosovo brand of Islam which is very liberal in its intrepretation of Islam. Do I think that any Muslim from Kosovo, will do me harm? No I do not. But Wahabbi s isis, taleban etc? Yes they would, no question. So the answer to your question is between the two.

John Doe1

John Doe1 wrote: »

But seriously, western society and Islam are incompatible and wokists have blood on their hands

I don't believe it is.

Europe has long had enclaves of Muslims living within it's borders, and have done so peacefully. What's changed is the populations of those living in Europe, and the loss of expectations that they are to keep quiet about their faith.

I have Muslim friends in Germany, who would keep their faith to themselves, and when outside their homes behave exactly the same as other Germans. They know that they're tolerated rather than accepted. I think that's an important distinction. This expectation that all religious/cultural groups, can express themselves and their beliefs publicly is what's changed in Europe, and what's bringing about a lot of the friction. With the expectation that to stop the friction, westerners need to change and accept other religious behaviors/customs/etc. Not that foreign groups adapt to living in Europe.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Especially when its obvious that you don't even know that there are two Testaments....the Old and the New Testament.

This is hilarious, are you actually serious?
Even though I am atheist now, I was unfortunately raised a Catholic, so yeah, I know-how many testaments there are in the bible.

I really don't understand how you can post all the time in anti Islam way, but yet say you're friends with Muslims, and moderate Muslims also. You post all the extreme and negative things about Muslims. It's very strange.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

This is hilarious, are you actually serious?
Even though I am atheist now, I was unfortunately raised a Catholic, so yeah, I know-how many testaments there are in the bible.

I really don't understand how you can post all the time in anti Islam way, but yet say you're friends with Muslims, and moderate Muslims also. You post all the extreme and negative things about Muslims. It's very strange.

And neither do I understand your negative way of posting about the Bible...especially the old testament, which finished more than two thousand years ago, yet to hear you talk about it, as if it was still relevant today, especially when it comes to the barbaric practices still carried out in the Islamic world..and you go " But its in the Bible too"
Nothing strange about it,,,for me, I make the distinction between the Muslim, the man, and the religion of Islam. I have a problem with a book which was written about 1'400 years ago, according to the life back then, murderous passages and all, ( even if they were taken from the Old Testament ) and the present time. Any constitution ( and not just Islam) which not only proposes but actualy encourages death and killing for violation of its rules / laws, is not for me.
And as for the arranged marriages, for some one who has esperience of the Irish version, I can't understand how you can equate it with the middle east and other country's versions. There is no comparison, and I have personal experience of the Irish version too.

RobbieTheRobber

John Doe1 wrote: »

Knife attack in Germany, it's probably one of those extremist Lutherans....

But seriously, western society and Islam are incompatible and wokists have blood on their hands

Yeah should they have woke guilt?

And you speak about the Qur'an as if all Muslims abide by every word, which they don't and.You know that if you are friends with moderate muslims.

I don't speak negatively about any religions holy books, it's all the same to me.

Sand

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yeah should they have woke guilt?

I don't think they can feel guilt, but to the extent they can they should acknowledge that they were warned repeatedly about the threats posed by open borders and mass migration to the indigenous people. Yet they still campaigned for it. And it is largely other people bearing the bloody burden for their idealogy.

jmreire

bubblypop wrote: »

And you speak about the Qur'an as if all Muslims abide by every word, which they don't and.You know that if you are friends with moderate muslims.

I don't speak negatively about any religions holy books, it's all the same to me.

I know that very well, but the fact is that the Quran gives the green light to those who want follow radical Islam. Hence we have violent attacks by jihadi's. And thats the part I have a problem with. But I have already mentioned that.

RobbieTheRobber

Sand wrote: »

I don't think they can feel guilt, but to the extent they can they should acknowledge that they were warned repeatedly about the threats posed by open borders and mass migration to the indigenous people. Yet they still campaigned for it. And it is largely other people bearing the bloody burden for their idealogy.

It was a play on the words white guilt but woosh...

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

And you speak about the Qur'an as if all Muslims abide by every word, which they don't and.You know that if you are friends with moderate muslims.

I don't speak negatively about any religions holy books, it's all the same to me.

Perhaps, it is all the same to you, but the truth is that the Quran is taken a lot more seriously by Muslims, than the Bible is, for the vast majority of Christians.

Islamic culture places great importance on the Quran. Sure, there are various interpretations, but look around at just about every Islamic nation, and they've all turned more traditional (as in a harder interpretation of the Quran) over time.

When Muslims consist of small numbers in a western nation (or spread out), there are few problems, because those Muslims are free to behave and worship as they wish, within the freedoms availed in Western nations. That's great. Would love to see more of that... however, as Muslim populations increase, there comes about a greater demand for conformity. That conformity is part of the Quran along with mainstream Islamic culture, and it is a conformity that encourages a return to traditional views.

That same conformity is what encourages Muslims to seek to enforce their values and taboos on to the local area. This can be seen in France, and a number of other European countries, where suburbs have been taken over and where local natives are forced to deal with those Islamic values, and behaviors. The last time we discussed this, I posted a variety of video interviews from French women, but I guess that's something to be ignored by you.

I get the desire to defend the average Muslim who just wants to work, raise their family, and get on with things. I know many Muslims just like that. Lovely people. Individually, and when with just their immediate families. At the same time though, I've seen how they change when a larger group is formed, and they conform to a cultural peer pressure, returning to the habits of their original countries. I've seen people who seemingly embraced western values and freedoms, do a complete U-turn after reaching a certain age, or when they got married, becoming devout Muslims, and spitting their contempt towards the western behaviors they previously lived by.

So... no.. #NotallMuslims... Shouldn't be a way to ignore what is happening in Europe, and that we do need to start dealing with these problems, before they erupt into violence. As opposed to expecting Westerners to adjust to accommodate Muslims.. rather than Muslims adjusting to accommodate Europeans.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps, it is all the same to you, but the truth is that the Quran is taken a lot more seriously by Muslims, than the Bible is, for the vast majority of Christians.

Islamic culture places great importance on the Quran. Sure, there are various interpretations, but look around at just about every Islamic nation, and they've all turned more traditional (as in a harder interpretation of the Quran) over time.

When Muslims consist of small numbers in a western nation (or spread out), there are few problems, because those Muslims are free to behave and worship as they wish, within the freedoms availed in Western nations. That's great. Would love to see more of that... however, as Muslim populations increase, there comes about a greater demand for conformity. That conformity is part of the Quran along with mainstream Islamic culture, and it is a conformity that encourages a return to traditional views.

That same conformity is what encourages Muslims to seek to enforce their values and taboos on to the local area. This can be seen in France, and a number of other European countries, where suburbs have been taken over and where local natives are forced to deal with those Islamic values, and behaviors. The last time we discussed this, I posted a variety of video interviews from French women, but I guess that's something to be ignored by you.

I get the desire to defend the average Muslim who just wants to work, raise their family, and get on with things. I know many Muslims just like that. Lovely people. Individually, and when with just their immediate families. At the same time though, I've seen how they change when a larger group is formed, and they conform to a cultural peer pressure, returning to the habits of their original countries. I've seen people who seemingly embraced western values and freedoms, do a complete U-turn after reaching a certain age, or when they got married, becoming devout Muslims, and spitting their contempt towards the western behaviors they previously lived by.

So... no.. #NotallMuslims... Shouldn't be a way to ignore what is happening in Europe, and that we do need to start dealing with these problems, before they erupt into violence. As opposed to expecting Westerners to adjust to accommodate Muslims.. rather than Muslims adjusting to accommodate Europeans.

And thats it in a nutshell. A friend of mine met and fell in love with a beautifull Ethiopian Muslim lady, and they planned to marry. She explained that she could not marry a non muslim, so he said that he was prepared to do whatever it took to marry her, but he would not convert to Islam, and only go through the motions on the day, and she agreed, so they wed. Fast forward 22 or 23 years, and they have two beautifull daughters, multilingual and in university. Then the wife dropped a bombshell....he could no longer be just a muslim in name, he had to go full out, the whole hog. Go to the mosque,learn the quran and become a full practicing Muslim. Or else. No discussion, or talk about what had been previously agreed. So now they are seperated, and he seems his daughters by appointment only. So after he gave 25 years of his life to her, paying the bills, solving all the day to day problems that come with raising a family, and that was his reward. Back to square one, but much older ( and wiser )

RulesOfNature

jmreire wrote: »

And thats it in a nutshell. A friend of mine met and fell in love with a beautifull Ethiopian Muslim lady, and they planned to marry. She explained that she could not marry a non muslim, so he said that he was prepared to do whatever it took to marry her, but he would not convert to Islam, and only go through the motions on the day, and she agreed, so they wed. Fast forward 22 or 23 years, and they have two beautifull daughters, multilingual and in university. Then the wife dropped a bombshell....he could no longer be just a muslim in name, he had to go full out, the whole hog. Go to the mosque,learn the quran and become a full practicing Muslim. Or else. No discussion, or talk about what had been previously agreed. So now they are seperated, and he seems his daughters by appointment only. So after he gave 25 years of his life to her, paying the bills, solving all the day to day problems that come with raising a family, and that was his reward. Back to square one, but much older ( and wiser )

Islam is truly incompatible with western Liberal society. It is anathema to a free and happy society. Too much dogma, too much conservatism, too much feudalistic traditions. On an individual level, I have no problem with Muslims, but on a macro-scale Islam is quite literally the ideological enemy of the west.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That same conformity is what encourages Muslims to seek to enforce their values and taboos on to the local area. This can be seen in France, and a number of other European countries, where suburbs have been taken over and where local natives are forced to deal with those Islamic values, and behaviors. The last time we discussed this, I posted a variety of video interviews from French women, but I guess that's something to be ignored by you.

I have friends and family that live in a so called 'no -go area' of an English city.
It's not at all go-to in reality. It's perfectly ok area, with many people of different backgrounds living in a majority Muslim area, there is no issue for anyone living there. So I don't just believe random videos on the internet, I'm a bit more sceptical of everything.

Don't for a second think I believe all Muslims are perfect, the opposite in fact. I believe no-one is perfect and everyone is capable of bad things. But I won't agree with bias against people based on a religion.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I have friends and family that live in a so called 'no -go area' of an English city.
It's not at all go-to in reality. It's perfectly ok area, with many people of different backgrounds living in a majority Muslim area, there is no issue for anyone living there. So I don't just believe random videos on the internet, I'm a bit more sceptical of everything.

Don't for a second think I believe all Muslims are perfect, the opposite in fact. I believe no-one is perfect and everyone is capable of bad things. But I won't agree with bias against people based on a religion.

Let's use a scenario. 10k people of the groups below move to wherever you live. You own your house, are in negative equity, children in school, whatever, and can't leave your local area. As time goes by, others are pushed out, leaving your family, and a few others behind, but mostly the area is operated by one of these groups, and while the mainstream laws are enforced, in reality, there's a lot of scope for extra rules/taboos to be applied.

Would you have a bias against Nazi's due to their belief in National Socialism and Adolf Hitler? Or a tiny bit of concern for Devil Worshippers who follow <whatever>? Or a wild congregation that has restarted one of the many faiths with a combination of militancy, and cultural superiority?

You still wouldn't care? No concern for the future, when that 10k becomes a common kind of enclave around all significant population centers?

Are you actually comparing Muslims and Nazis or devil worshippers?
Really need to up your scenarios game there now Klaz!I

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's use a scenario. 10k people of the groups below move to wherever you live. You own your house, are in negative equity, children in school, whatever, and can't leave your local area. As time goes by, others are pushed out, leaving your family, and a few others behind, but mostly the area is operated by one of these groups, and while the mainstream laws are enforced, in reality, there's a lot of scope for extra rules/taboos to be applied.

Would you have a bias against Nazi's due to their belief in National Socialism and Adolf Hitler? Or a tiny bit of concern for Devil Worshippers who follow <whatever>? Or a wild congregation that has restarted one of the many faiths with a combination of militancy, and cultural superiority?

You still wouldn't care? No concern for the future, when that 10k becomes a common kind of enclave around all significant population centers?

Let's just be normal here, let's imagine the area turns into a majority Polish area, or Chinese area of Russian area.
Do I care? No.
On the very off chance that a lot of devil worshippers took over the area I was living in, it would depend on what exactly their devil worshipping entailed, if they robbed my dog for ritual sacrifice, then I wouldn't be impressed, but if it involved sitting around in fancy dress looking like Marilyn Manson and chanting rubbish, then no I wouldn't care.