What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

seenitall

Deleted User wrote: »

This should be fun.

Ah hell klaz, I’ve been away, recharged my batteries a bit, and am ready for some cut and thrust in the depths of the old CA

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Why do you need to see a post from me with that specific line mike?
What is your hang up with that particular word you keep repeating?

If I use the word vile does something happen for you, do you win a bet?
It's really really weird.

The capital punishment of stoning is wrong.
I oppose the use of stoning as a form of capital punishment.
Stoning is bad, mkay Mike.

Chat later pal.

Look forward to it.


Moving on.

RobbieTheRobber

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

That, and his biggest problem, he called out someone (Justin Credible Darts IIRC) as.a racist for saying it was vile to stone someone despite them not mentioning religion, with Robbie going on to produce evidence of stoning in the bible.

So he's either a hypocrite or he's OK with stoning someone.

I didn't call JDC racist in any post this is not correct.
Why am I a hypocrite Mike?

enricoh

Seenitall, there's a better chance of Ireland winning the next world cup than the lads on the other side of the argument addressing your points!
Now you used the words massive amounts, let's try and fill up a page or two debating what this means instead!!

Wibbs

The "inferior cultures" part will get the cultural equivalence/all cultures are equal believers revved up that's for sure. We've increasingly thrown the baby out with the bathwater about judgement. It started and still mostly comes from a positive and welcome place of an attempt to make no judgements about cultures, people, lifestyles, gender, sexuality etc and that's good, but there does come a point where if you sit on the fence on everything too long it becomes a bit of a pain in the arse. It's also an extremely western construct and even in the west it's not always the majority view either.

And the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If cultures are mostly equivalent then why are the migrations only one way? Those in the developing and non western values world know the West is better for the most part than the cultures they're leaving. This can be seen throughout history too. There is the usual talk of Islam in debates like this, yet if this was the 10th century I would far prefer to live in Muslim Spain than Christian Germany(or pretty much anywhere else in Christian Europe), even if I identified as Christian. It was quite simply the superior culture on more than a few levels. China at the time was overall better too. And both were extremely protective of their advantages. Rightfully so.

RobbieTheRobber

seenitall wrote: »

So, proponents of a happy clappy, multi culti Europe:

What are your thoughts on these:

Consider the importation of a massive amount of people from places in Africa and Asia. The importation that has been going on, on a mass scale, since at least 2015, when it was basically a free for all for a while. Undocumented, unvetted, unknowable people, mostly young men, who due to the shambolic and politically way too sensitive reception and processing systems, were and are free to roam Europe as they please, occasionally setting fire to their accommodation if they don’t find it to standard or simply want to be moved on further north, occasionally raping a young woman or a young boy, occasionally going on a murdering spree, and so forth. Consider also that where they come from are usually places of an inferior culture to the western one, where women are treated as chattel, LGTB rights are non-existent and both the laws and the lawlessness tend to be intertwined with extreme violence.

Does the prospect of this importation raise any doubts with ye at all, I wonder, in relation to:

1) more or less “honour” killings ,

2) more, or less FGM,

3) more or less petty and violent crime

4) more or less ideology driven terrorist attacks (either Islamist or far-right ones)

5) more or less ghettoes and other places where native Europeans may just feel a tad unwelcome to set foot in, in their own countries

6) more or less pressure on European secular systems such as education to conform to other, non-European and (I repeat this as it’s a
very important point, which will only grow in importance hugely in the coming years, and you may have to have a good think
on ways of disputing it) vastly inferior, cultures’ expectations such as no pork in school canteens, no teaching of reproductive biology, no PE uniforms for girls etc

7)more or less security detail for Christmas markets, pop concerts, tourist attractions

8) more or less safety concerns for gay couples, women and young girls in the streets...

9) more or less grooming gangs, gang rapes and just gangs in general,

10) more or less inter-ethnic strife, and vigilantism,

in (Western) Europe in the next few decades?

What’s your best guess here? More or less of these? Or do you never consider this, maybe you forgot to consider it, or maybe you feel the answer to all those is a firm Less! I’d like to read some answers from people who are happy with this increasingly multi-cultural (Western) Europe and its fruits we have already seen the sproutings of. And because we have already seen them, and not just from recent arrivals, I think that sadly the answer is most definitely more, as how could it not be with a change on such a huge scale that is happening in the Western Europe. I don’t understand your reasoning, folks. It is very noble to think that every individual coming in has to be considered on their own merit, but it is not practical or feasible with the amount of people who are coming in daily or are on their way to Eldorado Europe as we speak. What gives? When is it ok to start generalising a tiny bit, just to save ourselves the hassle of trying to get rid of the masses of unwanted, unneeded and uninvited people from all corners of the globe, when is it ok to say: No more, thank you, we’re full up and the changes ye bring are fecking up our societies now and turning them into places similar to the places ye left, so - Desist?

This is a racist post.
There are no superior and inferior people to suggest such is wrong.

The suggestions made in this post that Asians and Africans are "vastly inferior" makes this a racist post.

Western culture and democracy are the superior cultural and governance system's in the world. It's history, it's innovation, it's laws, it's progression. It's not without it's issues now or in the past but it far surpasses anything else around.

Cordell

Wibbs wrote: »

And the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If cultures are mostly equivalent then why are the migrations only one way?

And why is the transfer of progress in science technology, medicine, society and so on the exact opposite way?

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

This is a racist post.
There are no superior and inferior people to suggest such is wrong.

The suggestions made in this post that Asians and Africans are "vastly inferior" makes this a racist post.

As I read it, it's not the people, it's the culture. Which is indeed "vastly inferior".

Wibbs

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

This is a racist post.
There are no superior and inferior people to suggest such is wrong.

The suggestions made in this post that Asians and Africans are "vastly inferior" makes this a racist post.

They wrote inferior cultures not people, or "races". That's a very different angle than the one you're taking from it. As an example, take India and Pakistan. Those folks from an Indian cultural background in western societies are more likely to be more educated, more employed and higher in the socioeconomic scale than those from Pakistan. Indeed they outperform local populations in general. The exact same "race", but different background cultures. In the US those migrants of a Scandinavian background did better on average than those of an Irish or Italian background. Same "race". Culture is not race, neither is religion. One can be culturalist without being racist.

Annasopra

Lol at the attempts to downplay the racist rant by claiming its just bigoted against culture.

Cordell

Annasopra wrote: »

Lol at the attempts to downplay the racist rant by claiming its just bigoted against culture.

If it's not the culture and it's not the people, then what is it?

storker

Annasopra wrote: »

Lol at the attempts to downplay the racist rant by claiming its just bigoted against culture.

What's more amusing is an inability to distinguish between the two.

Claiming that one culture is superior to another is also racist.

You may think you are part of a superior culture, which merely means that you believe others to be inferior. You can mess with language all you like, but the sentiment remains.

Also, making a list of things that have been done by foreigners and predicting the future based on blanket assumptions that future immigrants will also do those things is also racist.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Claiming that one culture is superior to another is also racist.

Even if it's true? Objectively true, as in people of culture A are living a better life than people of culture B?

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

Even if it's true? Objectively true, as in people of culture A are living a better life than people of culture B?

It is objectively true that one group of humans is better than another group of humans?

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Even if it's true? Objectively true, as in people of culture A are living a better life than people of culture B?

Who decides it's true?
It's a type of supremacy, believing that your culture is better then others.
Those people may think their culture is superior to yours, who is right?I

Or are they just different cultures? Ever hear of cultural relativism?

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

It is objectively true that one group of humans is better than another group of humans?

It depends. If one group is made of convicted pedophiles and the other is made of volunteer doctors then absolutely yes.
In other words, it's the culture, not the humans.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Who decides it's true?

As it happens, we decide that our culture is better and they agree because they choose to come here at great risk and expense. You know what, tell them, go to a DPC and tell them they made a mistake, the culture they ran out of is just as good as the culture here.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

As it happens, we decide that our culture is better and they agree because they choose to come here at great risk and expense. You know what, tell them, go to a DPC and tell them they made a mistake, the culture they ran out of is just as good as the culture here.

Any evidence to suggest it's the culture they are moving away from?

SchrodingersCat

storker wrote: »

What's more amusing is an inability to distinguish between the two.

What's even more amusing is the inability to see that the two have the same result: Cultural racism keeps our racist socialisation alive and continually reinforced through discrimination.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Any evidence to suggest it's the culture they are moving away from?

The very fact they are here and not there is the evidence that here is a better place, at least you agree on this, right?
Why is here a better place? Well, as I said, it's either the culture or the people. I think is the culture.

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

It depends. If one group is made of convicted pedophiles and the other is made of volunteer doctors then absolutely yes.
In other words, it's the culture, not the humans.

Can you find a single dictionary entry to support this absurd definition you have made up for culture?

Please provide a link when you have.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

The very fact they are here and not there is the evidence that here is a better place, at least you agree on this, right?
Why is here a better place? Well, as I said, it's either the culture or the people. I think is the culture.

No, it's no evidence of that, not even slightly.
There are many reasons to emigrate, not sure how high culture of home country is in the list.

Many people leave Ireland to live elsewhere, do you think they left because of the culture here?

seenitall

To me, as a woman, and I have to say, to most people I know IRL, it is self-evident and a matter of common sense that the cultures wherein something like FGM is considered a desirable state of affairs for a woman, or where some murders are awarded the epithet of “honour” (I could go on, but those two examples will suffice for now), are not only vastly inferior (oops, I said it again) to our cultures in the West, but that they are a dangerous and completely redundant element to be importing into this continent alongside the people who practice them. I don’t want Europe to continue doing that and I make no apologies about it.

Massive numbers means just that.

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/74670

In 2019, the estimate is of more than 100,000 “clandestine” arrivals - as I said, people-cyphers, all born on 1.1.1999 or what have you. I’ve met a few of them myself, here in Ireland. The knowledge of who exactly we have been let enter to roam the continent unimpeded is horrifically lacking, and remember we are talking of big numbers, so this is why things like bloody rampages on the strength of being denied asylum and finding god and what-not will keep happening. European governments are way too concerned with the “human rights” of non-Europeans they don’t know from Adam, and way less concerned with the “human rights”, of not being murdered in a random religious attack of an imported religion, of the actual indigenous Europeans. This has to change, and it will change, but in a far less reasonable way than if the changes were being firmly implemented right now. Because the change is so slow to come from the official channels it should be coming from, it will end up being facilitated from the less savoury sources and places, engendering more racism and division among the existing multi-ethnic communities along the way.

My home country is on one of these men’s routes to destination Germany/UK, so I read of the devastation that happens with the “Game” as the migrants themselves call it. Houses/second properties regularly broken into, stolen from, used and destroyed, sometimes arson, safety of rural folk threatened as you never know who you might meet on your sleepy rural road and what they might take a fancy to doing with their knife/machete/other all-rounder implement. They mostly don’t actually hurt the locals, as they just want to move on quickly, but are absolutely ruthless in taking what they need along the way, food, clothing, even cars have been stolen. Stabbings and murders amongst themselves are rather commonplace, though. The EU doesn’t want them but doesn’t want to do anything to stem the flow, either. At least, not anything vaguely efficient. So a lot of these criminals are congregating around the southern borders, til they get their chance at success in the Game. The toothless governments are just handing them back to each other in a gruesome, cynical game of their own (pass-the-parcel), however these men know it’s all a charade, no-one is actually going to stop them from getting to their desired destination. Even if it takes a few attempts.

It being summer, the “irregular” entries are at an all time high once again. The Canaries, Morocco, Greece, Malta, Italy, the Balkans. There is no end in sight, either in the numbers arriving or in any prospective deadline on putting a stop to this, of course.

If every year brings around 100,000 to Europe...get ready for Europe to keep changing, for sure. I can tell you that I already know I won’t like that change. If you think it’s cos I don’t like brown people, fine, doesn’t bother me, as I never mentioned skin colours once and it’s the cultures and the utterly unmanageable numbers of completely unknowable characters entering Europe that concern me.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

Claiming that one culture is superior to another is also racist.

Only if you believe culture is bound to race. In which case you're actually arguing for a racist worldview, because that's precisely how actual racists see things.

bubblypop wrote: »

Who decides it's true?
It's a type of supremacy, believing that your culture is better then others.
Those people may think their culture is superior to yours, who is right?I

Or are they just different cultures? Ever hear of cultural relativism?

Oh I have. It was a philosophical swing back from imperialistic European thought as that started to look indefensible. A good thing made of the best intentions, or at least that's how this kind of wishy washy non judgemental thinking starts out. The problem is it can also lead the the trap of low expectations.

As for who decides it's true? Well somebody has to. We judge(oh noes!) progress in a culture by comparison to others and to the past of one's own culture. Is 2020'a Irish culture objectively better for more people than 1940's Irish culture, when being Gay was illegal and a "sin", where women had fewer rights, no divorce, no SSM, no abortion rights? Is 2020's Spain's culture better than 1930's Spain? I could go full Godwin if you like. In your "relativist" world how do you square that circle? Or is this "relativism" only applicable to non Western, non White, non ostensibly "Christian" cultures? It's not very relativist at all then is it?

RobbieTheRobber

Cordell wrote: »

The very fact they are here and not there is the evidence that here is a better place, at least you agree on this, right?
Why is here a better place? Well, as I said, it's either the culture or the people. I think is the culture.

A place is not the people you have inferred something not provided evidence of it.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

No, it's no evidence of that, not even slightly.
There are many reasons to emigrate, not sure how high culture of home country is in the list.

Many people leave Ireland to live elsewhere, do you think they left because of the culture here?

They are leaving for other western cultures, aren't they?
Or they are leaving to places like Dubai for money, not for the quality of life.
But they are not running, they are not crossing the waters in makeshift boats.

Cordell

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

A place is not the people you have inferred something not provided evidence of it.

A place is made better (or worse) by the people that live there.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Only if you believe culture is bound to race. In which case you're actually arguing for a racist worldview, because that's precisely how actual racists see things.

Oh I have. It was a philosophical swing back from imperialistic European thought as that started to look indefensible. A good thing made of the best intentions, or at least that's how this kind of wishy washy non judgemental thinking starts out. The problem is it can also lead the the trap of low expectations.

As for who decides it's true? Well somebody has to. We judge(oh noes!) progress in a culture by comparison to others and to the past of one's own culture. Is 2020'a Irish culture objectively better for more people than 1940's Irish culture, when being Gay was illegal and a "sin", where women had fewer rights, no divorce, no SSM, no abortion rights? Is 2020's Spain's culture better than 1930's Spain? I could go full Godwin if you like. In your "relativist" world how do you square that circle? Or is this "relativism" only applicable to non Western, non White, non ostensibly "Christian" cultures? It's not very relativist at all then is it?

No. I never said culture is bound to race. Supremacy is a type of racism. As you well know.

No, no-one has to judge. Why would they? It's not your place to judge how someone lives their life is it?
No idea where you come up with relativism only being applicable to non western cultures? I never suggested anything like that. s

Of course, when it comes to illegal activities the law will judge. As it right and fair