What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

You said the best culture is the culture that brought about human rights, so I'm asking you, when did human rights start? What culture brough about human rights?

It is not relevant for this discussion who brought them on a good while ago, what is important is who respects them. And that is us in the western culture.

Or you will be like: now you behead people for blasphemy but that's grand, a millennia ago your culture was superior.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

It is not relevant for this discussion who brought them on a good while ago, what is important is who respects them. And that is us in the western culture.

Or you will be like: now you behead people for blasphemy but that's grand, a millennia ago your culture was superior.

Lol!
You bring up a subject and then you decide it's not relevant.
Hilarious

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

More who are conflating people and "races" with culture. I thought that was verboten? Ad for good reasons. Though they are obviously coming from very different places I have long held the view that in one respect the right on and the right wing have one thing in common; they're both completely obsessed with "race" and skin colour and both label people accordingly just from a different angle. Ironies all over the place.

On a university discussion board I was once part of, it was declared that criticism of any group was racist, and the targets' actual race or the size of the group didn't matter.

Yet the very people who made that declaration regularly made quite shocking criticisms and insults of groups like the (UK) police the police or Americans in general and other pet targets of the "politically correct". I pointed out that such utterances were racist by the contributors' own definition, but strangely, I never got a response.

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

And how did such laws come about? relativism debates? No. They came about because cultures made judgements and pretty damned strident ones that said nope this is an inferior way of thinking and doing and we must enact rules against such thinking and doing to make a better, more superior society.

Imagine if in the 19th century, the northern U.S. states had said "It's not for us to judge the culture of slavery in the south. Their culture is just as good as ours. To say otherwise would be supremacist."

storker

storker wrote: »

Yet the very people who made that declaration regularly made quite shocking criticisms and insults of groups like the (UK) police the police or Americans in general and other pet targets of the "politically correct". I pointed out that such utterances were racist by the contributors' own definition, but strangely, I never got a response.

Because "common sense" was replaced with "double standards". These would be the same people who don't believe that reverse racism is still racism..

RobbieTheRobber

storker wrote: »

On a university discussion board I was once part of, it was declared that criticism of any group was racist, and the targets' actual race or the size of the group didn't matter.

Yet the very people who made that declaration regularly made quite shocking criticisms and insults of groups like the (UK) police the police or Americans in general and other pet targets of the "politically correct". I pointed out that such utterances were racist by the contributors' own definition, but strangely, I never got a response.

Cool story bro.

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

Lol!
You bring up a subject and then you decide it's not relevant.
Hilarious

The subject is relevant, the side subject you keep going on about isn't. The subject I brought up and your question have nothing in common.

You're trying everything but admitting that 3rd word cultures don't respect human rights.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

The subject is relevant, the side subject you keep going on about isn't. The subject I brought up and your question have nothing in common.

You're trying everything but admitting that 3rd word cultures don't respect human rights.

I was never asked to admit that 3rd world countries don't respect human rights. There are many countries that do not respect human rights, I'm well aware of that, and I don't agree with their stance.

You, stated that you believe the culture that created human rights is the best culture, but when asked about that, that's not relevant.
I'm starting to think perhaps your posts are not relevant.

RobbieTheRobber

storker wrote: »

Imagine if in the 19th century, the northern U.S. states had said "It's not for us to judge the culture of slavery in the south. Their culture is just as good as ours. To say otherwise would be supremacist."

Imagine all the people....

Cordell

bubblypop wrote: »

I was never asked to admit that 3rd world countries don't respect human rights. There are many countries that do not respect human rights, I'm well aware of that, and I don't agree with their stance.

You, stated that you believe the culture that created human rights is the best culture, but when asked about that, that's not relevant.
I'm starting to think perhaps your posts are not relevant.

Alright then, is the culture that respects the human rights the most superior to all others?

Wibbs

Cordell wrote: »

Alright then, is the culture that respects the human rights the most superior to all others?

It's a question that can't be answered if relativism is one's starting position. To do so would render that starting position moot and some acknowledgement of how shaky a position it is. So goalposts have to be shifted at high speed to avoid answering, usually and ironically by bringing in cultural subjectivism where no "blame" can be apportioned to anyone and "judgement" is to be studiously avoided. I can certainly understand relativism of this nature as a genuine philosophical debate and the post modernists ran with it and fair enough, however it's best left to college campuses and after drinks debate as the practical application of it runs into the paucity of its precepts pretty damned quickly. As we've observed.

Cordell

TBH I will accept the cultural relativism answer and move on, but I sense another deflection coming

I can certainly understand relativism of this nature as a genuine philosophical debate

But this is not one of those, here we're trying to determine if the immigration from certain cultures presents any danger for Europe. Or, since the danger has already presented itself, we're trying to get at least some agreement that it was a mistake.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

But this is not one of those, here we're trying to determine if the immigration from certain cultures presents any danger for Europe. Or, since the danger has already presented itself, we're trying to get at least some agreement that it was a mistake.

European culture has generally and not without a wobble, been on a positive trajectory of enlightenment, human rights, freedom of sexual expression, equality, tolerance, welfare provisions over the past few hundred years.

If you're excusing any of the negative issues arising from multiculturalism and cultures with very different values as
'relativism', you have to wonder why that person would see several hundred years of progress being undermined so readily.

Looks like Macron is in real trouble in France, will be interesting to see if he can turn it around before next years presidential election.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like Macron is in real trouble in France, will be interesting to see if he can turn it around before next years presidential election.

How is Le Pen and her racist party doing?

To quote the BBC, the headline today could be any one of.

Was it disappointment for Marine?
Was it Macron's failure?
Was it centre-right poised for presidential challenge?
Was it Socialists and Greens show left-wing vote still strong?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57546011

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

How is Le Pen and her racist party doing?

To quote the BBC, the headline today could be any one of.



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57546011

Why are you so angry? It's bad for Macron because he is the President and the major player not just in France but probably the EU at this stage..

Le Pen is just a challenger who will probably never have enough support to get over the line. Your obsession with seeing racism everywhere isn't healthy.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you so angry? It's bad for Macron because he is the President and the major player not just in France but probably the EU at this stage..

Le Pen is just a challenger who will probably never have enough support to get over the line. Your obsession with seeing racism everywhere isn't healthy.

I'm not angry Peter. I'm happy. Every time a racist party is shown up at elections I'm happy.
Ms Le Pen and her bunch of racist had been expected to at least win a district in France they have won none.

Vive le France!

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like Macron is in real trouble in France, will be interesting to see if he can turn it around before next years presidential election.

One of the biggest takeaways I see from that vote is less about the results, but more about the tiny number of voters who bothered to vote at all. The pandemic has likely something to do with it, but that's not a good look for French democracy, nor people's enthusiasm for it.

As for the vote itself the winner has been the Republicans, a centre right party at 27%, followed by National Rally a far right party with 19%, the centre left and left parties are a good bit behind at 11%. Of those who bothered enough to vote it's about an even split, but there does seem to be a swing to the right of centre.

Yes, the turnout was shocking and isn't good for democracy.
I'd vote in every election no matter how bad I felt the candidates on offer were, I think it's vitally important.

Maybe the French are completely disillusioned with it all.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, the turnout was shocking and isn't good for democracy.
I'd vote in every election no matter how bad I felt the candidates on offer were, I think it's vitally important.

Maybe the French are completely disillusioned with it all.

Should we expect the same disillusionment to happen at the next Irish general election.
And expect for similarly low turnouts?

I thought we'd be ok in Ireland with participation rates but I've just checked the turnout at the last election and I'm seeing 62.9%. That's very disappointing.

I can't understand why almost 40% of people wouldn't vote, even if you hate them all equally, spoil your vote or something.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, the turnout was shocking and isn't good for democracy.
I'd vote in every election no matter how bad I felt the candidates on offer were, I think it's vitally important.

Maybe the French are completely disillusioned with it all.

Dunno much about French politics, but with Irish politics, TBH I rarely vote for any of the existing parties. I don't see any substantial difference between them, and I don't trust them to represent the issues I care about. I've seen too many parties promise various agendas, and then do everything but that, once they get into power.

I suspect that there's many people similar to myself when it comes to voting and politics. We don't trust our politicians, and voting them in incurs a responsibility for what they do while in power. Yes, I know the flip side argument about not voting, but it doesn't change my views. (As for spoiling my vote, TBH it's not something I've ever considered... hmm.. something to think about)

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Dunno much about French politics, but with Irish politics, TBH I rarely vote for any of the existing parties. I don't see any substantial difference between them, and I don't trust them to represent the issues I care about. I've seen too many parties promise various agendas, and then do everything but that, once they get into power.

I suspect that there's many people similar to myself when it comes to voting and politics. We don't trust our politicians, and voting them in incurs a responsibility for what they do while in power. Yes, I know the flip side argument about not voting, but it doesn't change my views. (As for spoiling my vote, TBH it's not something I've ever considered... hmm.. something to think about)

I'm basically on the exact same page as you. I find that none of them really represent me on issues that I find important, one of the major ones being immigration. I usually find someone though that I can vote for, more often than not an independent candidate who might be focusing on one or two smaller specific issues.

I've stated it before but Macron wouldn't be someone who appeals to me on a whole number of levels but if we had a politician in Ireland who had similar proposals on immigration that he has put forward they would receive my vote.

Spoiling your vote is pointless.
It might raise a smile at the polling centre, but thats it.

(In Ireland)
Vote for those you hate the least if there's no one you like. Let your vote do as much damage as you can, if not support for a candidate.


These were regional assemblies, probably about as useful as our own.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought we'd be ok in Ireland with participation rates but I've just checked the turnout at the last election and I'm seeing 62.9%. That's very disappointing.

And wasn't it the first Saturday vote to allow students etc. vote.
No doubt the covids played a part, but there is something wrong with democracy if people can't be ars3d voting

RobbieTheRobber

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

And wasn't it the first Saturday vote to allow students etc. vote.
No doubt the covids played a part, but there is something wrong with democracy if people can't be ars3d voting

Yeah is western democracy on the decline Peter?

MikeOxsgreen

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

No doubt the covids played a part, but there is something wrong with democracy if people can't be ars3d voting

TBF, there's plenty wrong with democracy.

The fact that FF continue to exist as a party after all the shenanigans they've been involved in, even just during my lifetime (mid 40s), reinforces the impression that democracy is really messed up. The Banking crash, the completely useless and incredibly expensive tribunals, and the total lack of accountability proved that to me.

It's all a game for the politicians, one in which they've had decades to slowly shift the rules to be in their favor.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yeah is western democracy on the decline Peter?

Hopefully not but it doesn't feel as healthy as it should to me
It's a very deep question Freedom House lists 84 countries in the world as "free" which would mean the majority are not free in some sense..

MikeOxsgreen

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Spoiling your vote is pointless.
It might raise a smile at the polling centre, but thats it.

(In Ireland)
Vote for those you hate the least if there's no one you like. Let your vote do as much damage as you can, if not support for a candidate.


These were regional assemblies, probably about as useful as our own.

That's true as well about voting down the list, I've made a personal choice though to never vote for a Sinn Fein candidate, even if it is the last preference. It's just a personal thing with me, I understand younger people are turning to them now and I understand why but for me, I'll never write any number after one of their candidates. I also have no interest in debating that and I'm sure they're not worried about never receiving my vote anyway

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, the turnout was shocking and isn't good for democracy.
I'd vote in every election no matter how bad I felt the candidates on offer were, I think it's vitally important.

Maybe the French are completely disillusioned with it all.

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought we'd be ok in Ireland with participation rates but I've just checked the turnout at the last election and I'm seeing 62.9%. That's very disappointing.

I can't understand why almost 40% of people wouldn't vote, even if you hate them all equally, spoil your vote or something.

Deleted User wrote: »

Dunno much about French politics, but with Irish politics, TBH I rarely vote for any of the existing parties. I don't see any substantial difference between them, and I don't trust them to represent the issues I care about. I've seen too many parties promise various agendas, and then do everything but that, once they get into power.

I suspect that there's many people similar to myself when it comes to voting and politics. We don't trust our politicians, and voting them in incurs a responsibility for what they do while in power. Yes, I know the flip side argument about not voting, but it doesn't change my views. (As for spoiling my vote, TBH it's not something I've ever considered... hmm.. something to think about)

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm basically on the exact same page as you. I find that none of them really represent me on issues that I find important, one of the major ones being immigration. I usually find someone though that I can vote for, more often than not an independent candidate who might be focusing on one or two smaller specific issues.

I've stated it before but Macron wouldn't be someone who appeals to me on a whole number of levels but if we had a politician in Ireland who had similar proposals on immigration that he has put forward they would receive my vote.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Spoiling your vote is pointless.
It might raise a smile at the polling centre, but thats it.

(In Ireland)
Vote for those you hate the least if there's no one you like. Let your vote do as much damage as you can, if not support for a candidate.


These were regional assemblies, probably about as useful as our own.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

And wasn't it the first Saturday vote to allow students etc. vote.
No doubt the covids played a part, but there is something wrong with democracy if people can't be ars3d voting

Deleted User wrote: »

TBF, there's plenty wrong with democracy.

The fact that FF continue to exist as a party after all the shenanigans they've been involved in, even just during my lifetime (mid 40s), reinforces the impression that democracy is really messed up. The Banking crash, the completely useless and incredibly expensive tribunals, and the total lack of accountability proved that to me.

It's all a game for the politicians, one in which they've had decades to slowly shift the rules to be in their favor.

Deleted User wrote: »

That's true as well about voting down the list, I've made a personal choice though to never vote for a Sinn Fein candidate, even if it is the last preference. It's just a personal thing with me, I understand younger people are turning to them now and I understand why but for me, I'll never write any number after one of their candidates. I also have no interest in debating that and I'm sure they're not worried about never receiving my vote anyway

What is the link to the thread topic?
Honestly I'm not seeing it.