What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ah mike honestly go back and read my posts. You are trying to claim I am saying the exact opposite of what I'm saying in my posts.

Are you attempting to gaslight me?

I mean you have quoted my post where I dispute wibbs definition provided and you're saying I acknowledged it.

Yes I acknowledged it wasn't a good definition. It's in the post you quoted

Ah lad, you're posting style is a mess of misplaced clichés, incoherent and contradictory.

You quoted his definition of multiculturalism which didn't include racism, and then asked goaded him to provide a definition of multiculturalism that included racism in the definition.


I'd be a strawman if you claimed I said you agreed with it!
- you're welcome!

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure that children can be individually multicultural. Biracial, maybe? Which would certainly open them up to racist abuse, which is abhorrent. And no, is not their fault, at all.

I myself am bi-cultural have said so on this thread. My wife is from a third country.

So anyway racism is a constituent part of their state of being at least according to wibbs definition and his clarification.

So they are both not responsible for racism they receive but also racism is a constituent part of their being?

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually I have repeatedly stated that racism is a constituent part and one of the major disadvantages of multiculturalism.

From the horse's mouth!

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Ah lad, you're posting style is a mess of misplaced clichés, incoherent and contradictory.

You quoted his definition of multiculturalism which didn't include racism, and then asked goaded him to provide a definition of multiculturalism that included racism in the definition.


I'd be a strawman if you claimed I said you agreed with it!
- you're welcome!

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I myself am bi-cultural have said so on this thread. My wife is from a third country.

So anyway racism is a constituent part of their state of being at least according to wibbs definition and his clarification.

So they are both not responsible for racism they receive but also racism is a constituent part of their being?

No he didn't.
You know it and we all know it.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ah klaz more of the personal opinion stuff. China has a huge problem with racism deny all you want but as usual you wont provide a link to support.

Over a decade living there.. I think that qualifies as a useful opinion. However, as usual, you misrepresent what was written. I didn't deny that racism happened in China, nor did I seek to downplay it.

You're not very good at nuance, or any kind of subtlety in language, are you?

What's the percentage of Africans in the country, and whats the excuse going to be for blackface and how Africans were treated during covid?

haha.. You don't get it, do you? I said that most Chinese people were ignorant of other racial and cultural groups. In that ignorance, racism occurs. And that there are people with both nationalistic or cultural superiority.. To add something new, the CCP are very focused on their nationality/race (Chinese) being important, and institutionalized racism is commonplace.

You have, once again, shown your inability to read (and appreciate) what others have posted.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

If they are a person of colour and receive racist abuse for the colour of their skin how should the integrate. A bottle of bleach?

Multiethnic and multicultural are not synonyms, though.

So far as I see it, multiethnic society is one into which people of any ethnicity migrate and do their best to follow the "when in Rome" rule, and assimilate to the culture of the place to which they've moved. They may bring some parts of their culture with them, such as different foods and elements of pop culture, and those things that the local population take a liking to may be assimilated into the dominant culture in the way that the chicken balti has become a Saturday night post-pub staple in the UK, to use a borderline facetious example.

A multicultural society, on the other hand, is one into which people of any ethnicity migrate and bring their culture with them, often resisting assimilation to the dominant culture and seeking out people who share their culture (and often their ethnicity) in order to preserve it.

In either case, culture is an ever-evolving, amorphous thing that changes over time. But it appears that multicultural societies foster a sort of cultural protectionism which, rather than permitting assimilation of the positive elements of minority culture into the dominant culture (and thereby shifting the (shared) monoculture to be more amenable to every ethnicity therein and increasing the familiarity and harmony between ethnicities), they end up throwing out concepts such as "cultural appropriation", where a sampling or celebration of a culture that is not "one's own" is seen as an affront, rather than as progress toward a more harmonious shared culture.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

From the horse's mouth!




:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Exactly
That's not a definition.

Hallelujah , after how many pages?
Your contradictions have finally caught up on you.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Over a decade living there.. I think that qualifies as a useful opinion. However, as usual, you misrepresent what was written. I didn't deny that racism happened in China, nor did I seek to downplay it.

You're not very good at nuance, or any kind of subtlety in language, are you?



haha.. You don't get it, do you? I said that most Chinese people were ignorant of other racial and cultural groups. In that ignorance, racism occurs. And that there are people with both nationalistic or cultural superiority.. To add something new, the CCP are very focused on their nationality/race (Chinese) being important, and institutionalized racism is commonplace.

You have, once again, shown your inability to read (and appreciate) what others have posted.

No evidence needed just throw out the insults. Fair play Klaz!

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I myself am bi-cultural have said so on this thread. My wife is from a third country.

So anyway racism is a constituent part of their state of being at least according to wibbs definition and his clarification.

So they are both not responsible for racism they receive but also racism is a constituent part of their being?

Well I'm not Irish, but I live in Ireland and had children in Ireland with an Irish national.

My children are not multicultural. They're technically half one nationality and half another. They encounter another (admittedly very similar) culture through one of their parents being not-Irish, and they encounter it when we travel to visit my family. But my children are Irish children. And, I would argue, so are yours?

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

No evidence needed just throw out the insults. Fair play Klaz!

What insults? :rolleyes:

I mean, I doubt very much you're all that bothered when I say that you don't read others posts, because, "the proof is in the pudding". You do misrepresent others posts... which can be seen repeatedly over the last three pages.

As for "evidence", you responded to my post.. quoting me and then, misrepresenting what was said. That's evidence, in itself. Which I know, you will never acknowledge, or accept. That's just the way things are with your manner of posting to this thread.

In any case, I didn't quote you. My post was directed for others to read, since I have no interest in chasing you (anymore) for any kind of direct answer. I've tried that a few times already, and.. meh. Not worth the effort.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I'm not Irish, but I live in Ireland and had children in Ireland with an Irish national.

My children are not multicultural. They're technically half one nationality and half another. They encounter another (admittedly very similar) culture through one of their parents being not-Irish, and they encounter it when we travel to visit my family. But my children are Irish children. And, I would argue, so are yours?

Wibbs would argue against you. He has against me on this issue already when I declared my children Irish in the past.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wibbs would argue against you. He has against me on this issue already when I declared my children Irish in the past.

Well alright but I'm not talking to Wibbs.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Well alright but I'm not talking to Wibbs.

What Makes You “Multicultural”



Summary.
Individual people can be multicultural in three different (albeit inter-related) ways: they can have deep knowledge of, they can identify with, and they can have internalized more than one culture. This article delves into those three aspects of being multicultural and describes what benefits can accrue from each of them.

https://hbr.org/2019/12/what-makes-you-multicultural

john123470

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All cultures have degrees of racism, because racism is a human condition due to our tribal attitudes that have not gone away over time. In spite of all the campaigning about racism, I've yet to see any definite plan with specific methods of removing racism entirely. Sure, it's an admirable goal, but it remains a vague objective, without any real consideration that it's very unlikely to ever be fulfilled.

So true

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. Spot on.

No matter how patient a poster is, the end result is the same. "Frustration and a growing feeling of pointlessness"..

1. pointlessness - total lack of meaning or ideas. inanity, mindlessness, senselessness, vacuity. meaninglessness - the quality of having no value or significance.

Kaybaykwah

Why does the mudslinging continue unabated on this thread?

Personal attacks, insults, overreaching judgements. Nothing good comes of it.

Good Lord and all of heaven's angels.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

https://hbr.org/2019/12/what-makes-you-multicultural

It's sort of a flimflammy article that fails to really define "individual multiculturalism" beyond a person's ability to operate in another culture through things like learning an additional language and so on.

I can speak three languages and I have lived most of my adult life in a culture I was not born into. I don't think that makes me "multicultural" as an individual. It just makes me an individual, with different experiences to other individuals. If you'll forgive me for saying so, this article on the "multicultural individual" seems like a grasp by this "six-person international team representing 16 cultures" to capitalise on the multicultural "moment".

It would come down to a matter of semantics, but I personally reject the notion of the individual as a multicultural entity.

Mic 1972

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I'm fine with that argument.
People from other cultures are welcome to join as long as they integrate, which means become part of the local culture

Does that mean abandon their own culture and take up the local one?
Or what do you mean by integrate?

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

In any case, I didn't quote you. My post was directed for others to read, since I have no interest in chasing you (anymore) for any kind of direct answer. I've tried that a few times already, and.. meh. Not worth the effort.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117542268&postcount=9566

You did quote me!
And you did insult me! :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

You have, once again, shown your inability to read (and appreciate) what others have posted.

Mic 1972

bubblypop wrote: »

Does that mean abandon their own culture and take up the local one?
Or what do you mean by integrate?

if a large number of people from a specific foreign culture move to another country and don't integrate, they are going to create ghettos and subcultures that clash with the nation's culture.

it's been done before, it doesnt work

So, to answer your question, if you move to another country you are expected to understand and apply the cultural rules of such country.

RobbieTheRobber

Mic 1972 wrote: »

if a large number of people from a specific foreign culture move to another country and don't integrate, they are going to create ghettos and subcultures that clash with the nation's culture.

it's been done before, it doesnt work

So, to answer your question, if you move to another country you are expected to understand and apply the cultural rules of such country.

IF
IF
IF
Then x happen
Then x happens.


supposition:
a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis.

Mic 1972

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

IF
IF
IF
Then x happen
Then x happens.


supposition:
a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis.

You can replace IF with WHEN, if/when you prefer


Every population has its distinctive culture, we as European understand that very well when we travel to other countries as we educate ourselves before traveling often to avoid getting into trouble. Why is it wrong to expect the same from foreign immigrants?

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

1. pointlessness - total lack of meaning or ideas. inanity, mindlessness, senselessness, vacuity. meaninglessness - the quality of having no value or significance.

Robbie, discussing anything with you is frustrating because you rarely, if ever, answer anything directly, often misrepresent what was posted, and constantly shift goalposts. As that frustration grows, there is the reaisation that discussions with you are pointless, because they lead nowhere.

Enough. As usual, this is going nowhere, and likely will lead to me getting warned by the mods.

RobbieTheRobber

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117542268&postcount=9566

You did quote me!
And you did insult me! :rolleyes:

haha.. I posted about China without quoting you.. and responded to your misrepresenting of what I'd written.

Forget it. You obviously don't see the irony in your own posts.

[yup, I won't be continuing any of this]

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Robbie, discussing anything with you is frustrating because you rarely, if ever, answer anything directly, often misrepresent what was posted, and constantly shift goalposts. As that frustration grows, there is the reaisation that discussions with you are pointless, because they lead nowhere.

Enough. As usual, this is going nowhere, and likely will lead to me getting warned by the mods.

Nice chatting with you too Klaz!

Wibbs

Mic 1972 wrote: »

So, to answer your question, if you move to another country you are expected to understand and apply the cultural rules of such country.

But... cultures are relative Mic. None are superior to others, no matter it seems how extremely dodgy any number could be described.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

No evidence needed just throw out the insults. Fair play Klaz!

You are solidly determined to find, or rather accuse insult. This has also been part of the playbook of some of the multiculturalist camp. In the past on this thread it's been a Hail Mary plea to have dissenting positions quietened, especially those for which answers aren't so readily dismissed. The "racist" tag another more obvious one. Again and I can only speak for me, there is no insult or aggression aimed at you, merely the frustration of a debate at times that feels like herding cats.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wibbs would argue against you. He has against me on this issue already when I declared my children Irish in the past.

Please quote my post(s) in full on the matter. I want to make very sure I'm not being misrepresented. God forbid that might happen...

RobbieTheRobber

Mic 1972 wrote: »

if a large number of people from a specific foreign culture move to another country and don't integrate, they are going to create ghettos and subcultures that clash with the nation's culture.

it's been done before, it doesnt work

So, to answer your question, if you move to another country you are expected to understand and apply the cultural rules of such country.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

You can replace IF with WHEN, if/when you prefer


Every population has its distinctive culture, we as European understand that very well when we travel to other countries as we educate ourselves before traveling often to avoid getting into trouble. Why is it wrong to expect the same from foreign immigrants?

No!

IF a large number of people from a specific foreign culture
IF move to another country
IF and don't integrate
THEN they are going to create ghettos
THEN subcultures that clash with the nation's culture.

It's a giant big fallacy of a post!

Mic 1972

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

No!

IF a large number of people from a specific foreign culture
IF move to another country
IF and don't integrate
THEN they are going to create ghettos
THEN subcultures that clash with the nation's culture.

It's a giant big fallacy of a post!

I wish it was, unfortunately that's what happens and what's is being observed in so-called multi cultural countries

RobbieTheRobber

Wibbs wrote: »

But... cultures are relative Mic. None are superior to others, no matter it seems how extremely dodgy any number could be described.

You are solidly determined to find, or rather accuse insult. This has also been part of the playbook of some of the multiculturalist camp. In the past on this thread it's been a Hail Mary plea to have dissenting positions quietened, especially those for which answers aren't so readily dismissed. The "racist" tag another more obvious one. Again and I can only speak for me, there is no insult or aggression aimed at you, merely the frustration of a debate at times that feels like herding cats.

Please quote my post(s) in full on the matter. I want to make very sure I'm not being misrepresented. God forbid that might happen...

Ah stop will you with the multicultural camp nonsense.
I am a single poster. I am not other posters.
Don't try to insult me by throwing around general insults at the "multicultural camp".

I'm not other posters so don't quote me then pretend to insult some imagined made up group. :rolleyes:

Really disappointed in the anti immigrant group in this thread. All that's left is ad hominems and insults.

Mic 1972

Wibbs wrote: »

But... cultures are relative Mic. None are superior to others, no matter it seems how extremely dodgy any number could be described.

I agree with that, cultures are cultures, none is better or worse. I went through my fare share of struggle myself when i moved to Ireland 20 years ago from another European country.
It is what it is, integration is part of the game. People are a lot more open to you and your culture once you integrate with the local reality