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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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    #9632
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    This is parody level stuff :pac:

    :)
    It is a question mike. Are you deflecting and avoiding the question?


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    #9633
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    :)
    It is a question mike. Are you deflecting and avoiding the question?

    I refuse to answer such a ridiculous question. The fact that you resort to such cheap tactics, instead of addressing the point I was making, reveals a lot.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #9634
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I can't see any issue with anybody not agreeing with that man. I don't agree with him.
    I can't change his mind, but there are bigots everywhere in this world unfortunately.
    Neither do I believe he is somehow a speaker for all Muslim people.
    Not do I believe what he is saying can somehow be claimed as culture of 1.8 billion people.

    Ye because middle east is known for being a hotbed of progressive rights for the gay/ LGBT /women's community .... Lol .


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    #9635
    john123470
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    Annasopra wrote: »
    The Polish and Hungarian idea of monocultarism is to attack Womens/LGBT/Migrant/Refugee rights

    The Polish / Hungarian idea of monoculturalism is to not add to their troubles by importing more .. such as the above

    - Muslims giving their verdict on Pride and the role of women to Sky News.
    Double bigotry in one sentence -

    "Multicultularism", the Musical.
    A well 'diluted' culture in full swing. Lols

    You will have no problem with this carry on, i take it


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    #9636
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I refuse to answer such a ridiculous question. The fact that you resort to such cheap tactics, instead of addressing the point I was making, reveals a lot.

    What is the point mike.
    Do you think we should strip religious freedom from people in Ireland so that they cannot practise their religion.
    Or maybe should we stifle free speech so people like the UK Muslim in your video recorded in the UK cannot say things like he said in the UK in Ireland?


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    #9637
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    john123470 wrote: »
    The Polish / Hungarian idea of monoculturalism is to not add to their troubles by importing more .. such as the above

    - Muslims giving their verdict on Pride and the role of women to Sky News.
    Double bigotry in one sentence -

    "Multicultularism", the Musical.
    A well 'diluted' culture in full swing. Lols

    You will have no problem with this carry on, i take it

    Are gay Polish People not Polish?


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    #9638
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    You are making a rather silly assumption that racist people are rational or their beliefs need to be supported by any science. Lol

    Can you be more explicit about where you are seeing that assumption in my post?


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    #9639
    john123470
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I can't see any issue with anybody not agreeing with that man. I don't agree with him.
    I can't change his mind, but there are bigots everywhere in this world unfortunately.
    Neither do I believe he is somehow a speaker for all Muslim people.
    Not do I believe what he is saying can somehow be claimed as culture of 1.8 billion people.

    The official fiction in the Middle east is that homosexuality doesn't exist.
    You can be put to death for sodomy in Saudi, Yemen, Sudan and Mauritania.

    Sure, try practising your homosexuality openly in a Muslim community but watch your back


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    #9640
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well the linked explainer contains the handy sentence "At its core, cultural racism is a form of racism (that is, a structurally unequal practice) that relies on cultural differences rather than on biological markers of racial superiority or inferiority."

    Which is to say: it is not racism by any definition anyone actually uses.
    Indeed. Now while I can certainly see how cultural discrimination can be in effect, by definition it can't be racist as culture is separate to race, or at least if someone was to suggest they were bound together they would be accused of racism and rightfully so. Something that cultural relativism can't seem to tease out.

    Since it seems no straight answers are forthcoming around how Irish culture has evolved, or certainly no judgement on it, let's take the oul cultural relativism for a spin. Again.
    Annasopra wrote: »
    The Polish and Hungarian idea of monocultarism is to attack Womens/LGBT/Migrant/Refugee rights

    Let's forget about lumping different groups together, do you see these as examples of negatives in wider Polish and Hungarian culture? Do you see Ireland as having more examples of positives on the same issues? Which is the "better" culture for those groups then?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #9641
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    john123470 wrote: »
    The official fiction in the Middle east is that homosexuality doesn't exist.
    You can be put to death for sodomy in Saudi, Yemen, Sudan and Mauritania.

    Sure, try practising your homosexuality openly in a Muslim community but watch your back

    Yes, it does depend on the country.


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    #9642
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed. Now while I can certainly see how cultural discrimination can be in effect, by definition it can't be racist as culture is separate to race, or at least if someone was to suggest they were bound together they would be accused of racism and rightfully so. Something that cultural relativism can't seem to tease out.

    The critical/constructionist theories literature is a complete mess, but it's clear that those who work on "axes of oppression" other than race often seek to use the immense (Western) cultural taboo that racism (as colloquially understood) has (rightly) become to give their ideas more gravitas in the incestuous annals of critical academia.

    Being called racist should be, and was until very recently, one of the worst things that could happen to a person in the West, reputationally speaking. Now it's so commonplace and disconnected from the principle upon which the taboo was buiilt that; it barely registers; a news story about someone being "racist" brings immediate scepticism rather than shock; and white (mostly American, for now) progressives will happily proclaim themselves racist and give themselves a pat on the back for doing so.

    Anyone who has read any history knows that this goes nowhere good. And nevertheless, we career.


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    #9643
    john123470
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yes, it does depend on the country.

    "And as for the two of you men who are guilty of lewdness, punish them both .."
    QURAN 4:16

    Most schools of Shari'ah law see homosexual sex as deserving the same punishment as adultery, ie death

    Gay Muslims might be protected by Euro anti-discrimination laws, but they face enormous pressure from within their own family / community

    Not happy bedfellows, Islam and sexual freedom.
    But what the hell, we can all co-exist peacefully .. i just know it


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    #9644
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yes, it does depend on the country.

    If being gay is ok in the Muslim community . How many Muslim countries hold pride parades?


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    #9645
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kildare lad wrote: »
    If being gay is ok in the Muslim community . How many Muslim countries hold pride parades?

    Well I attended pride parades in Kosovo twice, accompanied by Muslim friends.


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    #9646
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well I attended pride parades in Kosovo twice, accompanied by Muslim friends.

    That's one country , name a few more that hold annual pride parades .


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    #9647
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kildare lad wrote: »
    That's one country , name a few more that hold annual pride parades .

    That is the only one I have attended, but I believe there are in Bosnia, Turkey and Lebanon do, but I haven't looked into it


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    #9648
    john123470
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well I attended pride parades in Kosovo twice, accompanied by Muslim friends.

    Kosovo may have constitutionally banned discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation but the society itself remains traditional and deeply hostile to sexual minorities.

    Attending a pride parade is very different to trying to live there as an openly practising gay person


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    #9649
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    john123470 wrote: »
    Kosovo may have constitutionally banned discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation but the society itself remains traditional and deeply hostile to sexual minorities.

    Attending a pride parade is very different to trying to live there as an openly practising gay person

    Well, the gay people I knew living there didn't have any issues.
    Is there some conservative older people? Yep, same as here.


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    #9650
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    That is the only one I have attended, but I believe there are in Bosnia, Turkey and Lebanon do, but I haven't looked into it

    Googles very handy if you're stuck .Turkey has banned pride parades , it recently fired tear gas and arrest people at them . Lebanon's pride parade was cancelled due to threats . There's 50 countries in the world with a population with a Muslim majority. You're not really convincing me that gay and lgbt rights are as prevalent as you try and make out


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    #9651
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Turkey has banned pride parades , it recently fired tear gas and arrest people at them . Lebanon's pride parade was cancelled due to threats . There's 50 countries in the world with a population with a Muslim majority. You're not really convincing me that gay and lgbt rights are as prevalent as you try and make out

    I have never claimed that gay and lgbt rights are protected? I think we all know they are not.
    There are many countries were being homosexual is against the law, and unfortunately still countries were conviction can result in the death penalty.
    It's terrible and a gross breach of human rights.


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    #9652
    john123470
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭john123470


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well, the gay people I knew living there didn't have any issues.
    Is there some conservative older people? Yep, same as here.

    Really ?

    "Rising numbers of people from Kosovo are seeking asylum in other European countries on grounds of persecution for their sexual orientation.

    States considering such claims need to
    look beyond Kosovo’s apparently progressive constitution to the rather different reality on the ground"


    //Article pdf : Kosovo: what does the future hold for LGBT people?
    Agathe Fauchier //


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    #9653
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There are many countries were being homosexual is against the law, and unfortunately still countries were conviction can result in the death penalty.
    It's terrible and a gross breach of human rights.

    I agree with you, but I'm interested in where you think this comes from if not the culture?


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    #9654
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    john123470 wrote: »
    Really ?

    "Rising numbers of people from Kosovo are seeking asylum in other European countries on grounds of persecution for their sexual orientation.

    States considering such claims need to
    look beyond Kosovo’s apparently progressive constitution to the rather different reality on the ground"


    //Article pdf : Kosovo: what does the future hold for LGBT people?
    Agathe Fauchier //


    Really yep.
    People can claim whatever they want when they claim asylum, it's up to the country they apply to, whether they succeed or not.


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    #9655
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I agree with you, but I'm interested in where you think this comes from if not the culture?

    Well, like it was in Ireland, homosexuality is illegal because of the religion.
    And yes, I understand that religion is part of culture.
    But that doesn't mean I believe locking unmarried pregnant women up and taking their babies was 'Irish culture' in the past.


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    #9656
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well, like it was in Ireland, homosexuality is illegal because of the religion.
    And yes, I understand that religion is part of culture.
    But that doesn't mean I believe locking unmarried pregnant women up and taking their babies was 'Irish culture' in the past.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Do you think giving women equality and allowing them to make their own reproductive decisions and raise their children as they please, even if they choose to do it on their own, is part of Irish culture now?


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    #9657
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply.

    Do you think giving women equality and allowing them to make their own reproductive decisions and raise their children as they please, even if they choose to do it on their own, is part of Irish culture now?

    Well......part of the culture? Not really, I would consider it part of the society.


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    #9658
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I have never claimed that gay and lgbt rights are protected? I think we all know they are not.
    There are many countries were being homosexual is against the law, and unfortunately still countries were conviction can result in the death penalty.
    It's terrible and a gross breach of human rights.

    You were trying to imply on a previous post that the views of a person in the video don't represent the 1.8 billion Muslims in the world . They mightn't, but they do represent a substantial amount . I always find it weird that liberals want to fill up their country with the most socially conservative people on the planet . Talk about letting the fox in among the chickens .


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    #9659
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kildare lad wrote: »
    You were trying to imply on a previous post that the views of a person in the video don't represent the 1.8 billion Muslims in the world .

    The views of that man, were just that, his views.
    It was of course advertised as the 'Muslim ' view.


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    #9660
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The views of that man, were just that, his views.
    It was of course advertised as the 'Muslim ' view.

    Do you honestly believe that most Muslims are pro homosexuality?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #9661
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well......part of the culture? Not really, I would consider it part of the society.

    Thanks for the reply.

    How does "the society" differ from "the culture" in your view, and in what ways do culture and society affect each other?

    If the religion is part of the culture but the consequences of a religious population are not part of the culture, and consequences of a lack of religion are not part of the culture, I'm not clear on what you think culture is, exactly.

    Which is not to say that religion is the only important contributing factor to culture, but I would certainly count it as a major one.


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