What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Cordell

That's not to say that LGB rights should be removed, or anything like that, but at the same time, we need to recognise that there are dangerous/destructive agendas/theories being pushed under causes that were originally justified, but have since been hijacked to promote other concerns.

Of course we need to recognize when wrong things are happening and indeed we have a big problem doing that these days in the western world, this is why we have all this problems now.

These demands for freedom in everything are part of what makes western culture so vulnerable these days. There have to be boundaries, and a common sense approach applied to freedom, and the good of society

Yes, indeed, there is a demand for freedoms that inflict other people rights, freedom to wear burka, freedom of lads to call themselves girls and get into girls toilet and so on. This is not about that.


In short, I pretty much agree with everything you said but what is happening in Poland is something else.

Annasopra

kildare lad wrote: »

No your just a racist if you disagree with a march where people are flying isis flags, thats held in a first world country . Some logic . There's 50 countries in the world with a majority Muslim population , how come they never migrate there .

Yeah you are racist if you are sharing racist material from a racist source. Gas how a video from Patriotic Alternative is shared by you but then you deny having ever heard of them. You are the one sharing youtube videos from extremist white supremacists.

kildare lad

Annasopra wrote: »

Yeah you are racist if you are sharing racist material from a racist source. Gas how a video from Patriotic Alternative is shared by you but then you deny having ever heard of them. You are the one sharing youtube videos from extremist white supremacists.

Do you know the clip is taken from a BBC documentary ?? The bbcs now making racist documentaries are they??? Do you look at the names of every person who uploads videos on YouTube . I had a check there and the name of the uploader is JamesL . You seem to be more angry with me for posting the video , than a load of ISIS supporters walking through a UK city , waving isis flags in support of a wife of a suicide bomber .... Still no comment on the video from you ???

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, indeed, there is a demand for freedoms that inflict other people rights, freedom to wear burka, freedom of lads to call themselves girls and get into girls toilet and so on. This is not about that.

And yet, it is. Associations have been encouraged. Many activists (of all backgrounds) have encouraged these associations to form. Perception is important, and activists/advocated have sought to link their causes to past causes which had greater justification for being pursued. I've lost count of the number of times posters on various threads have linked the struggle for rights of homosexuals, with other agendas currently at play, but mostly with the overall trans movement. Creating a false equivalence between the two, and the aggressive attacks on anyone who questions it. Those associations shape perceptions in the internet world we live in.

I'd suggest that we live in a much more cynical world now, and anyone looking at any kind of rights movement will be considering the political and social ramifications of it gaining power. It's one of the reasons I'm so uneasy about BLM and associated racial movements. They all have too many links to political considerations that shouldn't be ignored because they do have the power to effect change on society.. and often for short term feel good results, but long term suffering. We've seen that with BLM, the cutting of funding and the drop in support for the police in the US..

In short, I pretty much agree with everything you said but what is happening in Poland is something else.

Oh, I do agree although, I can see that there's more going on than the simple issue of freedom.

enricoh

kildare lad wrote: »

Do you know the clip is taken from a BBC documentary ?? The bbcs now making racist documentaries are they??? Do you look at the names of every person who uploads videos on YouTube . I had a check there and the name of the uploader is JamesL . You seem to be more angry with me for posting the video , than a load of ISIS supporters walking through a UK city , waving isis flags in support of a wife of a suicide bomber .... Still no comment on the video from you ???

This is what you're debating with Kildare lad!

Sure it'll be culturally enriching for paddy when they go marching here, like a mini Paddy's day march! They could do with some more vibrant colours like the pride lads use. Maybe they could touch base with the pride lads and get a few pointers!!

RobbieTheRobber

enricoh wrote: »

This is what you're debating with Kildare lad!

Sure it'll be culturally enriching for paddy when they go marching here, like a mini Paddy's day march! They could do with some more vibrant colours like the pride lads use. Maybe they could touch base with the pride lads and get a few pointers!!

This post is a literal straw man argument.
No one, not a single poster has said the things you are saying.
Who are you arguing against?

MarkEadie

Deleted User wrote: »

This kind of question has been raised numerous times on the thread, and various posters have committed themselves to answering it.

The problem is that posters like yourself won't accept any opinions given in response to it, and will instead, cry "stop generalising", "what about the individuals?", etc. So.. no, it wasn't dodged, although, TBF, it's a question that's realistically impossible to answer... but that's the point, in asking such a loaded question, isn't it?

For myself, I would say that the majority of Muslim males from the age of 13 to 99, would have opinions to match those in the image. I doubt they're all out protesting in public though, but I would imagine there's quite a network of such sentiment floating around online somewhere. Islam is a very community driven religion, and peer pressure along with religious conditioning would ensure that most would agree with such sentiments.

You think that the majority of Muslim males think that anyone who insults Islam should be beheaded. I think that says it all. We can just agree to disagree on this.

MarkEadie

Annasopra wrote: »

Yeah you are racist if you are sharing racist material from a racist source. Gas how a video from Patriotic Alternative is shared by you but then you deny having ever heard of them. You are the one sharing youtube videos from extremist white supremacists.

No surprise to see a cohort of posters are watching and defending disgusting stuff like patriotic alternative, who of course they've never heard of lol

Cordell

Anything but don't comment the video. What's in the video, THAT is actually indefensible.

TomTomTim

MarkEadie wrote: »

No surprise to see a cohort of posters are watching and defending disgusting stuff like patriotic alternative, who of course they've never heard of lol

Do you honestly think, that when someone goes looking for a specific video on YouTube, they need to vet who uploaded it? Who uploaded it is pretty irrelevant to be fair, the substance is what matters. As has already been pointed out, the substance was from a MSM media source.

Also, it's perfectly possible that no one here had heard of "Patriotic Alternative ", when they are completely fringe. I certainly haven't heard of them before, and I'm far more right wing than most posters here. This is just another cheap attempt at deflection.

kildare lad

Cordell wrote: »

Anything but don't comment the video. What's in the video, THAT is actually indefensible.

There must be a lot of Isis apologists on the thread , afraid to criticize them , the usual ignore , deflect , head in the sand ....

kildare lad

kildare lad wrote: »

Stacey Dooley at a protest in luton about an arrest of a woman whos husband blew themselves up . Isis flags , full bodies veils , hate the west rhetoric . Although not a sign of any woke , blue haired , non binary , welcome all refugee types marching with them .... Strange that .


https://youtu.be/hHvDy_X_hDM

If you saw that on Homeland outside an embassy, you'd be deploying the marines

kildare lad

MarkEadie wrote: »

No surprise to see a cohort of posters are watching and defending disgusting stuff like patriotic alternative, who of course they've never heard of lol

I never heard of them before believe it or not , it doesn't bother me what you believe . Do you vet every uploader on YouTube before you watch a video ?
Apologies that I didn't put the phone up to my eye to see Patriotic Alternate in tiny writing beside the larger JamesL , which I didn't notice either ... I'll have to be more careful next time , don't want ye getting angry about who uploaded a BBC documentary , while ignoring the video about a crowd of people who want the end of western civilization , marching in an English city . Strange logic that .

Cordell

I think they see the problem just as well as we do, but they can't speak up as that would be racist (by their standards, not ours).
So instead it's deflection and getting defensive, and since no one can do anything about it at least some get to signal their virtue

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

You think that the majority of Muslim males think that anyone who insults Islam should be beheaded. I think that says it all. We can just agree to disagree on this.

Haha.. Mark, what is it with your creepy desire to put words in my mouth?

You know, you could argue with what I've written as opposed to reading between the lines. :rolleyes:

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

No surprise to see a cohort of posters are watching and defending disgusting stuff like patriotic alternative, who of course they've never heard of lol

Who would that be? I mean, I scrolled back to the post in question, which didn't get many likes. Nor has there been an outpouring of support for the video... In fact, the only conversation about patriotic alternative or any extremist views has been from Annasopra.

You're doing the same as Annasopra, although instead of "people", you're using "cohort" implying another vague generalisation. Who are all these people who are talking about patriotic alternative, cause they're not on this thread...

MarkEadie

Deleted User wrote: »

Haha.. Mark, what is it with your creepy desire to put words in my mouth?

You know, you could argue with what I've written as opposed to reading between the lines. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should have read the placards in the picture before posting that you think the majority of Muslim men hold the same views as those holding the placards. As you said you thought the majority of Muslim men held the same views as the ones who held the placards, I assumed you meant that you thought the majority of Muslim men held the same views as the ones holding the placards. Perhaps you should reread what you have written my friend. In fairness to Wibbs he was quick enough pulling you up on it.

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

Perhaps you should have read the placards in the picture before posting that you think the majority of Muslim men hold the same views as those holding the placards.

Oh, I did read the statements in the image. Just as I saw them in photos following the beheading of the teacher in France. Or the protests over the comic books in Denmark. Or... There's no shortage of protests to choose from, and many tend to have Muslim males carrying signs with aggressive statements.

And you made the statement that I believed that all Muslims wanted to behead those who insulted Islam. There are a variety of placards in that image? They're all quite aggressive, but the beheading is just one of them.

You see, I've seen firsthand Muslim men getting antsy over perceived insults to their faith, and I do think it's a common attitude among Muslims coming from the M.East. Admittedly, I should have been more specific in saying that, as opposed to implying it related to all Muslims...

But honestly, Mark, You haven't scored in any way... you're still seeking to put words in my mouth and set a narrative different from what was written in my posts.

As you said you thought the majority of Muslim men held the same views as the ones who held the placards, I assumed you meant that you thought the majority of Muslim men held the same views as the ones holding the placards. Perhaps you should reread what you have written my friend. In fairness to Wibbs he was quick enough pulling you up on it.

Shock horror. Wibbs and I having different opinions on any topic. I mean, I appreciate his pov most of the time, but we're not bosom buddies on every topic. We have had different experiences with Islam.

MarkEadie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And you made the statement that I believed that all Muslims wanted to behead those who insulted Islam. There are a variety of placards in that image? They're all quite aggressive, but the beheading is just one of them.

.

I just quoted you verbatim when you said you thought "the majority" of Muslim males had those same views. The image shows two main placards calling for the beheading and massacre of people who insult Islam.



When you said "the majority of Muslim males hold those views", i assumed you were talking about the two main placards. You are now saying you were not referring to those and were referring to the others. I'll let the reader make up their own mind but it seems like you've let something slip there and are in the process of backtracking.

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

I just quoted you verbatim when you said you thought "the majority" of Muslim males had those same views. The image shows two main placards calling for the beheading and massacre of people who insult Islam.

Yup. Now, any quote where I specified that the majority wanted to behead people? No? So... perhaps you were wrong to make the claim, and try to assume some kind of high moral position?

When you said "the majority of Muslim males hold those views", i assumed you were talking about the two main placards. You are now saying you were not referring to those and were referring to the others. I'll let the reader make up their own mind but it seems like you've let something slip there and are in the process of backtracking.

Haha.., you assume something, so that makes it right, even though, I didn't state your assumption in my posts? As I said, you read between the lines too much, and use those assumptions for the basis of your arguments.

The only thing I have backtracked is the claim that all Muslims believe the same as those in the photo. In my response to Wibbs, before you had posted at all about my statement, I clarified, that I believed it was a majority attitude by those from the M.East, and not so much from those in Asia/Africa.

I am not backtracking due to anything you have said. In fact, you made a claim, based on your own assumption, as opposed to what I wrote, and I'm perfectly happy to keep pointing that out.

And yes, the reader can make up their own minds, although... they can also consider this. I'm fine with letting this go. As I was fine with letting go the other times you've misrepresented my posts, or made claims based on your ability to read between the lines...

MarkEadie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yup. Now, any quote where I specified that the majority wanted to behead people? No? So... perhaps you were wrong to make the claim, and try to assume some kind of high moral position?



Haha.., you assume something, so that makes it right, even though, I didn't state your assumption in my posts? As I said, you read between the lines too much, and use those assumptions for the basis of your arguments.

The only thing I have backtracked is the claim that all Muslims believe the same as those in the photo. In my response to Wibbs, before you had posted at all about my statement, I clarified, that I believed it was a majority attitude by those from the M.East, and not so much from those in Asia/Africa.

I am not backtracking due to anything you have said. In fact, you made a claim, based on your own assumption, as opposed to what I wrote, and I'm perfectly happy to keep pointing that out.

And yes, the reader can make up their own minds, although... they can also consider this. I'm fine with letting this go. As I was fine with letting go the other times you've misrepresented my posts, or made claims based on your ability to read between the lines...

I didn't see you saying all held those views just "the majority" and you since backtracked on that and said "the majority in middle Eastern countries".

Perhaps you could point out which placards you were referring to when you backtracked and said that the majority of middle Eastern Muslim men hold that view"? You are now saying you were not referring to either of the two at the forefront of the image which call for beheadings and massacres for those who insult Islam, correct? I suppose you weren't referring to the one in behind calling for the annihilation of anyone who criticises Islam too.

JupiterKid

Unchecked immigration of people who are completely culturally different into any given nation is a very bad idea. Only tension, resentment and discord can result.

I have no problem of immigration if it is regulated and those who come a host country abide by its laws and customs, and learn the native language. We need integration, not multiculturalism - which is really a lazy way of claiming to “respect” immigrant cultures whilst really doing nothing at all with respect to integration and acculturation.

And then there is Herrnstein and Murray’s highly controversial nook, The Bell Curve (1994), which claims that race, ethnicity and intellgence levels appear to be closely linked. The nook, has of course been criticized and its central thesis questioned, but I believe there is a kernel of uncomfortable truth in the book.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

MarkEadie

That's been discredited many times over but since you believe it, why would you want people you deem intellectually inferior to come here and integrate?

Good job we have controlled immigration and that all have to abide by our laws.

TomTomTim

bubblypop wrote: »

Good job we have controlled immigration and that all have to abide by our laws.

We also have a steady supply of leprechauns and unicorns

john123470

MarkEadie wrote: »

I didn't see you saying all held those views just "the majority" and you since backtracked on that and said "the majority in middle Eastern countries".

Perhaps you could point out which placards you were referring to when you backtracked and said that the majority of middle Eastern Muslim men hold that view"?

That's the problem with these threads on "multiculturalism"

Express a view that "the middle eastern version of islam is wholly incompatible with Western civilization", that 1-2 generations down the line, the influx of refugees from these countries will want to assert their 'wholly incompatible rights', have a say in what is taught in schools, how it is taught etc etc and you get hyper-ventilating, knicker flingin LGBT supporters accusing you of racism, of being far right, far left, soggy bottom left of entre, whatever

What baffles me is that this Ultra conservative religion will have scant regard for LGBT rights once they gain a foothold in a western country.

Sharia law will see you flogged at the croosroads for having "dirty thoughts" (don't worry, an App will come along to show thats exactly what you were up to).

The sad part tho is that it doesn't really matter what we say on Boards, it's the gombeen men and women who run the country, who invite in all and sundry and let future generations deal with the fallout - thats where the real problem lies

john123470

john123470 wrote: »

hyper-ventilating, knicker flingin LGBT supporters accusing you of racism, of being far right, far left, soggy bottom left of entre, whatever

Ah yeah, there you are!
Why is it LGBT supporters, do you think?

DeadHand

john123470 wrote: »

the influx of refugees from these countries will want to assert their 'wholly incompatible rights', have a say in what is taught in schools, how it is taught etc etc

This has already happened in the UK at Batley Grammar school.

A worrying scene arose there when a Muslim cleric publicly laid down the new law to the teachers of an old Christian school. There was a policeman on each of his shoulders, like dogs at heel, nodding obsequiously.

It was breathtakingly dangerous surrender.

What will Islamists feel emboldened to dictate to the native society on next?

DeadHand

DeadHand wrote: »

What will Islamists feel emboldened to dictate to the native society on next?

Taste of what's to come 2 or 3 years ago from the 7.5 k better off, and "great advocate of freedom of expression,” Ali Selim, PhD and his mutterings on FGM, Charlie Hebdo, music, PE, school plays, etc.

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

I didn't see you saying all held those views just "the majority" and you since backtracked on that and said "the majority in middle Eastern countries".

Perhaps you could point out which placards you were referring to when you backtracked and said that the majority of middle Eastern Muslim men hold that view"? You are now saying you were not referring to either of the two at the forefront of the image which call for beheadings and massacres for those who insult Islam, correct? I suppose you weren't referring to the one in behind calling for the annihilation of anyone who criticises Islam too.

Good God, man. What's wrong with your reading comprehension?

I'm finished with this. You've got to be taking the piss to get things wrong so often..