What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ILoveYourVibes

Bobtheman wrote: »

I knew him well enough to say I'm not sure if any of my family were involved in the war of independence but pretty sure yours were not! He laughed but to be fair both Nigeria and Ireland share a common colonial history with Britain.

Yeah. English is the official language there too. :rolleyes: Bloody Empire!

oholly121

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have enjoyed the race bashing you mean.

This really is an unfair and unjust statement to make regarding the discussion that was ongoing before the tweet was unleashed on the thread,

I was really enjoying the open and frankness of the discussion from Hamanchi , Wibbs etc then ILYV descednded the thread into a personal discussion surrounding moot points around race and racism ?

For the record what the lady said in her tweet was wrong in my opinion however she is free to make her own judgement and voice her own concerns and opinion just as free as people are to say back to her what they think

I think most of the people who have posted here up have a rational open minded view on immigration and the results of same if not properly adhered to or otherwise there been some very interesting arguments made against our current policy and unfortunantly that's going to upset some people as we have seen.

Immigration is a 2 way street as has been said in many posts here I cant go to an Islamic country and have a beer or eat pork because its against their culture and religion
Likewise I'm not going to China to badmouth their CCP
Im not going to say there's too little white people in Angloa , Nigeria etc
Im not demanding the opening of more churches in Hindu India
Not criticising Japan on only accepting in 20 refugees last year

However

All of the above seems to be tolerated and actually applauded in the west its mind boggling and tolerated meaning that there is some sort of agenda here I don't know what that is but I feel there is

And John Mcguirk was right on PT there is a 10-20% of voters feeling that no Political Party represents them on these and other issues, all its going to take is a high profile incident here to push those voters and probably conservatives within FF , SF , FG to see that there parties are just pushing the narrative and not really looking after the interests of their locality or country

It has happened already on a small scale - Peter Casey , Mattie McGrath , Noel Grelish

Otherwise great thread before hijacked by the feels and PC brigade !

Wompa1

Hamachi wrote: »

Why is this a problem?

Not so much on just the white aspect but Ireland has a high rate of diseases like hemochromatosis. We haven't had the most diverse gene pool over the last many generations. Getting some new blood in and diversifying the gene pool could be a good thing for us.

dominatinMC

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That Post has been deleted.

Please don't restrict that action to a single post.

Arthur Daley

oholly121 wrote: »

All of the above seems to be tolerated and actually applauded in the west its mind boggling and tolerated meaning that there is some sort of agenda here I don't know what that is but I feel there is

It is probably a tiny number of people pushing all of this. In the likes of RTE, the Irish Times and then the difference now is that social media is amplifying it. If there was an agenda it is the same old looney left workers of the world unite guff. That nobody ever votes for. They can't believe their luck when larger numbers are sucked in, they have the impression they are making a 'breakthrough'. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Hamachi

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not so much on just the white aspect but Ireland has a high rate of diseases like hemochromatosis. We haven't had the most diverse gene pool over the last many generations. Getting some new blood in and diversifying the gene pool could be a good thing for us.

Agreed. There are some conditions that are more prevalent here, with known genetic linkage.

However, that’s not really germane to what one poster in particular, is arguing. The fact is that our gene pool is and will continue to diversify due to the large volume of migration from EU partners. These migrants typically blend in rapidly and will inter-marry within a generation or two.

That’s not good enough for some though. All it’s doing is amplifying the ‘whiteness’ of this country, which in their eyes is something intrinsically wrong and needs to be de-constructed. This rubbish is propagated all over platforms like Twitter. Thankfully, most normal people see through this nonsense and appreciate this country for what it is.

Arthur Daley

Arthur Daley wrote: »

It is probably a tiny number of people pushing all of this. In the likes of RTE, the Irish Times and then the difference now is that social media is amplifying it. If there was an agenda it is the same old looney left workers of the world unite guff. That nobody ever votes for. They can't believe their luck when larger numbers are sucked in, they have the impression they are making a 'breakthrough'. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The difference though is that our politicians are also promoting the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism. Few politicians go against the mainstream movement of being pro-immigration and when they do, they face massive backlash, often completely out of proportion with what has been said. This comes from both the media, and political groups.

The political parties don't need our votes to justify their promoting of multiculturalism because the choices in parties is so narrow. If the major parties are all PR spinning immigration, people are still going to vote for them (regardless of their concerns on immigration or DP) because they represent other issues of concern.

oholly121

Arthur Daley wrote: »

It is probably a tiny number of people pushing all of this. In the likes of RTE, the Irish Times and then the difference now is that social media is amplifying it. If there was an agenda it is the same old looney left workers of the world unite guff. That nobody ever votes for. They can't believe their luck when larger numbers are sucked in, they have the impression they are making a 'breakthrough'. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Thats a fair point but who runs these organisations ? RTE the Irish times etc

Who sanctions such programmes and articles ?

Ive yet to see any real discussions or debates within both organisations surrounding what we have spoken about here on this thread a level headed unbiased rational discussion in the mainstream

If you think about it there's actually very little to none high profile individuals in the mainstream that are even daring to open this up to a discussion and if they do kits usually some crackpot like GOD john waters who really have no credibility and are not in the least charismatic

Looking at last weeks PT it was embarrassing TBH the only one who made sense was John Mcguirk and even he got hammered on twitter that very night and he didn't really say much ?

Its very rare you'l see on Irish national TV a level headed rational person who dares discusses this a few spring to mind Nial Boylan , John Mcgurk that's about it most of the others are hiding out on twitter

If we keep banishing this discussion and buring it , what comes back from this strategy maybe 10,000 times worse !

oholly121

Deleted User wrote: »

The difference though is that our politicians are also promoting the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism. Few politicians go against the mainstream movement of being pro-immigration and when they do, they face massive backlash, often completely out of proportion with what has been said. This comes from both the media, and political groups.

The political parties don't need our votes to justify their promoting of multiculturalism because the choices in parties is so narrow. If the major parties are all PR spinning immigration, people are still going to vote for them (regardless of their concerns on immigration or DP) because they represent other issues of concern.

This every day of the week !!!

People are starting to cop on to this though

Look at what happened during the presidential election with Peter Casey ( now granted I wouldn't put him anywhere near anything !! ) but it goes to show how out of touch politicians and in general this PC brigade are at the moment when a man goes from below 1% to second in the polls from comments made it goes to show a lot of people agreed with him and resulted in votes

Liekwise Noel Grelish he tripled his vote count despite his comments

Like I said earlier there is an appetite for a straight taking shoot from the hip type of person or party in this country at the moment

Its not going away what people see and feel despite the media campaign !

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

However, that’s not really germane to what one poster in particular, is arguing. The fact is that our gene pool is and will continue to diversify due to the large volume of migration from EU partners. These migrants typically blend in rapidly and will inter-marry within a generation or two.

That’s not good enough for some though. All it’s doing is amplifying the ‘whiteness’ of this country, which in their eyes is something intrinsically wrong and needs to be de-constructed.

Pretty much. The "diversity" that gets the most push is non White. Even East Asian is down the list. It's always brown and the darker the better. A weird fetish of exoticism or White guilt, I don't know which. It is certainly extremely rare to see White "diversity" with NGO's and the media.

Like I noted earlier we have over ten thousand Italians, ten thousand Germans, ten thousand Spaniards, ten thousand French, never mind over hundred thousand Polish and British and so on, many of whom are partnered with native Irish people and we don't see them wheeled out as posters boys and girls as part of our diversity. They're quite simply not quite the right "colour"(unless they happen to be of minority heritage in their original countries). Interestingly is does seem to be about the darker skin colour as folks like Indians and Pakistanis and Afghans would get more airtime for being "diverse", yet are part of the wider Caucasian population group, just generally darker(though I know an Afghan lad who is mousey blond with blue eyes).

I don't know about "racist", but it's extremely colour biased this so called "diversity", the more melanin the better and pale of face doesn't quite cut the mustard.

Hamachi

oholly121 wrote: »

This every day of the week !!!

People are starting to cop on to this though

Look at what happened during the presidential election with Peter Casey ( now granted I wouldn't put him anywhere near anything !! ) but it goes to show how out of touch politicians and in general this PC brigade are at the moment when a man goes from below 1% to second in the polls from comments made it goes to show a lot of people agreed with him and resulted in votes

Liekwise Noel Grelish he tripled his vote count despite his comments

Like I said earlier there is an appetite for a straight taking shoot from the hip type of person or party in this country at the moment

Its not going away what people see and feel despite the media campaign !

Yeah. Verona Murphy was also recently elected in Wexford, despite her less than supportive comments on immigration. Whilst some of what she said around ISIS infiltrators was over the top, she has direct experience of the perils of irregular migration in her former role as the chairperson of the road hauliers association. Instead of listening to and learning from her, she was vilified and subject to all manner of personal attacks. Didn’t stop people in Wexford electing her though.

The demand for center right politics, promoting a sensible migration policy is there. It just needs to be tapped into by someone with an ounce of charisma. The current strategy of suppressing and silencing all dissent, will inevitably provide the genesis for an ‘Alternative for Ireland’ movement. How these people can’t see this is beyond me.

oholly121

Hamachi wrote: »

Yeah. Verona Murphy was also recently elected in Wexford, despite her less than supportive comments on immigration. Whilst some of what she said around ISIS infiltrators was over the top, she has direct experience of the perils of irregular migration in her former role as the chairperson of the road hauliers association. Instead of listening to and learning from her, she was instead vilified and subject to all manner of personal attack’s. Didn’t stop people in Wexford electing her though.

The demand for center right politics, promoting a sensible migration policy is there. It just needs to be tapped into by someone with an ounce of charisma. The current strategy of suppressing and silencing all dissent, will inevitably provide the genesis for an ‘Alternative for Ireland’ movement. How these people can’t see this is beyond me.

Oh yeah I didnt even think of her good shout ! and good example !

Thats my point even though she was vilified by her party and the media she still came out on top ! I remember seeing her on the tonight show shortly after she made those comments and I found here to be very level headed and collected on her immigration points !

I would be concerned about burning this conversation it hasent worked to well in other countries or in history in fact !

biko

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Ireland is 88% white Irish.

Where do you get your numbers from?
In 2016 CSO says it was 82.2% https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/82pc-class-themselves-as-white-irish-36222725.html
So one in 5 people you meet aren't white Irish.

That is probably not a lot for a progressive like yourself so let's say one in five people in Zimbabwe were not black Zimbabwean?

oholly121

biko wrote: »

Where do you get your numbers from?
In 2016 CSO says it was 82.2% https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/82pc-class-themselves-as-white-irish-36222725.html

Please don't bring her back into the conversation

weldoninhio

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not fully onboard with all your views and would be a bit more optimistic with multi culturalism as it is developing in Ireland, maybe optimism trumping realism, but we'll see.

But that is a great post, and a position I can respect.

For me there are two issues. How our immigration laws and asylum provision develop going forward is one issue.
The other is building the best possible society for Ireland as it stands, which is multi cultural to a certain extent.

Ultimately a stable society where everyone feels that they are treated fairly, or at least most people, is a benefit for everyone.

Yeah, hasn't worked anywhere else in the world ever, but it's just gonna click in lil ole Ireland.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

The current strategy of suppressing and silencing all dissent, will inevitably provide the genesis for an ‘Alternative for Ireland’ movement. How these people can’t see this is beyond me.

Actually, I feel that's exactly what they want. Since the creation (elevation) of such an organisation would further justify their own extreme views. They're hellbent on creating "an enemy" that they can point to.

If there's little to no racism in Ireland, let's seek to generate racism in Ireland, and then our positions as advocates against racism will be secure.

You see it a lot here on boards where posters with pretty moderate views but who go against the pro-immigration/pro-diversity, are called alt-right or far-right, even though their posts contain nothing of what would be traditionally part of such groups.

Wompa1

Hamachi wrote: »

Agreed. There are some conditions that are more prevalent here, with known genetic linkage.

However, that’s not really germane to what one poster in particular, is arguing. The fact is that our gene pool is and will continue to diversify due to the large volume of migration from EU partners. These migrants typically blend in rapidly and will inter-marry within a generation or two.

That’s not good enough for some though. All it’s doing is amplifying the ‘whiteness’ of this country, which in their eyes is something intrinsically wrong and needs to be de-constructed. This rubbish is propagated all over platforms like Twitter. Thankfully, most normal people see through this nonsense and appreciate this country for what it is.

Should probably look further afield. Some of our European neighbors are also prone to the same afflictions as us or others. Living in Galway at the moment after many years away, seems like a very diverse mix of people in the city. Kids and teenagers of different races seem to mix very well.

Hamachi

Wompa1 wrote: »

Should probably look further afield. Some of our European neighbors are also prone to the same afflictions as us or others. Living in Galway at the moment after many years away, seems like a very diverse mix of people in the city. Kids and teenagers of different races seem to mix very well.

There isn’t enough genetic diversity in an EU population of > 500 million people? That’s completely ridiculous.

Arthur Daley

Hamachi wrote: »

There isn’t enough genetic diversity in an EU population of > 500 million people? That’s completely ridiculous.

Or enough unemployment:o

aye, heard it all now

Rockbeast2

Hamachi wrote: »

There isn’t enough genetic diversity in an EU population of > 500 million people? That’s completely ridiculous.

They really mean that there is not enough black/brown people. That is what they always mean.

Wompa1

Hamachi wrote: »

There isn’t enough genetic diversity in an EU population of > 500 million people? That’s completely ridiculous.

Total population of the EU is 446 million. We don't have large numbers coming from ALL EU countries. Mainly Polish (declining), Romanian, UK nationals, Italian and Spanish.

Hemochromatosis as one example is relatively high in Italy, Ireland and Spain in particular but is also pretty prevalent in Spain and the UK too. The Romanians will be coveted :pac:

Tony EH

dominatinMC wrote: »

Thanks for the reminder, truly insightful. And, what exactly, is the issue with this statistic? Or is there one? May I remind you that Nigeria is 98% black.

And if you went there and complained about it, you'd soon be told where to go.

Then nip over to China, and bring back 50k Chinese men for Irish brides. Asians typically do very well in western nations. As opposed to Africans, who tend to represent the lower strata of a multicultural society. Problem solved. Although, we might be encouraging myopia here. Damn.

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

There isn’t enough genetic diversity in an EU population of > 500 million people? That’s completely ridiculous.

Yeah I was scratching my head on that one too. I suspect Wompa's take is a subconscious reflection of the promoted ideal we're talking about. IE that only Dark skin and "exotic' equals diverse. Which is a nonsense. Genetic diseases and conditions are found throughout all populations and some populations exotic or no can have a higher incidence. There's also the old idea of hybrid vigour when applied to humans. Problem with that is that only occurs between related subspecies of animals and not always either. Plus just because you have kids with someone it doesn't mean you get all the good genes all the time or all your bad genes are suppressed. It's much more of a coin toss than that.

Now certain areas of the world are more genetically diverse. Africa for example is the most genetically diverse place on the planet. Mainly because modern humans evolved there and were there for longer, add in some natural barriers to travel and you get more diversity. European genetics are pretty diverse. For a start and like Asians we have archaic human DNA that Africans don't(or they have different ones). Plus people moved around a fair amount throughout European history on the back of trade or more likely war. And contrary to popular belief Irish genetics didn't stay as local as some may believe. There was quite the too and fro of other European admixture down the centuries. Sadly not "diverse" enough for the modern multiculturalist ideal as they were also Europeans, with some early farmers from the Middle East.

Hamachi

Wompa1 wrote: »

Total population of the EU is 446 million. We don't have large numbers coming from ALL EU countries. Mainly Polish (declining), Romanian, UK nationals, Italian and Spanish.

Hemochromatosis as one example is relatively high in Italy, Ireland and Spain in particular but is also pretty prevalent in Spain and the UK too. The Romanians will be coveted :pac:

The EU population was 513 million in 2019. This will drop by 66 million when the UK leaves. We still retain the CTA with them, so we’re all good. Naturally in your view, the British don’t contribute to genetic diversity.

I don’t know. Your argument may just be an innocuous brain fart. However, I can’t help but feel there is a covert agenda here. Perhaps skin in the immigration game or something around your own unique personal circumstances?

Wibbs

Wompa1 wrote: »

Total population of the EU is 446 million. We don't have large numbers coming from ALL EU countries. Mainly Polish (declining), Romanian, UK nationals, Italian and Spanish.

Hemochromatosis as one example is relatively high in Italy, Ireland and Spain in particular but is also pretty prevalent in Spain and the UK too. The Romanians will be coveted :pac:

True, but populations in sub Saharan Africa have their own type of iron toxicity also genetic, so you could get a double whammy there. Genetic diversity is a really slim thread to hang an argument for modern multiculturalism on. Never mind that partnerships between groups is a minority overall. The vast majority of people pair up with and have kids with those of the same attractiveness, social background, educational background and cultural and ethnic background and yep "race". Some cultural groups are less likely again to "marry out". Jews for example*, some Middle Easterners and South Asians.






*though they did much more in the past, as European Jewish DNA has a lot of admixture from wherever they were originally "local" to. It's why Hitler and his fcukwits had to bring in the blood laws to have a cut off point for "Jewish" as so many Germans had German Jewish ancestors and vice versa. Even then someone could be marked as up to "half Jewish" and if they didn't follow Jewish religious practices still be included as a member of their reich.

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

However, I can’t help but feel there is a covert agenda here. Perhaps skin in the immigration game or something around your own unique personal circumstances?

I seriously doubt there's any agenda. It's far more likely to be buying into the mantra of diversity is strength stuff that gets a lot of backing in our media and government. Even that isn't automatically agenda driven either. EG much of our TV and Films are produced in America, a multicultural nation with a load of issues around that and lobby groups and people who naturally just want to include non White American faces in productions. Mostly African American faces, Hispanics and Asian Americans less so. There are more Hispanic folks in the US than African American, yet are represented far less on average in the media.

wildeside

I'm not sure if anyone has made the "we need more immigration for an ageing population" point in this thread yet, but it's worth considering that it's just an opinion and is certainly debatable at the very least

https://www.businessinsider.com/aging-population-and-automation-effect-on-economic-growth-2017-3?r=UK

Just another factor to consider in the debate.

Biafranlivemat

If “Diversity is a strength” then 100% Diversity is 100% strength.

Doesn't seem like there is much room for the Native Irish in that Mathematical equation.

Hamachi

Wibbs wrote: »

I seriously doubt there's any agenda. It's far more likely to be buying into the mantra of diversity is strength stuff that gets a lot of backing in our media and government. Even that isn't automatically agenda driven either.

I’m sure you’re right. It’s just a pretty outrageous notion that s/he is propagating. The indigenous Irish need to be genetically diversified to protect against conditions that affect a tiny subset of the population.

If I proposed this for e.g. sub-Saharan Africans or South East Asians, I would be roundly castigated and rightly so. The spectacular ignorance of comments like that just can’t be let go unchallenged.