What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

oholly121

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m sure you’re right. It’s just a pretty outrageous notion that s/he is propagating. The indigenous Irish need to be genetically diversified to protect against conditions that affect a tiny subset of the population.

If I proposed this for e.g. sub-Saharan Africans or South East Asians, I would be roundly castigated and rightly so. The spectacular ignorance of comments like that just can’t be let go unchallenged.

I disagree

There’s way to many high profile people backing mass immigration and shutting down arguments within politics media the arts education and so on!

I don’t think this all comes down to a simple virtue signal about diversity and taking in the most refugees

I agree with him there’s something fishy going on it’s prob v logical such as immigration lawyers low wages etc but this wouldn’t be allowed to continue if someone somewhere or there is a higher Benefit!

Eric Cartman

judging by Dublins Lord Mayor appointment this evening, our cities are about to get a lot more 'diverse'

Hazel chu " She also said that she would tackle discrimination, saying that it wasn’t enough “not to be racist, we have to be anti-racist”.

So hate speech laws, minority priority / minority quotas for social housing and school places id say is on the cards. Im aware she herself can't bring those in but with Leo's ear and the greens in power I could see it happening.

Funny how theres no ministerial appointments from the province they've been forcing to deal with these migrants...

dominatinMC

Eric Cartman wrote: »

judging by Dublins Lord Mayor appointment this evening, our cities are about to get a lot more 'diverse'

Hazel chu " She also said that she would tackle discrimination, saying that it wasn’t enough “not to be racist, we have to be anti-racist”.

So hate speech laws, minority priority / minority quotas for social housing and school places id say is on the cards. Im aware she herself can't bring those in but with Leo's ear and the greens in power I could see it happening.

Funny how theres no ministerial appointments from the province they've been forcing to deal with these migrants...

Ah she's harmless really. She is a bit fond of playing the race card, and the accompanying rhetoric (which is grating), but other than that seems likeable.

oholly121

dominatinMC wrote: »

Ah she's harmless really. She is a bit fond of playing the race card, and the accompanying rhetoric (which is grating), but other than that seems likeable.

Yeah I second this I’d consider myself to be centre right and it’s embarrassing the abuse she gets on Twitter there’s really no need for it!

I believe the family came from Hong Kong which I don’t think is the main crux of the conversation here !

Wibbs

wildeside wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone has made the "we need more immigration for an ageing population" point in this thread yet, but it's worth considering that it's just an opinion and is certainly debatable at the very least

https://www.businessinsider.com/aging-population-and-automation-effect-on-economic-growth-2017-3?r=UK

Just another factor to consider in the debate.

Oh its a point often raised in relation to this push for diversity W. A couple of problems with it, one local, the other more European wide.

The local one is that unlike the majority of other EU nations Ireland has a growing population and the highest birthrate in the EU. We quite simply don’t have the demographic shift or anything like it of the rest. We're not running out of our locals anytime soon. And yet that argument has been wheeled out here. Either through dishonesty, laziness in repeating the same catechism, or stupidity, or all of the above. This kinda illustrates the same “diversity” hymn sheet is being sung from by all who push this politic.

More mainland European wise, for all the talk of open EU borders and we're all Europeans together, you hear little talk of trying to encourage trained and educated Europeans from other EU states with unemployment problems to ones with more opportunities. No German companies setting up employment fairs in Portugal or Greece or Spain, or reporting on them if they exist. Oh no, let's bring in non EU, non Europeans, many if not most who don't have the qualifications and come from quite different cultures into the place to shore up the gaps. That's akin to foregoing your local off licence for a bottle of wine and instead driving to West Clare to a guy who makes blackberry wine in his garage, hoping it doesn't make yo go blind and induce the liquid sit downs. It makes no sense. Unless you have a stake in Clare guy, or you think blackberry wine is better than French Bordeaux, or you're trying to undermine French wine producers for some oddball reason.

dominatinMC wrote:

Ah she's harmless really. She is a bit fond of playing the race card, and the accompanying rhetoric (which is grating), but other than that seems likeable.

and she appeals to the knit your own muesli yoga panted leafy Dublin suburban Green voting types who like to think they're "green" because they buy a new electric car every year and like some "diversity" to telegraph and feel the enlightenment, but by god not too much "diversity".

Eric Cartman

oholly121 wrote: »

Yeah I second this I’d consider myself to be centre right and it’s embarrassing the abuse she gets on Twitter there’s really no need for it!

I believe the family came from Hong Kong which I don’t think is the main crux of the conversation here !

aside from Gemma and her tiny group of fans, Hazel gets very little abuse about her ethnicity or country of origin. However she loves playing the race card and fear any pontification she may use her position to garner ears for will remain unchallenged due to shrieks of racism.

She has openly stated on twitter she wants to end deportations and more financial supports for travellers, both of which I feel are detrimental to our society and need challenge.

dominatinMC

Eric Cartman wrote: »

aside from Gemma and her tiny group of fans, Hazel gets very little abuse about her ethnicity or country of origin. However she loves playing the race card and fear any pontification she may use her position to garner ears for will remain unchallenged due to shrieks of racism.

She has openly stated on twitter she wants to end deportations and more financial supports for travellers, both of which I feel are detrimental to our society and need challenge.

Low-hanging fruit for the politically correct brigade. Just as well she's in a token position, of little actual power then

ExMachina1000

Negotiations are coming to a close with the rebels. A shipment of heaby fully automatic weapons with high velocity rounds will be dispatched from Panama and routed via Cadiz.

biko

Not sure what this ^^^ has to do with the topic of the thread?
I heard it was a robbery.

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

What a ridiculous article

What article? It's just a tweet... and I honestly don't see the problem with wishing someone well... hardly grounds for discussion.

ThunbergsAreGo

Deleted User wrote: »

What article? It's just a tweet... and I honestly don't see the problem with wishing someone well... hardly grounds for discussion.

Whoops absolutely the wrong link!!! I of course wish Andre Wisdom well :eek:

This is the one https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0629/1150259-african-americans-refugee-status-ireland-racism-direct-provision-law/

ThunbergsAreGo

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Whoops absolutely the wrong link!!! I of course wish Andre Wisdom well :eek:

This is the one https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0629/1150259-african-americans-refugee-status-ireland-racism-direct-provision-law/

God, I hope not. We don't need them importing their bias against White people. Let them fix the problems in their own first world country.... and it simply makes a mockery of the whole system to suggest that they can/should apply for refugee status.

Slowyourrole

Deleted User wrote: »

God, I hope not. We don't need them importing their bias against White people. Let them fix the problems in their own first world country.... and it simply makes a mockery of the whole system to suggest that they can/should apply for refugee status.

Black people came from slavery, are more likely to live in poverty, are subject to regular racism, and have very little political power in comparison to white people. I'd hope your solution that they should sort the country themselves is motivated by extreme ignorance and not simply callous disregard for what it means to be under the boot of society.

Wibbs

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Black people came from slavery, are more likely to live in poverty, are subject to regular racism, and have very little political power in comparison to white people. I'd hope your solution that they should sort the country themselves is motivated by extreme ignorance and not simply callous disregard for what it means to be under the boot of society.

I would agree. However I don't see how it's Ireland's problem, nor Ireland's role to offer refugee status to African Americans. That's beyond daft and must have been a slow day in the RTE newsroom, or someone spiked their lattes with acid.

Slowyourrole

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Black people came from slavery, are more likely to live in poverty, are subject to regular racism, and have very little political power in comparison to white people. I'd hope your solution that they should sort the country themselves is motivated by extreme ignorance and not simply callous disregard for what it means to be under the boot of society.

As opposed to your attitude that their past shapes their future and that they're powerless victims who are incapable of instigating change?

They had a reasonably successful civil rights movement under Martin L King, at a time when there was far more racism and discrimination. This attitude that focuses entirely on external problems as excuses for their own lack of development is far worse. There are millions of African Americans who have reasonably good lifestyles (on par with many white Middle class families) , due to their educational accomplishments, and their avoidance of crime. Rather than ask the questions as to why their lives are different, posters like yourself (and many black people) want to focus entirely on the obstacles.

So... no... my attitude is not based on ignorance. I just have zero patience for this victim complex that is so common these days. I appreciate the difficulties that they face, but I won't pander to those who simply want to moan/complain about what a terrible situation they're in.

TBH i feel that my attitude is far better for Black people, than yours is.

jmayo

Well Pat Kenny had so called security expert on this morning discussing how some European talking show have claimed extremism is on the rise in Ireland.
Now that was meant to include islamic extremism, but they concentrated on right wing groups.

And the lady made a big show about how these groups try use things like protests about DP centres, etc as a cover to insidiously try recruit people.
They mentioned the web and how people can be influenced by right wingers from UK, Europe, USA.
Sorry lads she didn't name drop all us fascist right wingers here on boards.

When asked about what these groups have done she talked about vandalism, broken windows, graffiti, verbal abuse type stuff.
Then she mentioned how a lot of the stuff is not reported since people reckon the guards can't do anything to find them.

Then when asked to name these groups she said she couldn't because, well they aren't groups it's more of a movement.
I thought she was going to resort to quoting Arlo Guthries Alice's Restaurant lyrics to explain to us the differences.

And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day
Walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends
They may think it's a Movement,

And the whole time they ignored the real terrorist extremists in our midst, the ones linked to ISIS, muslim brotherhood, al-qeada.
The ones money laundering and managing funds for these organisations.
The fact we have had suicide bombers bred and raised in this state.

So much for our media.

Granadino

Deleted User wrote: »

There are millions of African Americans who have reasonably good lifestyles (on par with many white Middle class families) , due to their educational accomplishments, and their avoidance of crime. Rather than ask the questions as to why their lives are different, posters like yourself (and many black people) want to focus entirely on the obstacles.

It would be interesting to hear about any of the obstacles that these people faced in their reasonably good lifestyles compared to many white middle class families...

In this day and age, I find the term "African American" obsolete. American.

Hoboo

endacl wrote: »

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

Beef and Guinness stew. You'd destroy it.

Unfortunately you don't just get spice.......you get lard, rotten meat and the dregs of the compost bin too.

SFC1895

To be honest, the Geneva Convention has been undermined so much that I think African-Americans in this instance would have a far greater need for protection than the Albanians and Georgians who rock up in this country.

Of course, African-Americans should simply seek refuge in Canada if they fear persecution.

Granadino

Granadino wrote: »

It would be interesting to hear about any of the obstacles that these people faced in their reasonably good lifestyles compared to many white middle class families...

In this day and age, I find the term "African American" obsolete. American.

Whereas I find American to be an obsolete terms. Identity politics has ensured that their nation is fractured and everyone is making connections with different groups rather than unifying under a single nationality. But then, the US has always been very vague about being american.

wildeside

jmayo wrote: »

And the whole time they ignored the real terrorist extremists in our midst, the ones linked to ISIS, muslim brotherhood, al-qeada.
The ones money laundering and managing funds for these organisations.
The fact we have had suicide bombers bred and raised in this state.

So much for our media.

You see there's no moral virtue or superiority to be gained by discussing that obvious problem. It's very safe and socially rewarding to talk about the "fascists" lurking under every bed.


To not discuss problems like this


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden



is a real societal ill. Sweden is the single most open, progressive, egalitarian, inclusive country in Europe, if not the world, and look at the end result of their implementation of immigration, integration and multiculturalism. 2nd only to Mexico in the world for grenade attacks. Bravo Sweden, bravo. When you are blinded by ideology relality can more easily punch you in the face.

I am centre left and have been all my life. The vast majority of my friends are. But I see a huge unwillingness on the left to acceopt or even think it possible that there might be some serious issues to address all because it makes people uncomfortable.

This lack of engagement with difficult issues is sometimes due to cowardice, sometimes ideological blindness and sometimes just simple ("why can't we all just get along?") childish naievte.

And sure some racists and bigots and xenophobes will jump on these talking points and exploit them to their own ends. But should that stop reasonable people having a reasonable adult conversation about these issues? F&*k no. People have to defend the right to a peaceful and prosperous society for all its citizens and that can only be acheived through debate, as uncomfortable as it might be sometimes.

SFC1895

wildeside wrote: »

You see there's no moral virtue or superiority to be gained by discussing that obvious problem. It's very safe and socially rewarding to talk about the "fascists" lurking under every bed.


To not discuss problems like this


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden



is a real societal ill. Sweden is the single most open, progressive, egalitarian, inclusive country in Europe, if not the world, and look at the end result of their implementation of immigration, integration and multiculturalism. 2nd only to Mexico in the world for grenade attacks. Bravo Sweden, bravo. When you are blinded by ideology relality can more easily punch you in the face.

I am centre left and have been all my life. The vast majority of my friends are. But I see a huge unwillingness on the left to acceopt or even think it possible that there might be some serious issues to address all because it makes people uncomfortable.

This lack of engagement with difficult issues is sometimes due to cowardice, sometimes ideological blindness and sometimes just simple ("why can't we all just get along?") childish naievte.

And sure some racists and bigots and xenophobes will jump on these talking points and exploit them to their own ends. But should that stop reasonable people having a reasonable adult conversation about these issues? F&*k no. People have to defend the right to a peaceful and prosperous society for all its citizens and that can only be acheived through debate, as uncomfortable as it might be sometimes.

Absolutely this.

TomTomTim

wildeside wrote: »

You see there's no moral virtue or superiority to be gained by discussing that obvious problem. It's very safe and socially rewarding to talk about the "fascists" lurking under every bed.


To not discuss problems like this


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_in_Sweden



is a real societal ill. Sweden is the single most open, progressive, egalitarian, inclusive country in Europe, if not the world, and look at the end result of their implementation of immigration, integration and multiculturalism. 2nd only to Mexico in the world for grenade attacks. Bravo Sweden, bravo. When you are blinded by ideology relality can more easily punch you in the face.

I am centre left and have been all my life. The vast majority of my friends are. But I see a huge unwillingness on the left to acceopt or even think it possible that there might be some serious issues to address all because it makes people uncomfortable.

This lack of engagement with difficult issues is sometimes due to cowardice, sometimes ideological blindness and sometimes just simple ("why can't we all just get along?") childish naievte.

And sure some racists and bigots and xenophobes will jump on these talking points and exploit them to their own ends. But should that stop reasonable people having a reasonable adult conversation about these issues? F&*k no. People have to defend the right to a peaceful and prosperous society for all its citizens and that can only be acheived through debate, as uncomfortable as it might be sometimes.

One of my mothers friends goes out with a Swed. She'd be as politically correct as your average woman, who goes along with it but isn't deeply committed. I was shocked to hear her mention the problems with migrant crime in Sweden. She did it in a pubic venue, and even though she was willing to say it, she still had some guilt after it left her mouth. She was deeply worried about how it would be perceived by others even though it was true. That's the modern world for you, people being forced to live on a mountain of lies, scared to talk about anything no matter how true it is.

Dyr

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Black people came from slavery, are more likely to live in poverty, are subject to regular racism, and have very little political power in comparison to white people. I'd hope your solution that they should sort the country themselves is motivated by extreme ignorance and not simply callous disregard for what it means to be under the boot of society.

Curse those racist Yanks with their bars on Black People voting or holding office

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Curse those racists Yanks with their bars on Black People voting or holding office

Or from starting businesses creating competitive systems in a capitalistic society... feeding money back into the communities to build them up, and be in a better position to offer educational opportunities, and employment for Black people. The lack of wealth translates into lack of political power, and they have the ability to generate wealth through the creation of businesses, which service peoples needs.

biko

Does multiculturalism also mean Brits buying properties and living in enclaves in Spain, many not learning Spanish nor interacting with the locals?

biko

biko wrote: »

Does multiculturalism also mean Brits buying properties and living in enclaves in Spain, many not learning Spanish nor interacting with the locals?

Nah.. white people going somewhere else isn't multiculturalism, that's colonialism or imperialism. Now, if it was Black/Brown British people moving to Spain then, that would be multiculturalism.

As time goes by, It's seems less and less about sharing culture and more about race/ethnicity being the important factor.

Geuze

TomTomTim wrote: »

That's the modern world for you, people being forced to live on a mountain of lies, scared to talk about anything no matter how true it is.

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/06/how-to-live-in-world-gone-mad.html

Hoboo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nah.. white people going somewhere else isn't multiculturalism, that's colonialism or imperialism. Now, if it was Black/Brown British people moving to Spain then, that would be multiculturalism.

As time goes by, It's seems less and less about sharing culture and more about race/ethnicity being the important factor.

Some cultures or parts of I'd prefer to avoid thanks, a clitoris or foreskin is meant to remain attached, other than for medical reasons. Sky Fairy demands that require mutilation have no place in any culture.

Granadino

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas I find American to be an obsolete terms. Identity politics has ensured that their nation is fractured and everyone is making connections with different groups rather than unifying under a single nationality. But then, the US has always been very vague about being american.

I agree, they should just call people "American". Worst offenders are "Irish Americans" or "Italian Americans", who are most definitely just Americans to me.