What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

26-01-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536352#Comment_118536352

As I said, price is determined by supply and demand.

Even if immigrants don't buy, they have to live somewhere, and increase the demand for rented houses, and making it more profitable to rent out houses.

Supply is the other side of the equation, and we need to increase supply, but is the suppy side maxed out? Can we increase supply for the increase indemand? Who will build the houses?

Much of the focus by the government has been on the supply side, and nothing on the demand side.

MarkEadie · 26-01-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535842#Comment_118535842

Good point. It is indeed an example of an incontrovertible fact. The lines get blurred when opinions are presented as facts which makes it difficult to have genuine discussions unfortunately.

Glock17 · 26-01-2022 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536399#Comment_118536399

Yeah, good point.

So I think we all agree mass immigration has increased house prices.

Stands to reason that mass immigration has also reduced wages:(

So affordability for irish people buying houses is even lower :(

26-01-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536617#Comment_118536617

How exactly has it reduced wages? In the last 30 years or so, wages have grown enormously

MarkEadie · 26-01-2022 6:12pm

Eastern europeans are the biggest migrant groups in Ireland. Mainly Polish. It's a shame people want to kick Polish and other Eastern Europeans out of Ireland. The fact is we are in the EU and the EU has been pivotal in the development of Ireland (to date they have given Ireland ~40 billion euro to improve itself, which has enhanced the country to no end).

26-01-2022 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536240#Comment_118536240

I agree it would put a dent into the demand for housing, but it wouldn't resolve the problems that exist. Our situation is there due to decades of mismanagement culminating into what we have today. Also I said the State.. not governments. Both are to blame, but the State has a greater responsibility for the condition of the nation in regards to property. People tend to forget just how much influence the civil service, and state bodies have over property concerns, and the range of rules that block developments.

In any case, I'll leave it at that. The property crisis tends to take over threads, and becomes emotionally charged. Not the kind of discussion I'm interested in pursuing.

One eyed Jack · 26-01-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536617#Comment_118536617

I can actually picture you having a good chuckle to yourself right now, but look I’d a few chuckles myself this morning and that’s one thing that really is sorely missing from this thread, is for all our back and forth about defining or defending Irish culture, multiculturalism, immigration and all the rest of it, the thread is quare light on humour, something which the Irish are world renowned for, although reading this thread you’d never know it.

This is probably my favourite international interpretation of Irish society and culture 😁

https://youtu.be/eirq4laOhcU

Glock17 · 26-01-2022 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536637#Comment_118536637

It's this thing called "supply and demand". If you have more of something it reduces the price. More workers reduces wages.

26-01-2022 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536501#Comment_118536501

Speaking of which, I'm still waiting on your evidence that places me as a supporter of the national party... or even evidence of your other claims earlier.

Either you're oblivious to your hypocrisy in pointing to opinions over facts, or you're simply full of it.

One eyed Jack · 26-01-2022 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536662#Comment_118536662

That’s not a demonstration of the principle of supply and demand? If anything it’s a demonstration of saturation.

One of the reasons why immigration is necessary is because of shortages in the labour market, ie - supply cannot meet demand. It doesn’t follow that there is any impact on wages, either positive or negative, when the demand can be filled from outside the local labour market.

That applies to any industry, whether it’s the demand for labour in the healthcare provision sector, or childcare, or sectors which come under the umbrella term of ‘fintech’.

Your argument also implies the property market exists in a vacuum, as though housing is just a flat rate per property, when that’s simply not reality. Property prices vary considerably by the type of property and location. It’s simply a fact that some areas are more desirable than others, and some people can afford to live there, and some people can’t.

That’s not even getting into supply and demand of rental properties where the property market is artificially inflated to give an impression of increased demand and lack of supply.

Strumms · 26-01-2022 6:51pm

If there is a shortage of skilled labour we should admit those applying to come here who have the necessary skills to assist the area of said shortage…

Benefits those skilled individuals and their families and us…

TomTomTim · 26-01-2022 6:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536639#Comment_118536639

What? Who wants to kick them out? I don't think I've ever heard EE's even mentioned in this discussion, not by most of us at least. Even if they were, they are less relevant, as a massive amount of them will move home eventually, as they simply don't view Ireland as their home.

26-01-2022 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536662#Comment_118536662

So explain the.enormous rise in wages over the last 30 years or so.........

jmayo · 26-01-2022 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536161#Comment_118536161

I simply can't believe some of the shyte you come out with.

Of course you will tell us you, your family and your myriad of friends have no issues with sourcing property.

If only it was so well for everyone.

Klaz is right in ways the Irish property system has a lot more issues than immigrants.

And here for this discussion I will lump in illegal immigrants, visa approved Non EU immigrants, EU immigrants, asylum seekers, refuggees, every fooker that is not resident in Ireland or from Ireland that turns up at our shores.

But bubblysquat and One Eyed "war & peace" are way off the mark claiming immigration has no effects on our property market.

Immigrants have had major effects on our housing market.

Educated immigrants with good jobs (health sector, especially multinationals) can often afford to spend more than a lot of natives on accommodation and can price some people out of the market that 25 odd years ago they could buy or especially rent in.

(yes 25 years I am using as basis because back then you were about to get the real dotcom bubble with influx of techs into Ireland.)

Since then we have had increased immigration of some sort or another.

On other end you have lower skilled immigrants arriving usually legally and they all need accommodation.

They have major effect on rental market and I would say the first time buyers market.

And then you have the ones that washed up on our shores from God knows where and they often end up on the housing list pushing native Irish down the list.

Now how anyone can argue with a straight face that all these immigrants have no effect on different brackets of Irish accommodation seekers is frankly laughable.

Actually they are insulting our intelligence with that tripe.

Oh and using bubbly method of argument I will give examples of people I know.

A couple of South African IT guys that have bought houses in Ireland.

A couple of Poles that have bought houses in Ireland.

A couple of South Americans that have bought houses/apartments in Ireland.

Then there are the Poles, Lithuanians, Indians, Chinese people I know that are renting in Ireland.

Now I guess all these added people have no effect on the availability of accommodation for any Irish person at all.

Oh and as for the usual refrain from bubbly about how a lot of the immigrant numbers are actually natives returning to Ireland, do they not need some type of accommodation or they all move back into the spare room with their parents ? 🙄

26-01-2022 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536864#Comment_118536864

The need to match the value of salaries with the costs of living... employers need to remain competitive in providing salaries, otherwise headhunting services would take away all valuable employees.

And when taking into account the rises in cost of living, along with hikes in taxation, the actual value of salary increases isn't that valuable. Also when considering the average salaries in Ireland it's worth considering that there haven't been enormous increases for everyone, it's mostly related to those at the upper bracket of the career ladders, and those in the Public service.

26-01-2022 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537004#Comment_118537004

You come across as so angry! I think it's great that the people that live here have bought houses, are you not happy for your friends? Of course there are issues sourcing property, but unlike you I don't blame the immigrants for that.

yes Irish people returning need accommodation, do you think they shouldn't?

I love the way Klaz is right in saying there are a lot of other issues, but you can't see that I said the same thing! 😂

And blaming immigration is just an easy blame. You may as well say what if the hundreds of thousands of Irish who emigrated didn't go?

MarkEadie · 26-01-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536842#Comment_118536842

EE's are the biggest number of immigrants here. The discussion I've seen is about housing, wages, resources etc. I have most of the people in the thread on my ignore list though. People are complaining about immigrants causing housing, wage issues and all the rest. The largest number of immigrants by a long long way are EEs. I think they don't really understand the concept of the EU and what Ireland has gained from being a member. And yes many EEs here to stay and consider Ireland home now. There were many of the usual idiots complaining about Slovakians in Ireland recently as I'm sure you know..

One eyed Jack · 26-01-2022 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537004#Comment_118537004

Generally I can’t be arsed to address the amount of points you manage to squeeze into such a small post (it’s a credit to you, trust me 😂), but I’ll just address two. This one first -

And then you have the ones that washed up on our shores from God knows where and they often end up on the housing list pushing native Irish down the list.

There is no pushing anyone up or down any housing list. Anyone is either on a waiting list for accommodation, or they aren’t. Applicants eligibility for accommodation is determined by need, not this idea of their position on an imaginary national database or whatever concept you have of a national housing list. Immigrants aren’t pushing anyone down any housing list.

Second point - immigration has both positive and negative effects on the property and rental markets. The effects cancel each other out, effectively meaning that immigration has no impact on property and rental markets.

enricoh · 26-01-2022 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533470#Comment_118533470

Call a halt to it?- we are going to turbo charge it! All politicians and media are fully onboard.

The justice minister has given an amnesty to all in direct provision for 2 years and over. There is also a scheme to Regularise illegals here which includes asylum seekers who disappeared into the ether when they were supposed to be deported.

To top it all off the minister over direct provision Roderick o gorman is pushing for all asylum seekers to get the keys to their own pad and full welfare within 4 months of arriving here!

And lads on here will tell you that that won't affect the housing crisis!

Strumms · 26-01-2022 8:18pm

Exactly and when people who have paid a lifetime of tax to go to need medical assistance as in a spell in the NRH or Doolaghs Park they’ll be told ’funding not available’…

housing, healthcare, transport all oversubscribed…

Glock17 · 26-01-2022 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536864#Comment_118536864

Thanks very much for demonstrating how poor the arguments are from the "mass immigration is wonderful" side of the debate....

In the UK I worked for a very large company. We were given a briefing from senior management about the drawbacks of Brexit....

One of the drawbacks was my employer had to pay higher wages to attract staff..

More workers means lower wages.... you might not be able to understand that. However most people here would understand that intuitively.....

Sunny Disposition · 26-01-2022 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537129#Comment_118537129

Immigration has an impact on the property market. Of course it does. If there is a lot of immigration to an area there is more demand for property. That’s really basic. Again, it’d be nice if it was not the case, if large numbers of people immigrating for a number of years didn’t mean higher prices than there would be otherwise, but it is inevitable.

Glock17 · 26-01-2022 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536839#Comment_118536839

Yeah, good idea.

Why dont you tell us what you do for a living? Then we can flood Ireland with people that will do your job for half your salary?

26-01-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537240#Comment_118537240

And yet that hasn't happened, so no matter what you may think is intuitive, the wages have gone up.

Brexit, such a bad idea!

26-01-2022 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537272#Comment_118537272

Research shows a small impact of overall immigration on the employment and unemployment rates of UK-born workers

A number of studies have examined whether immigration leads to higher unemployment or inactivity among existing workers, and most have found either small effects or no effect.

Reviewing the results of 12 studies conducted between 2003 and 2018, the Migration Advisory Committee (2018) drew three conclusions. First, that immigration has little or no impact on average employment or unemployment of existing workers. Second, that where an impact is found it tends to be concentrated among certain groups – i.e. a negative effect for those with lower education and a positive effect for those with higher levels of education. And third, that the impact may depend on the economic cycle; some—though not all—studies have found adverse effects on employment or unemployment specifically during downturns.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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Research shows a small impact of overall immigration on the employment and unemployment rates of UK-born workers