What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539937#Comment_118539937

On top of what I've just mentioned, it was regular for posters like that to come into certain threads and go: "boards hates, immigrants, travellers, and people on welfare". The last two groups are usually natives, yet said narrative always gets dropped when it's convenient.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539922#Comment_118539922

the point is that government policies make it more worthwhile for some people to stay in welfare rather then work. Change those policies and people will work.

Everybody is allowed to.work in Ireland, including asylum seekers, make.it.worth people's while to work, and the majority will work. There is provision to send EU citizens home, if they cannot support themselves, it's there, I have no issue with it being used.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540022#Comment_118540022

The reality is that a lot of asylum seekers etc are virtually unemployable....

There really aren't many jobs for someone that doesnt speak English.....

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539571#Comment_118539571

I can't believe we are having to debate this with adults.

It is a bit like how some think that there is a bottomless money pit so that extra money spent in one area has absolutely no effect on spending elsewhere.

It can’t possibly be so surprising to you that people don’t share your opinions. Nobody imagines there’s a bottomless pit of money any more than I thought most people are aware that the housing waiting lists on any city or county council are not prioritised in the way some people think, but here we are!

I can kinda understand it because 20 odd years ago when I was homeless myself, I’d no idea about all this stuff either or supports that were available, I just didn’t know about them because I’d never been homeless - I had no need to know, so I can understand why people have difficulty wrapping their heads around a concept that’s so foreign to them.

If someone’s circumstances change, then their details are updated obviously, and suitable accommodation might become available, depends upon what’s actually available, like the €700k apartments that DCC has on their books, 19 of ‘em, and they’re not all occupied by tenants with families, or children or what have you, while a woman with children, one of whom has a disability, is still being housed in emergency accommodation. It happens, up and down the country, and there are numerous contributing factors.

Immigration, IS a contributing factor, but, and here’s the point anyone really, really needs to grasp - the negative effects of immigration on the property and rental markets, are cancelled out by the positive effects of immigration on the property and rental market. They’re not the same market - property is the purchase of goods, rental is the purchase of services. Immigration overall, has a net negligible impact on either market.

What has a greater impact on the property and rental markets are for a start - developers paying the cost of social housing developments so they don’t have to make 20% of any development available for social housing, mortgage defaulters, ghettoisation and gentrification.

Similar effects such as ghettoisation and gentrification are observed in the rental market, and there are all sorts of regulations and conditions which have a greater impact on the rental market than either the presence or absence of immigrants, whether they’re a sole tenant in the property, or there’s as many as ten of them packed into a two bedroom apartment the size of a shoebox paying eye watering rents in DCC or some backwater in Roscommon under the management of one of the many housing bodies on behalf of the council or a private rental from an unprofessional landlord.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536161#Comment_118536161

So if adding to demand side doesn't make it harder, I assume you and One Eyed feel building more houses, or increasing supply won't ease the housing issues?

Though there are of course other factors at play, it is a factor. And to be clear I in no way blame the people

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541640#Comment_118541640

What housing issues are you hoping to address? I’ve already pointed out that there are numerous unfinished ghost estates dotted up and down the country. Nobody who has lived in an urban environment all their lives wants to live rural where the infrastructure is underdeveloped. Decentralisation of Government departments was tried a few years back and it was a complete failure. Huge amounts of money were spent, for something which came to nothing.

The kind of figures people are complaining about of the kind of money being spent on housing immigrants is like saying 10c is far too much money to be spending on anything, and ignoring the fact that €10 is wasted annually on frivolous vanity projects. Obviously that figure is billions, but I’m just using relatable figures for the sake of making the point.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541686#Comment_118541686

I completely agree with you on vanity projects and the waste amongst the political classes (and media).

Take the recent scheme announced to regularise people who are in the country illegally. 20k plus, likely 5k immediately onto housing lists, and no mention of any possible negative impact on housing supply. Never mind the scheme was announced with no cap and zero idea how many may apply.

Again not blaming the people, I blame the mostly Irish political and media class for refusing to actual look or attempt to weigh up costs and benefits.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541918#Comment_118541918

You can be absolutely guaranteed costs and benefits have been weighed up, not quite to the last cent (Govt depts can’t even keep track of petty cash, apparently 😏), but certainly they would weigh up the costs and benefits in terms of getting value for the taxpayer.

It might not look like it, hell it never looks like it, but that’s precisely because we don’t have all the details to hand. Me personally, I don’t tend to lose any sleep over it. Housing supply and all that stuff is a far more complex issue than pointing fingers at any particular group in Irish society and looking to hold them accountable for things they aren’t and couldn’t possibly be responsible for.

I doubt there are all that many people who rely on traditional media either to inform their opinions about anything tbh, it’s one thing I actually can’t blame the media for, because they’re only giving people what people are interested in consuming, in order to generate revenue for themselves - they’re a business, not a charity.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542111#Comment_118542111

I actually asked for a cost benefit analysis on that and was denied, the figure of 16k spread within been media has very little basis.

You have way way more faith on our civil service and politicians than me 😂.

Housing is indeed a very complex subject, which is precisely why immigration should be part of the discussion. Our Economic success as a country leads to economic immigration which impact housing, and will continue to.

To boil it down to grrr its the governments fault (or its solely immigration) is over simplifying a very complex issue.

Also given the constant begging from some media organisations for donations, I could argue the last point 😂

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538576#Comment_118538576

lol Good post. The double standard is so obvious. You just have to look at other threads where they give themselves away. Consistency just isn't there. It's the same when it comes to tras issues. All of a sudden some people who never cared about womens sport and say derogatory things about it are social justice warriors for womens sports. It's generally the same double standard for a lot of womens rights issues actually. Abortion is another one. If you show you don't care about womens rights and have incel type opinions about women then your credibility is shot to pieces when you present yourself as a social justice warrior womens rights advocate to try to demonise people whether it's trans or eastern europeans in Ireland as we saw after the recent situation in Tullamore or in fact women themselves when they fight and struggle for their own rights. People that are usually on the opposite side when women want basic rights just have no credibility when they present themselves differently as it's too transparent. I'm sure any woman reading is nodding in agreement. I think there is an insult of womens intelligence there, as if they are too stupid to realize what is going on.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542195#Comment_118542195

Double standards?

You have a LGBT flag as your profile. Yet you come on here supporting importing people that hate the LGBT community?

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542248#Comment_118542248

Proving my point beautifully. Do you think members of the LGBT community are stupid enough to think you actually care about LGBT issues? Gay marriage, trans issues etc etc etc, many people who are vehemently on the opposite side of LGBT people who fight for basic rights are now suddenly LGBT social justice warriors when immigration is concerned. It's hilarious how people like you become social justice warriors for LGBT issues only when immigration is being discussed and think that LGBT people are stupid enough to not see through you. It reminds me of Gemma O Doherty campaigning to Panti Bliss for the LGBT vote when she was going for presidency.

She was politely told where to shove her presidency. By everyone.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542508#Comment_118542508

Well obviously the LGBT community has its fair share of stupid people. Just like every other community out there.

I just dont understand why you are defending cultures that quite frankly hate the LGBT community.....

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542840#Comment_118542840

I just dont understand why you are defending cultures that quite frankly hate the LGBT community.....

You’re quite clearly only pretending you don’t understand the false dilemma you’re creating. There’s nobody is defending cultures that quite frankly hate the LGBT community, because nobody agrees with the way you’re choosing to frame immigrants views on the basis of their membership of a religious community.

Do you honestly imagine that there isn’t a large crossover between Muslims who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender? In a population of 2Bn people? I’d suggest you can’t possibly be so dense that you actually believe that.

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542931#Comment_118542931

Exactly. It's just bizarre how some people blatantly try to insult the intelligence of women or LGBT people and think that they are not as transparent as it gets. I think some people think that women or LGBT people in these instances are just not smart enough to realize that these people are trying to use them and don't care about them at all and actively are AGAINST their fight for basic rights. Again I have to use the example of Gemma O'Doherty because it's apt but how on earth did she think that LGBT people would support her in any respect whatsoever? You genuinely have to have an inability to empathize with people or just see things from others point of view. At a basic level it's also just an inability to understand how you're coming across.

This is why people just don't engage with these people generally - it's difficult to understand how to engage with people who just can't grasp very simple concepts. It's completely pointless really as you saw with the response to my previous post, the poster just reiterates the same thing and proves my point without realizing it.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542931#Comment_118542931

When I was in the Middle East one of my housemates was a homosexual Palestinian.... he was actually a pretty sound guy.....

However I'm also aware that in some parts of the world throwing the LGBT community off buildings is like a national sport.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543012#Comment_118543012

Immigrants who throw people off buildings will fit right in with bouncy castle Catholics so! Win win for everyone and a new national sport, just put nets up or something 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542840#Comment_118542840

Don't be so sure that Mark is part of the LGBQ community... there's a lot of people these days who assume other peoples causes, and are "active" in their name. The funny thing about many LGBQ community events is that you'll find a lot of straight people at the events, many of whom are more enthusiastic about LGBTQ than most LGBQ themselves. (Yes, I tend to use LGBQ because the T is a separate issue entirely, and I don't see the causes involved as being related.)

Considering the manner of his posts, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he has assumed the place of being supportive of the LGBTQ issues, because he can trigger more people by doing so. The fact that he raised Trans issues as the main proponent behind his post... yeah.

Lastly, I never really expect straight people to be too concerned with LGBQ issues, probably because most LGB people aren't too concerned with our supposed issues. We got equality, and protection.. beyond that, it's just people making waves. And generally, LGB people aren't terribly interested in foreign cultures, and their views on our sexuality. Its the same way that feminists rarely care too much about the rights of women in the M.East, except when it supports their own stance on something at home. Soundbites abound.

The simple truth is that most LGB people know not to borrow trouble. We're too focused on ensuring that western cultures don't revert to past behaviors.. rather than worrying about foreign cultures. And TBH, Its not really a serious concern for their influence in Western nations. They're not going to convince others to support them on these issues, because they're seen as being too extreme (taken into context with recent history). They'll make other changes first.. because any real moves against gay people will generate too much resistance against them. Probably changes that relate to religion, connecting with women's rights and the use of children (FGM, Child marriages, etc).

One eyed Jack

And people say our cultures aren’t compatible 😏

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543036#Comment_118543036

there's a lot of people these days who assume other peoples causes, and are "active" in their name.

Indeed, like the number of people who assume a cause like the hardworking taxpayer, or the Irish people, and are “active” in their name.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542144#Comment_118542144

You have contradicted yourself saying that immigration should not be part of the discussion then saying economic immigration effects housing !!

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543494#Comment_118543494

They said immigration SHOULD be part of the discussion about housing. I agree, it should be, but what’s being done here is the reverse - housing is being made part of the discussion about immigration, where it just doesn’t belong, precisely because immigration has no real impact one way or the other on housing - house prices going up or down affects everyone, not just those looking to buy or sell property or rent accommodation whether they’re a landlord or a tenant.

It’s just a ridiculous “immigrants push house prices up”, vague claim with nothing behind it, completely removed from reality as if it’s yet another reason why the Irish economy (not just Irish people), why the Irish economy doesn’t need immigration, to grow. In reality, the Irish economic model absolutely does need immigration, and badly.

One of the problems with the Irish economic model is it doesn’t encourage immigrants to actually stay here long-term and put down roots, because they’re as susceptible to economic market forces as everyone else.

Glock17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543623#Comment_118543623

Ive already posted academic evidence that shows house prices go up 1.4% for each 1% increase in population....

So you want the Irish economy to grow by mass immigration? Yeah, immigration makes the Irish economy bigger. However since the economic "cake" is betting shared between more people it makes irish people poorer.....

Does anyone think foreign Uber drivers are really doing much for the economy? Or how about east European beggars?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543683#Comment_118543683

Sweet suffering Jesus, Mary and Joseph! 😖

Read the first sentence of your own post again, and then read it again, and again!

Ive already posted academic evidence that shows house prices go up 1.4% for each 1% increase in population....

Where in that sentence does it suggest anything about immigration?

And where have I ever suggested that it is by mass immigration that I even think the population would grow, or that I think the population could grow just by mass immigration? And that’s even before there could be any discussion about the impact of immigration on the Irish economy.

With your logic you could just as well blame emigrants for leaving Ireland, as the cause of the Irish economy being flushed down the shìtter because it’s unable to sustain itself.

And that’s before we even discussed the effects of immigration in Europe.

And for the love of God you can stop pretending you actually care about the welfare of Irish people when it’s plain as day you’re only using it as an attempt to stir up anti-immigration sentiment. You mentioned earlier in the thread that you can’t talk about it and all the rest of it, and the media aren’t telling the Irish people whatever.

If you actually believe your position is that strong, and you actually genuinely care as much as you claim you do about the future of Irish people, then it stands to reason that in order to counter this political elites, media narrative you claim is suppressing popular opinion, is there something preventing you from running for political office representing what you believe is in the interests of the Irish people? According to your own beliefs you’d have no issues gaining majority, even popular support, for your ideas, unless you actually do know that it’s BS and you wouldn’t have a hope of being elected. Tell me again though how you think immigrants are going to take over Europe, or even Ireland, when they can’t even qualify for political representation 😒

Maybe they have a master plan that if they can’t kill us all off with decent food, they’ll starve us to death waiting for it to be delivered 🙄

malinheader

Does everyone not agree that if you come here to work and add to society your welcome. But if you're coming for social welfare benefits and do not like western culture then you should be denied entry and if discovered deported asap. Also court appearance for crimes immediate deportation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542111#Comment_118542111

Having worked in finance for 20 years in the public sector, I would seriously doubt if the costs and benefits were weighted up. This decision came ffrom the top, they don't even know the numbers of people involved.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543748#Comment_118543748

100%. Perhaps if all of the alleged "racists" posts stating this was stickied at the top of each page it might stop the wokesters constantly ignoring this fact.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543748#Comment_118543748

Thats it in a nutshell, only far right or far left people would disagree with this. TBH Europe is what will put a stop to it eventually and we will have to follow on, we will have our share of bogus asylum seekers after setting up a life of a welfare but we should be spared any major negative impacts from mass immigration as Europe are realizing how failed it is and we will have to follow their guidelines line in future.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544014#Comment_118544014

I know what you mean, it’s why I said in the post that it never looks like it, but the costs and benefits are weighed up in terms of value to the taxpayer. It’s a function of the public accounts committee I have no doubt you’re familiar with -

The Committee of Public Accounts (PAC) is a standing committee of Dáil Éireann which focuses on ensuring public services are run efficiently and achieve value for money.

FWIW, I completely agree with you, and before yesterday when I read that the Secretary General salary is almost €300k, I would have said public servants are underpaid for the work they do. I still believe that they are, most of them anyway, but it’s a difficult argument to make when this happens -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/robert-watt-confirms-he-receives-full-294-920-salary-at-department-of-health-1.4786056

At least he had the decency to waive the pay increase until the economy improved. I work in the private sector in ERP, and reading that yesterday it definitely occurred to me “I’m in the wrong job altogether!” 😳

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544066#Comment_118544066

It's not going to change that much. Most European nations retain established industries which are labor intensive, and there's been no sign of any real desire to focus on inter-EU migration to fill demands as opposed to drawing from outside the EU.

Multiculturalism is under review. The lack of successful integration is under review. Assimilation is still off the table. Europe hasn't given up its desire to adopt short-sighted feel-good approaches towards foreign born populations.

The corner is being approached... not that it's been taken. There's still plenty of scope for European nations to continue parts of their past policies, and honestly, considering the political parties that tend to gain power, they're likely to continue those past policies, just under different packaging.

There's been some talk, and some hardening on policy.. but nobody has come up with any effective plans for dealing with mass immigration. It's still all smoke and mirrors at the moment. So, I wouldn't suggest anyone start to relax, thinking that we've dodged a bullet.

Ireland receives roughly 60k mgrants a year right now... that's going to continue, and if anything will increase as places like Denmark limit their migration quotas. So, we're still firmly in the crosshairs, and our governments still haven't any truly effective action plans to ensure integration.