What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823314#Comment_118823314

We'll considering I lived in the Balkans which I have mentioned many times, yes I know many people who returned home after their wars, It is their home after all.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823501#Comment_118823501

I never heard anyone say all refugees are on welfare, just plenty of studies show that a disproportionate number are.

Cost of living is higher here than ukraine- bad day you don't learn something! U may find wages n welfare are higher here too Mark.

So we got 40 billion n now owe 240 billion- sounds great!

Is 200k refugees enough Mark or should we be doing more? Never know , maybe next week it will be more anyhow!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823455#Comment_118823455

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823477#Comment_118823477

Not shutting down the discussion, merely pointing out the decision has been made already, they will have a 3 year visa, full access to employment, health and education services

As for the exact visa type, I'm guessing its a stamp 4 ( that would match the above) but it could be something else, they haven't released specifics as far as I am aware. If its stamp 4 then yes, the time in residence is reckonable towards a citizenship application. Personally, I have no issue with that. It they wish to become full citizens let them, it will make zero difference in what they can access / contribute

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822766#Comment_118822766

Odessa is a known scam hub. It was one of the major credit card laundering locations. It’s involvement in credit card fraud is well known going back years. When I heard it mentioned as an art and comedy location on the news I had to laugh. The only artist there are conartists. If anyone read darkmarket by Misha Glenny it should be bringing back memories.

Ireland has a very high standard of living. I didn’t realise how poor places like southern Italy were until I was there. Salaries here are far over Southern European standards. The idea that you can take in this influx of refugees during a time of market instability and not having consequences to the standard of services and welfare is lunacy. You can expect a social welfare cut not far off and more health service issues too.

I see the opposition eventually is asking for an estimate on the cost of all this.

I also wonder how many offers will last when people have screaming kids running around their home with PTSD. It’s fine for most peoples people short term but months or years latter I wonder how many will be so generous.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823174#Comment_118823174

Great, how many can we squeeze into your place? Sure you could share your room with the rest of your family and squeeze a few families in your other rooms. Then feed them out of your own pocket, sure it’s the right thing to do?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823613#Comment_118823613

I think the point worth considering is that even if every refugee was to go on welfare for just two months, enough time to find work (which is doubtful considering demand, skill-sets and language restrictions), that two month period for two hundred thousand people would cost an absolute fortune, because of the extra costs of providing services to refugees, from housing to psychiatric care (PTSD).

It's far more likely that refugees will remain on welfare for an extended period (-6 months) before finding adequate employment that provides the income needed to be independent, and even then, likely there will be a need for supplementary income supports (and it's questionable whether they will be able to afford or even find independent rental properties, and so, remain a drain on social housing).

So, should we consider that refugees will work, and will seek to become financially independent, what kind of cost is that to the State? Even in the short term, it's a rather heavy investment of resources, and will require an expansion of our international debt, because we both know our government will not seek to provide supports by cutting corners.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824035#Comment_118824035

Its worth remembering, that for the longest time refugees could not work by design i.e. the system prohibited them from doing so and this only started to change after the govt where challenged in court and lost.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824084#Comment_118824084

Refugees always had the right to work. Asylum seekers didn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824432#Comment_118824432

Splitting hairs, you know what I meant

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824595#Comment_118824595

No, facts are important. There is a world of difference between an asylum seeker and a refugee.

Do explain

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822649#Comment_118822649

No, I don’t believe without evidence against them people should be dragged up in front on some individual with zero medical training who will be of the ability to decide if they need or should be in continuous receipt of a payment which they according to medical professionals, will need for a time longer until they are of the ability to return to work.

an individual who may have savings, are they supposed to spend all their savings on light, heat, food, rent and on the possibility that when the money runs out that social welfare people deem they qualify then for assistance ? :)

the government are simply trying to reassign money to / for this thousands upon thousands of new arrivals of which a certain percentage will remain here…

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822934#Comment_118822934

There are literally dozens of wars / conflicts in the world at present.

the reality is this country isn’t of the ability to help everyone. Nor should it be.. it’s tasked with helping its citizens and taxpayers but that is a reality, a reasonable reality lost on people. Or some people.

Patrick2010

As our government is predicting we’ll have to take in 200,000 Ukrainians can we assume they’re trying to soften us up so that if “only” 100,000 arrives then it’s no big deal?

Is there any way of finding out how many Ukrainians our fellow Europeans are taking? Eg Denmark, a similar size or the likes of much bigger countries like France and Spain? Are the likes of Spain and Portugal going to take over their hotels as the holiday season approaches?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822649#Comment_118822649

Nothing wrong with that as long as refugees are subject to the same checks as to their means , agree?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825302#Comment_118825302

Depending on the scope of the report and the day its drafted, your going to get varying numbers as the situation is very much in flux.

That being said, the links below are what I pulled up from a quick search.

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/ukraine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293403/cee-ukrainian-refugees-by-country/

For specific country numbers, you'll want to do a specific search for that info

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824982#Comment_118824982

No the government are not doing that. There has always been checks on social welfare recipients. Seems perfectly reasonable to reasonable people I would think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825311#Comment_118825311

If a refugee is in receipt of social welfare they are subject to the same checks as anyone else. Obviously

Subzero3

If a foreign national is/gets pregnant and has a child here in Ireland is that child guaranteed Irish citizenship? And if they depart Ireland will that child still be entitled to Children's allowence untill they are 18 from the state? Will be relevent to the current refugee influx if it does turn out to be 200k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825348#Comment_118825348

If a foreign national is/gets pregnant and has a child here in Ireland is that child guaranteed Irish citizenship? 

Children born in Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 are entitled to Irish citizenship if one of their parents are Irish or one of their parents are legally resident in the island of Ireland for 3 out of 4 years immediately prior to birth. Periods of legal residency as an asylum-seeker or on a student visa do not qualify for these purposes.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825302#Comment_118825302

Its partially based on GDP as well as population so our inflated figures are fecking us. Countries like Spain with lower gdps will end up with a lesser percentage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118821615#Comment_118821615

They will bring their Ukraine identity documents , will mainly be women and children and the destruction of their country is accreditation enough. And absolutely, the DSP should audit all payouts periodically, especially the means test. Giving access to your bank statements periodally for the money the state hands out is bargain of thr century.

And i expect if the Ukranians stay, they won,t be long enough in the social welfare system to be audited, they will be working and paying their way

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118822766#Comment_118822766

Which is a sign of less developed, and therefore less costly nations. To live properly, western families need to have both parents working (or make sacrifices in certain areas with tight budgeting) due to the rising costs to the family, whether it's the high costs of mortgages, or the costs of equipping children for schools. It's one of the major reasons why family sizes have dropped considerably between the 1950s and nowadays. The range of supports that the government/welfare can provide are finite.. at some point the economy is going to buckle under the strain, which will require Ukrainian women to work to support themselves, and then there's the men who come to join them after the conflict, who will need to work.

Reduced family sizes klaz has less to do with increasing costs of living, and more to do with the increased availability of reliable contraception, more women in the labour force, and higher expected standards of living with each subsequent generation. Free education has also been a significant driving factor in increasing living standards -

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-gpii/geographicalprofilesofincomeinireland2016/familyandhousehold/

There’s no fear of the economy buckling under any strain influenced by the numbers of Ukrainian women who choose not to work. There are already half a million women in Ireland who choose not to work, with many of them being housewives who are talking care of their families, relying on the household income provided by their spouse, generally speaking men who are in positions where their potential income over their lifetimes is many times that of what their wife could earn in employment -

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp4hf/cp4hf/fmls/

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-wamii/womenandmeninireland2016/socialcohesionandlifestyles/

You’ve acknowledged some of the negatives alright, but one of the greater negatives from my perspective at least, long before the current situation in Ukraine is that surrogacy is regulated there and women regularly suffer exploitation. Surrogacy is unregulated in Ireland, and I’d hate to imagine that anyone would use that to their advantage to exploit Ukrainian women and young girls who come here seeking refuge.

@mary 2021 your comments appear to be based more upon your own subjective perception than reality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824084#Comment_118824084

What's the relevance to the post you quoted, or even anything I've posted to the thread?

There are no such prohibitions in place, and even if there was, it wouldn't alter any of the points I made... which you.. responded to? TBH I'm more than a bit bemused as to why you would quote me and then post that claim above...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825348#Comment_118825348

🙄🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825711#Comment_118825711

They will likely still need social housing, income supplements, and other extra services made available.

Anyway, where are all these jobs going to appear to employ these 100/150k odd people (say a third are children)? Sure, some will be created by Ukrainians themselves, but that requires capital (that might be a bit scarce as we enter the upcoming recession). There are only so many available positions in call centres, and looking at the reports of Irelands hospitality/tourism sector, regardless of the lack of staff, there's a noticeable drop in incoming tourism/spending. That's going to become worse as the recession hits the western world, and people notice the effects of inflation when playing tourist in Ireland.

The trouble is that even if Ukrainians want to work... where are all the jobs? Especially jobs that are reliably going to exist after a few months, and can provide an income that can cover all the needed costs of living here..

I dunno. I think people are being a bit too optimistic about what's going to happen next. "We" are not prepared. Not even slightly..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825302#Comment_118825302

TBH I think we might see us being "prepared" for more than the 200k. Look at the estimated numbers of refugees leaving Ukraine.. and then consider how many countries there are in the EU.. There will be the expectation of spreading out the numbers of refugees to lessen the overall shock on economies, but Ireland would be expected to step up in much the same manner as Germany/France, due to past economic success.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we see numbers closer to 400-500k by the end of the year. The amounts will increase in increments but ultimately, there's likely going to be 15-20 million refugees that need somewhere to stay... and I can't see them going to south towards the M.East, take the longer trip to Asia... nah.. they'll come to Europe, because they know that they won't be refused.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826646#Comment_118826646

No reason, just a "by the by"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826712#Comment_118826712

k

Strumms

well good to know anyway that in times of need Irish people will for years to come be getting thrown well and truly under the bus for any help they need.

If the British make a success of Brexit, watch Irexit gain swift traction…

people will become sick very quickly of no housing, years long hospital waiting lists, rising taxes, capital projects like an expansion of the metro… (ohh yeah the one that we can’t even build) will be canned… Metro west already is…

directly as a result of five or six figure population increases per annum this country will grind to a halt… in terms off everything apart from our wellbeing, that will nosedive

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826711#Comment_118826711

I normally agree with you Klaz, but I feel like 400K-500K is a doomsday scenario. I can’t see the crisis evolving to that extent.

Most recent reports indicate that Russian advancement has stalled and Ukrainian forces have gone on the offensive in several areas. Apparently, Russian forces are down 10% already. Hopefully, this trend continues and some sort of ceasefire deal is brokered in the coming months. That should stem the outflow significantly.

One thing I will say is that is clearly some latent anxiety around the numbers the Irish government is projecting. I joined a work meeting late today. My colleagues were openly discussing concerns about the proposed volumes and the ability of particularly the health and education systems, to cope. These are all educated, well travelled people concerned with capacity of the country to cope with such an unprecedented influx.