What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825711#Comment_118825711

A social welfare payment to an Irish citizen isn’t a ‘state handout’ :). The benefit if you qualify is an entitlement… it’s worded as such by the government for decades… up to and including, now.

www.citizensinformation.ie will confirm. An ‘entitlement’….:)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826850#Comment_118826850

Semantics. Handout or entitlement one still should be audited. There is a big problem with people wrongly claiming their handouts. I see it all the time. People not looking for work banging on about their entitlements.. massive chip on your friends shoulder. I wonder are you the same person

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826820#Comment_118826820

I normally agree with you Klaz, but I feel like 400K-500K is a doomsday scenario. I can’t see the crisis evolving to that extent.

You know, I've been hearing a lot of the love that Ukrainians have for their country, and the desire by most to return. That's grand. I can appreciate the sentiment, although I've been to Ukraine and Eastern Europe, seen the standards of living, the corruption, the poor standards of services, etc. And, as such, I suspect that a rather large number of Ukrainians will jump at the chance to move to Ireland or the EU, and Ireland has such a great reputation (with Eastern Europeans) plus the reputation regarding our economy, this makes Ireland a choice destination. Germany and France would be high on the list, but the truth is that these countries are well saturated from past refugee groups, and standard migration.

Perhaps I'm being too cynical, but when the EU/Ireland waives all visa requirements and offers generous supports for refugees of a neighbouring nation, I can see a rather large chunk of them taking the opportunity.

This isn't about the conflict itself. That could be finished in a month or two. However, there won't be any expectation for refugees to return to Ukraine immediately, and there will be further peoples leaving Ukraine after the conflict has finished, due to the destroyed infrastructure, medical/health issues with a heavily damaged country, etc. They'll continue to leave Ukraine, and where will they go? Ukraine has a population around 42 million people... how many of them would leap at the chance to live in a first world nation, get the initial investment needed to live here, etc?

Nope. I genuinely do expect to see in the region of 500k within this year arriving in Ireland. Not that they'll stay.. but I wouldn't be surprised to see such numbers attempt entry. Perhaps our government will see sense and seek to stop them, but I doubt it.

14 Ukrainian kids starting school in Lisdoonvarna, they expect the final number to be around 27 which will likely see the need for 1 additional teacher

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/0323/1287934-clare-ukrainian-refugees/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827880#Comment_118827880

They'll hire Ukrainian teachers to compensate. It was on the 6 o'clock news yesterday, having already hired some Ukrainian teachers.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827289#Comment_118827289

Surely, an easier way to do this would this would be to get an independent medical professional go over the person's file, then assess the person. Fine GP's €10k a pop for false disability claims they have signed off on and watch the amount claiming it plummet.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827880#Comment_118827880

You do know that there are automated aggregators that scrape online media? It would save you having to trawl manually..

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827289#Comment_118827289

nothing semantical, in the slightest… :)

im sure their IS a problem but a doctors correspondence should suffice.

a person gets dragged in front of a non medically qualified person who is tasked with deciding if they should still receive this payment is a nonsense…no non medically qualified individual should be evaluating if an individual is fit or healthy enough to work. im not the same person. But it’s no accident that with the influx of Ukrainian citizens and the cost, financially and logistically this represents to the state that they are trying to cut the assistance given to taxpayers…

no chips, unless with plenty of salt and vinegar. Interesting you feel it’s appropriate that a person with an opinion has a chip…

im simply of the view that with that decision being taken, the people of this country and their welfare and wellbeing will continue to be abused, trampled on for many years.

its a heavy duty enough job for this country and us, it’s citizens recovering from covid… that we over a few weeks will be accepting a couple of hundred thousand people and providing housing, healthcare, benefits…for them all.

the financial challenges, logistical challenges, social challenges…

meanwhile Irish taxpayers months and years on hospital waiting lists, housing waiting lists, but fast tracked without waiting lists to meet with social welfare workers to have to justify their need to still be in receipt of their entitlements :) some country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827845#Comment_118827845

The Ukraine is not some backward third world country. Millions of people are happy to live their and call it home, including Irish people and other nationalities. This superiority complex you have about Ireland is not warranted.

Some people might stay, they might grow to love the country, many more will return home to the country they already love.

Strumms

The Ukraine is a very poor country. The poorest country in Europe by GDP capita. It is also awash with corruption. Not just at political levels.

It’s natural to understand that a huge amount of those arriving, will stay.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828250#Comment_118828250

All the former soviet nations tend to have institutionalised corruption as part of their culture. Dunno if that was the case before the Soviets came along, but it's there nonetheless. In any case, they'd be similar to Spain/Italy in terms of corruption being part of daily living and an accepted part of their society. And it's unlikely that expectation/behaviour towards corruption (or greasing the wheels) will remain behind in Ukraine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828250#Comment_118828250

Some arriving will stay. Some will not. Many countries are poorer then Ireland, doesn't mean that everyone wants to come live in our super utopia we have here 🙄

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828287#Comment_118828287

The bad news for us… hundreds of thousands do.. and will.

and those of us paying for critical services will be kicked further down the list to be able to avail of them. Medical cards will be going bye bye and placed in the hands of our new found arrivals.

sports clubs looking for government, sorry taxpayers grants to enable health, sport, social activity in our communities will be told to swing for it. That’s happened already to one I know…

not a utopia… it’s a screwtopia… and we are getting absolutely screwed from every angle…

Potatoeman

So just yesterday inflation was eventually mentioned in the news. Interest rates hikes are on the way and that means more money spent serving debt and less overall available money. Inflation will reduce consumer spending and reduce tax income. It’s a descending cycle and we are just at the start. There is a reason reasonable countries cap immigration. It’s not free and we are still paying off the bank bailout. Ireland has the third highest national debt per capita after the US and Japan but we are dependent on multinationals that can move at any time. This is a ticking time-bomb and the government just poured petrol all over it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828338#Comment_118828338

and yet you are far from badly off? Isn't that what you claim? What are the issues that affect you directly?

You have no idea how many will stay. Many refugees go home as soon as possible

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828338#Comment_118828338

The bad news for us… hundreds of thousands do.. and will.

Exactly. Under normal conditions, being able to move to Ireland would be appealing.. considering the differences between this country and Ukraine. For all our gripes, Ireland has a far better standard of living than living in Eastern Europe. It's worth looking at the mortality rates between the countries, with Ireland being less than half that of Ukraine. I think many people are ignoring just how much of a harsher life Ukrainians live even in normal circumstances.

The other aspect though is what will they be returning to? Their apartment block destroyed by shelling, the company they worked for is bust, the infrastructure of their cities/towns demolished, a broken economy which is worse than it was before. Yes, the EU will help, but for many people returning to Ukraine will not just be difficult for the state of the country, but expensive too for restarting their lives. Their assets mostly wiped out by the conflict. Whereas in Ireland, they have social housing, access to welfare, a high standard of living etc.

After seeing and living in Ireland for a while, I suspect many Ukrainians will prefer to stay than face the problems returning would entail. It's different for those who remained in Poland or nations bordering Ukraine, not just for the lesser economies those nations have, but also the mentality of the peoples themselves, and how that translates into helping in the long term.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828802#Comment_118828802

What do you mean they are not diverse enough? These are refugees fleeing from a war zone, I wouldn't have thought anyone needed to post in their defence, but maybe you haven't read the last few pages?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829157#Comment_118829157

This situation is perfect for vague claims and deflections away from the problems that might arise from what's happening.

Ahh klaz, surely you can’t fail to see the irony in your own making vague claims about problems that MIGHT arise, in a country where we are known internationally for our cute hoorism behaviours and attitudes of accepting corruption at all levels in Irish society!

There’s just no logic whatsoever to arguing that Ireland is an attractive prospect to anyone hoping to take advantage of our generous welfare system, while at the same time arguing that they would stay in spite of their presence increasing an already high cost of living… which would mean the benefits of generous welfare they’re receiving are offset by the high cost of living!

It’s true klaz, even Irish criminal gangs are feeling the pinch, poor unfortunates 😂

I don’t mean to, but all anyone can do is laugh at the sheer nonsense of such a transparent argument from people speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828100#Comment_118828100

The docs assessment is only part of it. Do you want the doc doing the means test too. And circumstances do change medically too. Again, your friend is getting a payment, go in and do the interview and supply the requested documents to keep the payment going.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827919#Comment_118827919

Actually a great suggestion. No gp will do the reports then. What is a gp to do. Patient reports 10 out of 10 pain.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828785#Comment_118828785

Exactly…

better standard of life and unwavering generosity of state support here..

maybe nothing to go back to there, or best case the risk of Putin going loco again.

also something worth noting…

unemployment rates pre pandemic were around double in the Ukraine compared to here.

so when they get told..

you’ll be 6000 kilometres away from Russia

free healthcare

free weekly cash benefit

A fully accessible jobs market, eventually the ability to work and undercut Irish prospective employees, employers will be welcoming them with open arms..kingpins of the jobs market… already NOW Irish employers especially in the services sectors will be planning the driving down of wages for when the influx happens….

people braking their arse here in college to get on the jobs ladder ? Why ?

country is actually donald ducked.

Cordell

people braking their arse here in college to get on the jobs ladder ? Why ?

If people that broke their arse in college will be undercut by ukranian refugees then probably they have chosen the wrong college. Or arse :|

But the low end jobs and even some trades may/will definitely feel the pressure.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829992#Comment_118829992

Why ? do some research,…Ukraine has a seriously high level of education and educated youth.

So employers here will be getting the talent but needing to pay a whole lot less for availing of it.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829727#Comment_118829727

Firstly someone with 10/10 pain shouldn't be anywhere near a GP. Refer them to a pain specialist. Most ailments have verifiable symptoms. In my line of work I've seen GPs put people on disability just from pester power. It's an absolute joke. I've worked in a secondary service and sent emergency appointments to patients and rang to confirm same, on multiple occasions, only to be told that the "emergency" appointment wasn't needed any longer as their GP had already put them on disability.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829992#Comment_118829992

Well... they do have some advantages as many Ukrainians speak more than a few languages, as there's greater emphasis on language acquisition in Eastern Europe. College/University education only goes so far, and is only really that important for technical or once you reach management levels. Entry/Mid level employment can often be more interested in experience and practical skills rather than uni qualifications. This is particularly true in Ireland, due to the heavy emphasis on foreign multinationals where having a few foreign languages could be very useful.

Still, I don't think Uni students have much really to worry about from Ukrainians. The real issue will be the coming recession, inflation and the effects on the Irish economy, and subsequent job market. I'd imagine most will end up going abroad anyway, because it'll be so hard to get accommodation in Dublin.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830023#Comment_118830023

I wasn't questioning their education levels. But if your college degree is in so little demand that it can mean you losing your job or a significant pay cut, then that degree was a bad idea to begin with.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830056#Comment_118830056

so that is the level of debate now as regards this topic.. hmm ok.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830624#Comment_118830624

I'm beginning to think you wouldn't be happy regardless of how many came here, be that 100 or 100,000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828213#Comment_118828213

but there will be nothing left of "the country they already love". It is being obliterated as we speak ! No buildings, no schools or shops, no business or jobs, no drainage, no water or electricity, no hospitals, no doctor's surgery........millions have left or died. How many decades will it take to return Ukraine to a country that can support a large population (10 years would be optimistic) I wouldn't be too sure about many returning to the country they love (although I understand the sentiment)

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830837#Comment_118830837

I’d be very happy if a proportionate number arrived, that would not endanger or compromise the states ability to either short or long term give every necessary assistance to Ukrainian people and help to Irish taxpayers and that as a result taxes too… after what we’ve all had to endure wouldn’t be raised…

im of the realisation you’d probably not want to stop at any number at all, just open up our borders, finances and compromise our own wellbeing and goals.. :). All too clear.