What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Mr. Karate

gmisk wrote: »

Are Muslims really demanding that in Ireland....nope.

Wait and see until there is more. They always play the peace loving Muslim and then when the numbers on their side they start showing their true colors.

It went like this in Germany, and in Sweden, and in France and in Britain and in every other Country they ended up taking over.

Ireland will be no different. You're naive or delusional to think otherwise.

jmreire

Gentlemanne wrote: »

I don't, but neither does the idea of Muslim people that is living inside your head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmreire View Post
Mention pork, even by accident in the company of Muslims,and they will recoil with horror.

This is so delusional that it makes me wonder have ye actually met Muslim people or do you just take dubious nonsense that you read on the internet as fact.

Gentlemanne:-
No, not "dubious nonsense that I heard on the net",,,,Its first hand experience gained from living ( yes living ) amongst Muslims in their very own Islamic Country's... quite a few of them in fact. ( Countries I mean )
Any particular Islamic Country you want to discuss? Preferably one that you have lived in,, we can compare notes, if you like, but not from any dubious nonsense that you may have just heard about on the net. I'll start the ball rolling :- Afghanistan. Have you ever been there??? But its not confinded to Afghanistan....feel free to mention other Islamic Country's. And I can quote personal experience when you mention Pork or pig related topic's in conversation with Muslims in an Islamic Country,,,,,its a little bit different in non-Islamic country's, where for many pork is a staple in the diet, even if sitting beside Muslims in a restaurant.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Ditto. I've had Muslim friends for dinner in a group, who simply ate something different than the rest of us who had a pork dish. The intolerance is only really there when they're a majority population in an area and can enforce their habits on others. (which, to be fair, is the same as most other cultures)

Klaz and Wibbs, sure same as me, and generally when they are sitting at my table, or in a restaurant in the EU, no problem. But try and find pork products in a restaurant in an Islamic Country...... Re Recoil and Horror incident. Happened me in Afghanistan, and not in the Countryside either ( which is much more conservative) but in Kabul. Was at a co-ordination meeting, and in a brief moment of forgetfulness, I happened to let slip the dreaded word "PIG". Conversation around the table stopped,,I got tap on the ankle from my Boss, and we both went into damage limitation mode.....we managed to pass it off satisfactorily...by blaming the American behaviour on the fact that they eat lots of pork. Smiles of agreement all round, back to normal again. I never made the same mistake again...ever. On their home ground, they take it serious, very serious.
The story of Mohammed getting sick after eating pork, was told to me by Muslim colleagues, as were the reasons for banning alcohol ( Mohammed was passing through a village where there was much merriment taking place due to a Wedding. A few days later, he passed the same village, but it was a completely different scene..drunken fighting had broken out, people were injured and killed. Mohammed banned all alcohol because of that.
The story of the dogs was that again, Mohammed was visiting a house, and one of the dogs attacked him. He claimed that they were controlled by the devil, and as such had no place in Islam.
Now about all of the above , it's what I have learned from my Muslim colleagues and friends, and you can agree or disagree, according to your own experience's or belief's. But these are my personal lived experiences.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

It's their other customs that are of more concern... their attitude towards women, homosexuality, religious belief, etc. Their attitude to alcohol, and pork is really low a concern, if it is one at all.

Of course it is Wibbs,, unless you like to eat a bit of pork......:D:D:D

Hunky Monster

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Wrong. I live in a suburb that has been completely taken over by them to the point where I can’t walk my dog in my usual park due to the aggression/freaking out.

All in my head though.

I hope you're living abroad :pac:

I didn't think it had reached that point in Ireland - well not yet anyway.

gmisk

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I've been going to this place for close to 20 years before any of these people landed here. Why should I change. They're in MY country, THEY need to adapt.

And that's the problem.

Your dog should be on a leash and not bothering people.... regardless of where they are from.
That is the law in YOUR country as you put it...

A lot of people are wary of dogs that lurch or start barking viciously at oncoming pedestrians. Once bitten and all that...

Are these Muslims similarly inclined towards showing their disdain towards dogs and their owners when the dog is minding it's own business.. Well that's definitely another incompatibility problem there then if so.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Klaz and Wibbs, sure same as me, and generally when they are sitting at my table, or in a restaurant in the EU, no problem. But try and find pork products in a restaurant in an Islamic Country...... Re Recoil and Horror incident. Happened me in Afghanistan, and not in the Countryside either ( which is much more conservative) but in Kabul. Was at a co-ordination meeting, and in a brief moment of forgetfulness, I happened to let slip the dreaded word "PIG". Conversation around the table stopped,,I got tap on the ankle from my Boss, and we both went into damage limitation mode.....we managed to pass it off satisfactorily...by blaming the American behaviour on the fact that they eat lots of pork. Smiles of agreement all round, back to normal again. I never made the same mistake again...ever. On their home ground, they take it serious, very serious.

Sure, it makes sense that they wouldn't like pork in a predominately Islamic nation. It's their culture, after all. Although, I have had pork in both Indonesia, and Malaysia, both of whom are Islamic nations, although they tend to be more pragmatic since they have so much investment from China, and Chinese people love their pork. I daresay Irish people would react in a similar fashion when presented all manner of bizarre dishes in Asia.. I remember my own reaction to a bowl with 50 odd chicken feet. Ugh.

In any case, my objection was the idea that Muslims have a particular dislike of dogs, which doesn't match my experiences with Muslims in a variety of countries, including Islamic nations.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, it makes sense that they wouldn't like pork in a predominately Islamic nation. It's their culture, after all. Although, I have had pork in both Indonesia, and Malaysia, both of whom are Islamic nations, although they tend to be more pragmatic since they have so much investment from China, and Chinese people love their pork. I daresay Irish people would react in a similar fashion when presented all manner of bizarre dishes in Asia.. I remember my own reaction to a bowl with 50 odd chicken feet. Ugh.

In any case, my objection was the idea that Muslims have a particular dislike of dogs, which doesn't match my experiences with Muslims in a variety of countries, including Islamic nations.

You can get shall we say from the centre outwards....the centre being the most hardline version of Islam..the Wahhabi's to say Bosnia,, the more "relaxed" version and there will be differences in interpretation along the way. In Afghanistan the only dogs I saw were used by the Kuchi's, but within Familys as pets, none. Not once in several years in Syria, did I see one dog as a family pet. Likewise, in Bosnia and Kosovo, they have a shepherding dog, the Sarplaninac, and they are very popular, not only as working dogs but as pets too. So some Muslims will keep dogs, for one reason or another, but the nearer the centre of Islam, less so, if at all, because Mohammed forbade it, same as alcohol, yet in Bosnia, they will give any drinking Irish man a run for his money... So you have the variations in Islam, which can be a bit confusing at times. I have yet to visit either Indonesia or Malaysia, so have no practical experience about Islamic culture there, but I'll take your word for it.And sitting down to eat the local cuisine can be a bit of a trial,,,,especially if its from the "POT", the more or less permanent stew which is kept cooking away, topped up with what ever was left over after the last meal, supplemented by whatever else happens to be available.. when you see the animals teeth grinning up at you, you just have to wonder what else is in there.:eek:

Gentlemanne

It is nearly impossible to read your posts jmreire

Incoherent and nonsensical. Do you remember the junior cert? Paragraphs they insisted on!

jmreire

Gentlemanne wrote: »

It is nearly impossible to read your posts jmreire

Incoherent and nonsensical. Do you remember the junior cert? Paragraphs they insisted on!

That's the best you can do??? Fault my grammar?? Seems that you are the only one though..no one else has that problem.
So just to make it simple for you..have you ever worked and lived in an Islamic Country? Yes or no? Can you understand that much?

Geuze

gmisk wrote: »

Are Muslims really demanding that in Ireland....nope.

Let us check what Ali Selim demanded:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810


A spokesman for the Muslim community in Ireland has called for radical change in the educational system to accommodate children with Islamic beliefs.

Dr Ali Selim........... he relates difficulties these young people face when it comes to admission to schools, as well as their problems with PE classes, relationship and sexuality education, music and drama classes, and practice of their faith during school hours.


He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.


About the RSE programme in schools Dr Selim says there are “crucial differences” with Islam. It forbids pre- and extramarital sexual relations, whereas RSE perceives sexual relations outside wedlock as part of normal practices.”

He suggests there is “a clash of values” also between Islam and “traditional ways of teaching PE”. In some schools, “under the guise of health and safety, Muslim girls are obliged to take off their headscarves for PE classes, which is not acceptable to them”.

Also, Muslim girls would resist changing clothes in a communal area.

When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

Cordell

Gentlemanne wrote: »

I don't own a dog nor walk any, am I not compatible with Ireland in any way?

You don't like dogs because you just don't like dogs, that's fine.
When you don't like dogs because it says so in the book that they are unclean, that's a problem. And that book has a lot to say about a lot of things.

Cordell

Geuze wrote: »

When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

Modern drums can and must be tuned, and if they aren't they will sound like crap. So I guess the drum manufactures need to sell halal drums, pretuned from factory.

JasonStatham

Geuze wrote: »

Let us check what Ali Selim demanded:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/call-for-state-schools-to-accommodate-islamic-beliefs-1.1915810


A spokesman for the Muslim community in Ireland has called for radical change in the educational system to accommodate children with Islamic beliefs.

Dr Ali Selim........... he relates difficulties these young people face when it comes to admission to schools, as well as their problems with PE classes, relationship and sexuality education, music and drama classes, and practice of their faith during school hours.


He suggests they be days off for Muslim children. During Ramadan, the month of fasting, Muslims give to charity and schools could co-operate by “raising funds for the poor and the needy”. But, he points out, “any form of raffle is strictly forbidden in Islam”.


About the RSE programme in schools Dr Selim says there are “crucial differences” with Islam. It forbids pre- and extramarital sexual relations, whereas RSE perceives sexual relations outside wedlock as part of normal practices.”

He suggests there is “a clash of values” also between Islam and “traditional ways of teaching PE”. In some schools, “under the guise of health and safety, Muslim girls are obliged to take off their headscarves for PE classes, which is not acceptable to them”.

Also, Muslim girls would resist changing clothes in a communal area.

When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”.

A troublemaker. Should be deported.

Yyhhuuu

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

As regards Muslims I am informed that due to cultural or religious differences they will not integrate in Ireland. I'm not sure if this Is true or false?

Well... what is integration, and how is it achieved?

Thirty years ago (+), it was easier to say how people would have integrated into Irish society, but many of the cornerstones of community behavior have been demolished. Typically integration happens through work, but when migrants are only eligible for lower end jobs, or surrounded by other migrants within their workspaces, how does integration into the local culture occur?

This is my problem with multiculturalism. There's no thought put into how to integrate people into the native society.

weldoninhio

gmisk wrote: »

Your dog should be on a leash and not bothering people.... regardless of where they are from.
That is the law in YOUR country as you put it...

Dogs need to be under “effective control”. No need for a lead legally. That is the law.

JasonStatham

JasonStatham wrote: »

A troublemaker. Should be deported.

Nope. He should be challenged as to what he expects from living in a nation with a culture that is naturally different than his own. If he (and those who agree with him), can't accept the differences, then perhaps he should be living in an Islamic nation. It's not as if there aren't plenty to choose from.

Expecting Ireland to conform to his expectations shouldn't be considered reasonable..... Because it's not reasonable.

gmisk

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dogs need to be under “effective control”. No need for a lead legally. That is the law.

If a dog is going up to random people it is not under control that was my point, dogs shouldn't be bothering people who don't like them.
I have a dog btw....only off leash if no one around. If he goes to approach someone he will stop on command.

weldoninhio

gmisk wrote: »

If a dog is going up to random people it is not under control that was my point, dogs shouldn't be bothering people who don't like them.
I have a dog btw....only off leash if no one around. If he goes to approach someone he will stop on command.

Here’s what he said. Could you point out the part where he says his dog is going up to random people?? Or are you making things up to suit your argument?


“Wrong. I live in a suburb that has been completely taken over by them to the point where I can’t walk my dog in my usual park due to the aggression/freaking out.“

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

weldoninhio wrote: »

Here’s what he said. Could you point out the part where he says his dog is going up to random people?? Or are you making things up to suit your argument?


“Wrong. I live in a suburb that has been completely taken over by them to the point where I can’t walk my dog in my usual park due to the aggression/freaking out.“

For clarity he’s a small dog, he’s on a lead until I can get to a wide open space in the park, then he’s off lead to play fetch until he’s tired. He then walks beside me back to the car still off lead. The lead is only if there are other dogs about then he goes back on it. Him being a dog and all wants to give his ball to other people so will approach them and drop the ball and sit, most people love this and will play with him and I’ll chat to the people.

Not Muslims though. I’m met with reactions you’d expect from a 5 year old having a tantrum.

Vulcan01

In the end it will be the Western People forced to integrate and change to accommodate the Muslim views and their way of life as evident by the good Dr. spouting about how we must change conform with their ways of living.

Plenty of Islamic countries that live the way he wants his gang to roll, If it is so bad here then head off.

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. He should be challenged as to what he expects from living in a nation with a culture that is naturally different than his own. If he (and those who agree with him), can't accept the differences, then perhaps he should be living in an Islamic nation. It's not as if there aren't plenty to choose from.

Expecting Ireland to conform to his expectations shouldn't be considered reasonable..... Because it's not reasonable.

Agreed 100% Klaz, for sure. if the positions were reversed,you would not get too much hop in his Country if you made the same request...but then in this part of the world, we have one bad weakness,,,Democracy, where everyone has "right's", including those who would change our way of life in a second if they could.And they well know how to exploit it.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. He should be challenged as to what he expects from living in a nation with a culture that is naturally different than his own. If he (and those who agree with him), can't accept the differences, then perhaps he should be living in an Islamic nation. It's not as if there aren't plenty to choose from.

Expecting Ireland to conform to his expectations shouldn't be considered reasonable..... Because it's not reasonable.

Challenge these people and you’re branded a racist and a bigot.

Pixel Eater

'When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”. Wait am I reading that right, some Muslims have an issue with guitars?! So playing the trumpet offends Allah somehow?

Eric Cartman

Pixel Eater wrote: »

'When it came to music some Muslims would see it as prohibited but “if music is performed using non-tuneable percussion instruments such as drums, most Muslims will have no problem”. Wait am I reading that right, some Muslims have an issue with guitars?! So playing the trumpet offends Allah somehow?

stringed instruments are haram.

Cordell

There's a very long list.

WrenBoy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

stringed instruments are haram.

biko

Mixing religions/cultures will not work in the long run no matter how good it makes you feel today.

We've already seen ethnic civil wars.
It happened in Yugoslavia
It happened in Rwanda
It happened in Lebanon

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Challenge these people and you’re branded a racist and a bigot.

Only because those who tend to challenge them express "extreme" views. There's little effort by those involved to build logical/rational arguments. Instead, these days everything revolves around emotional outbursts. This thread is full of it, coming from all angles of the discussion.

You can see it often. Arguments are presented as an all or nothing scenario with little practical consideration about how to bring changes about.

As I've said previously, I'm not against multiculturalism.. when there is a dominant native culture, and there is definite planning (and constant research) in how to bring it about with the least amount of friction, and benefit for all concerned (with particular attention for the native population).