What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Clarence Boddiker

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, they estimate what is going to happen, but there is no action planned to make it happen. There is no conspiracy to bring people in. The plan is how to deal with an existing situation, not to create it. I don't think I'll be able to, ahem, mansplain it better than that

Of course there's no conspiracy, its all out in the open..public knowledge.
A stated plan by the Govt.

A conspiracy generally has little evidence to back up the claim by the conspiracy theorist.
While the Ireland 2040 plan is Govt policy.

ExMachina1000

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The plan states that the population will grow by 1 million, and that at least half of that will come from from outside Ireland.

Simon Coveny
"We estimate over the next 20 years that the population of Ireland will certainly grow by an extra million people. Linked to that estimate is that half of that number won't have been born in Ireland. I think that will be a really good thing for Irish society but we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction."

Simon Coveney doesn't have the legal or moral authority to permanently change the demographics on the island of Ireland. It is not his decision to make.
He will be disappeared

Mr. Karate

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I was talking to a German girl the other day at the gym, told me she's terrified to go out at night on her own back in Germany , it's a disaster and why we can't see that here I will never know

The pro-mass migration crowd are as delusional and arrogant as the Modern day Socialists. "We'll be the ones to get it right."

TomTomTim

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Simon Coveney doesn't have the legal or moral authority to permanently change the demographics on the island of Ireland. It is not his decision to make.
He will be disappeared

I don't think any country has ever been given a vote on the topic, which is absurd given that it one of the most radical polices in relation to change within whatever nation it is forced upon. It could be argued that it's a betrayal of democratic values.

Arthur Daley

TomTomTim wrote: »

I don't think any country has every been given a vote on the topic, which is absurd given that it one of the most radical polices in relation to change within whatever nation it is forced upon. It could be argued that it's a betrayal of democratic values.

You think.

They never campaign on this come election time. Because every one of them know the kicking they'd get. If thats not subversion of democracy I don't know what is.

And yeah, we have got a problem with it.:mad:

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

I don't think any country has every been given a vote on the topic, which is absurd given that it one of the most radical polices in relation to change within whatever nation it is forced upon. It could be argued that it's a betrayal of democratic values.

Well when the Irish electorate were given a choice to retain or remove the automatic birthright to an Irish passport they overwhelmingly voted to remove it. The same Irish people that according to the diversity flag wavers are so smart and wise to such things and reject any issues with migration. Irish government departments today reject as bogus nearly 100% of the "asylum" applicants from nations that make up a large proportion of those that came into this country in the Celtic Tiger(oddly vanishingly few came in the doldrums of the 70's and 80's. Funny that). However we're supposed to ignore that with those already here.

The biggest reason the political classes, the NGO's and the money behind them generally won't put this kinda thing to the electorate is that they know damned well the result would not be what they wanted or claim is the will of the people.

nj27

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Its because of intense conditioning, through the Media, Education, Politics, Celebrities etc

The conditioning is so strong that nothing will change their outlook. Nothing can seem to break the conditioning.
The Knowledge and facts about the likes of Grooming gangs, Crime, Rapes, terrorism you name it are irrelevant. Evidence of social problems, far from causing them to take stock and reappraise their position actually cause them to double down and ends up reinforcing their beliefs.

Absolutely, allied to the fact that you are broadly congratulated for holding liberal views on immigration, the more liberal the better. Also you don’t really have to say anything critical of others to espouse a pro-immigration point of view. You can hurl invective upon your opponent, they’ve already been written off as racists and worthy targets of any level of derision, but you don’t have to tackle any nasty issues like grooming gangs, fgm, or crime stats. It’s almost a non starter to present firm opposition to immigration, forget about expressing regard for maintaining a majority native population.

I see sheep

Jesus what an echo chamber this is.
99% posts are racist conspiracy nonsense, when there's a post opposing this we get posts saying '''you're shutting down debate''.
You want debate? But only if you agree with it?
Ha ha

There's a great hurling match going on so I'll go back to that.
I'm sure the geniuses on here will be watching out for any dark skinned people and if they spot any will determine there's a Soros conspiracy to infiltrate Kilkenny hurling ðŸ˜

enricoh

Racist, echo chamber, conspiracy, Soros - it's a full house! congratulations sheep you got them all in!
Thanks a mill for taking the time out of your hectic schedule to post. Do call again, ta in advance.

jmayo

I see sheep wrote: »

Jesus what an echo chamber this is.
99% posts are racist conspiracy nonsense, when there's a post opposing this we get posts saying '''you're shutting down debate''.
You want debate? But only if you agree with it?
Ha ha

There's a great hurling match going on so I'll go back to that.
I'm sure the geniuses on here will be watching out for any dark skinned people and if they spot any will determine there's a Soros conspiracy to infiltrate Kilkenny hurling ðŸ˜

Alright then debate, not label everyone a racist conspiracy loon.

Why don't you argue with points about all the benefits that mass migration from parts of Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East has brought to the host nations of Europe?

Come up with counter points to the increasing crime rates, the increasing sexual violence towards women and children often by very organised immigrant groups, the increasing number of ghettos in major European cities, the increased threat of terrorism from migrants and indeed the children of migrants.

I will start up off with one benefit that your side of the argument makes.
There is greater variety of food now available.

jmayo

enricoh wrote: »

Racist, echo chamber, conspiracy, Soros - it's a full house! congratulations sheep you got them all in!
Thanks a mill for taking the time out of your hectic schedule to post. Do call again, ta in advance.

Ah now be fair he forgot to mention Irish emigration, the famine, PIRA, the catholic church.

I see sheep

jmayo wrote: »

Come up with counter points to the increasing crime rates, the increasing sexual violence towards women and children often by very organised immigrant groups, the increasing number of ghettos in major European cities, the increased threat of terrorism from migrants and indeed the children of migrants.

Source please? ta

nj27

I see sheep wrote: »

Jesus what an echo chamber this is.
99% posts are racist conspiracy nonsense, when there's a post opposing this we get posts saying '''you're shutting down debate''.
You want debate? But only if you agree with it?
Ha ha

There's a great hurling match going on so I'll go back to that.
I'm sure the geniuses on here will be watching out for any dark skinned people and if they spot any will determine there's a Soros conspiracy to infiltrate Kilkenny hurling ðŸ˜

This post gives a vibe of a fired up poster. I'm genuinely not trying any shady counter argument stuff, but I would love to know what the source of the fire in your post is? What makes you feel like the issues discussed here are worthy of your ire? I am not an ideologue of any kind and I never have been, so if there is a point which opposes my point of view which warrants such fervour I anxious to hear it.

I see sheep

jmayo wrote: »

Why don't you argue with points about all the benefits that mass migration from parts of Africa, Central Asia and the Middle East has brought to the host nations of Europe?

Hate to break this to you but we all come from Africa.

I'd say the benefit of that mass migration is our existence on the planet.

In modern terms (I believe) mass migration is needed because capitalism requires an increasing number of consumers (3% gdp increase i think) to sustain itself.

If you disagree with mass migration you disagree with capitalism and are happy for it's end I assume? (trying to debate here )

Swamp_Cat

biko wrote: »

On the contrary, I think Irish culture is very strong and thriving.
It is well known and liked worldwide.
It is distinct from English culture.
As you say, we have Irish sports.
Possibly this culture is more pronounced in the west rather than the pale, but it's not going away soon as in fact many immigrants embrace this culture instead of rejecting it.

I'd have to agree. As an American I know anyone from here who gets, or chooses to spend time in rural Ireland, especially if they are staying with locals as opposed to some cookie-cutter "tour" or what-not are often surprised how foriegn it is compared with their expectations.
I do agree with the posters who feel the GAA is the heart of Irish culture at the moment. different depending upon where you are & I've only really spent extended periods in rural Ireland so I can't speak to the cities. Just my 00.02. If I was Irish as opposed to an Irish American I would fight tooth and nail to not become Americanized! My country is beautiful in places & quite varied from region to region but it's not something to emulate sadly. Take care all & stay safe.

Sand

nj27 wrote: »

This post gives a vibe of a fired up poster. I'm genuinely not trying any shady counter argument stuff, but I would love to know what the source of the fire in your post is? What makes you feel like the issues discussed here are worthy of your ire? I am not an ideologue of any kind and I never have been, so if there is a point which opposes my point of view which warrants such fervour I anxious to hear it.

Because it is an Irish forum, we assume we are speaking to other Irish people. Its not necessarily always the case. Posters can take a rejection of mass immigration as an attack upon themselves, hence the bitterness. Apart from that, people consider their views and their sense of self to be one and the same. You dont get to attack their views without they themselves feeling they are being slighted and dismissed.

jmayo

I see sheep wrote: »

Source please? ta

Ohh how edgy.

Why not look up the wiki listing of terrorist attacks in Europe in the last 20 years?
I think the death toll is now in the thousands.

Why not look up grooming gangs in Rotherham, Newcastle, Rochdale, Oxford, Huddersfield.

Hell the UK has had thousands of victims at this stage.

Ah but we know you are just shyte stirring and on a windup.

It probably gives you a little thrill to "wind up the big bad racists".

Ok just spotted latest post where you are actually debating.

I see sheep wrote: »

Hate to break this to you but we all come from Africa.

I'd say the benefit of that mass migration is our existence on the planet.

In modern terms (I believe) mass migration is needed because capitalism requires an increasing number of consumers (3% gdp increase i think) to sustain itself.

If you disagree with mass migration you disagree with capitalism and are happy for it's end I assume? (trying to debate here )

Nope. Capitalism requires growth and input.

Bringing someone to a new country when they have little education, are not contributing, but a drain on that country is not helping capitalism.
Giving free money to someone to be consumer is doomed to failure.
There are no longer the manual labour requirements in the West so what jobs do you offer these people or is the old joke about them being doctors and engineers ?

It is the fallacy often pedaled that the migrants crossing the Med are going to be paying our pensions.

Would that be after we have paid for their housing, their healthcare, their education and their consumer spending for the next 40 years ?

And even worse they appear damn fooking ungrateful to their hosts, often quickly resort to crime and fail to integrate wanting to create their only little bit of home in their new country.
Now that wouldn't be too bad if home was not something that is still in the middle ages.

Sand

I see sheep wrote: »

If you disagree with mass migration you disagree with capitalism and are happy for it's end I assume? (trying to debate here )

If the choice is between capitalism and Irish people having their own homeland, I choose my people. Everytime.

I see sheep

nj27 wrote: »

This post gives a vibe of a fired up poster. I'm genuinely not trying any shady counter argument stuff, but I would love to know what the source of the fire in your post is? What makes you feel like the issues discussed here are worthy of your ire? I am not an ideologue of any kind and I never have been, so if there is a point which opposes my point of view which warrants such fervour I anxious to hear it.

I do get a wee bit fired up about this yeah.

I'm restating this but Irish people faced discrimination and racism for a long long time in the UK, Australia & US and a lot of the anti immigration rhetoric in this thread is exactly what was said about Irish people.

I have heard it the UK and Oz straight from the horses mouth (Australians still making jokes about Irish people being ignorant, lol a lot of Aussies are sadly very ignorant and backward people)

The stuff about governments planning for a much bigger population, I don't follow the logic here tbh, surely they're saying if the population is X we'll do Y etc.

I despise FG & FF so I am not defending anything they do but honestly I don't get it

I see sheep

Sand wrote: »

If the choice is between capitalism and Irish people having their own homeland, I choose my people. Everytime.

Their own homeland? Don't follow you mate sorry. Bible thing?

smurgen

Have to say I like multi-culturalism. I work in a diverse office with folk from all over and we've lots of open conversation about all sorts. Different customs and religions. Lots of slagging etc and it adds to the atmosphere of the place. I haven't seen the alleged bad sides that others have seen such as social welfare tourism etc so I can't comment there. I think as a country it would be sensible for us to have a point based system to ensure we're getting people that can pay their own way.

Sand

I see sheep wrote: »

Their own homeland? Don't follow you mate sorry. Bible thing?

You're American aren't you? Either that or you're so wholly absorbed into their cultural battles that you cant help using the same tropes here.

ExMachina1000

I see sheep wrote: »

Hate to break this to you but we all come from Africa.

I'd say the benefit of that mass migration is our existence on the planet.

In modern terms (I believe) mass migration is needed because capitalism requires an increasing number of consumers (3% gdp increase i think) to sustain itself.

If you disagree with mass migration you disagree with capitalism and are happy for it's end I assume? (trying to debate here )

Agreed. Will you be migrating to Africa or the middle east yourself?

This will get you started:

https://www.hotnigerianjobs.com/

Hope it all goes well. Might see you next Christmas if you visit.

I see sheep

Sand wrote: »

You're American aren't you? Either that or you're so wholly absorbed into their cultural battles that you cant help using the same tropes here.

Funny question, I'd put money on you being American a mhac.

But no sorry, I'm from the west of Ireland.

Strumms

The happy medium is getting lost in the arguments.

I’d love if say we had the capacity and capability to say...”yes , we are going to accept say 5000 (using number for example) per annum, after that, doors are shut, that’s the annual acceptance quota.” Some years I’m reading we have accepted upwards of 50,000 per annum, of whom none are Irish nationals. That’s only slightly less in number than the entire population of Waterford, arriving wishing to live here. I’m getting this info from the cso website, it’s kinda mind blowing.

Arthur Daley

FGFF are looking to bring in migrants purely to satisy the same various vested interests that ran the show up to 2008 and subsequently got bailed out.

It is all about increasing competition in the labour market and keeping pressure on to maintain high rents and high property prices.

It also appeases the EU dogma, being vigourously opposed in France, Italy and Eastern Europe.

Proper socialists like we used to have, men like Tony Benn opposed this open border philosophy as it shafted the indigenous working and lower middle classes.

What passes for the modern 'left' are no such thing and not fit to shine the boots of proper old school socialists who understand this.

Does Cuba, bastion of socialism have open borders?

jmayo

I see sheep wrote: »

I do get a wee bit fired up about this yeah.

I'm restating this but Irish people faced discrimination and racism for a long long time in the UK, Australia & US and a lot of the anti immigration rhetoric in this thread is exactly what was said about Irish people.

I have heard it the UK and Oz straight from the horses mouth (Australians still making jokes about Irish people being ignorant, lol a lot of Aussies are sadly very ignorant and backward people)

When the Irish went to these countries we damn well worked, in fact we helped build these countries, but they were different times.
There was lots of work, the New World countries were growing, they needed people.
And we were often the navvies, the labourers.
Bar the last 30/40 years in UK, we never got any handouts.

smurgen wrote: »

Have to say I like multi-culturalism. I work in a diverse office with folk from all over and we've lots of open conversation about all sorts. Different customs and religions. Lots of slagging etc and it adds to the atmosphere of the place. I haven't seen the alleged bad sides that others have seen such as social welfare tourism etc so I can't comment there. I think as a country it would be sensible for us to have a point based system to ensure we're getting people that can pay their own way.

If I was you I would be very careful of the slagging.
What you could have gotten away with years ago, now might land you with a boot out the door if someone decides to take offense.
Just sayin.

I see sheep

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Agreed. Will you be migrating to Africa or the middle east yourself?

Agreed with what?

I'd love to for a couple of years, I've been around a bit.
But hard to make a living in Africa I'd imagine, I guess that's why a lot of people are sick of living in poverty and are trying for a better life.

Swamp_Cat

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The plan states that the population will grow by 1 million, and that at least half of that will come from from outside Ireland.

Simon Coveny
"We estimate over the next 20 years that the population of Ireland will certainly grow by an extra million people. Linked to that estimate is that half of that number won't have been born in Ireland. I think that will be a really good thing for Irish society but we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction."

How is that possible? I have looked into the possibility of moving to Ireland for the past decade as my best friend+ lives there & after spending enough time there I've never felt home again here in the states*. If you don't have a special skillset or a lot of money, you ain't getting more than 90 days. At least as an American citizen. I'm eligible for a Portuguese passport but am one too many generations removed from having that privilege in Ireland.
*If my radio is on it's more often than not tuned to kclr, I can name more hurlers, young and old, junior to Senior, club & IC, than I could name athletes here. On & on I could go. May sound strange to you but not as strange as it is to me. I just feel more at home there than here somehow. ? Anyway, it's a complicated topic & one I'm not really qualified to truly contribute to. But I do feel Ireland is still Irish. May it stay that way always.

I see sheep

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Does Cuba, bastion of socialism have open borders?

Glad they kept all those Argentinians out of Cuba.