What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

ArchXStanton

It seems boards memory hole is alive and well on this thread...

I see sheep

jmayo wrote: »

When the Irish went to these countries we damn well worked, in fact we helped build these countries, but they were different times.
There was lots of work, the New World countries were growing, they needed people.
And we were often the navvies, the labourers.
Bar the last 30/40 years in UK, we never got any handouts.



If I was you I would be very careful of the slagging.
What you could have gotten away with years ago, now might land you with a boot out the door if someone decides to take offense.
Just sayin.

I'll give you credit for at least answering the questions unlike most people here.

- Migrants now also do work
- There is lots of jobs, (Pre covid anyway) 'menial' jobs that Irish/UK people don't want to do / construction (in London come on, there's endless construction projects)
- Re-stating myself but if we keep on a capitalism model people will always be needed, always!
- Migrants are still the navvies/ the labourers
- Yeah, maybe no big government handouts back in the day I agree, but I am yet to be convinced that most immigrants are taking big handouts. It's honestly not my experience. And in the UK the dole is peanuts.

ExMachina1000

I see sheep wrote: »

Agreed with what?

I'd love to for a couple of years, I've been around a bit.
But hard to make a living in Africa I'd imagine, I guess that's why a lot of people are sick of living in poverty and are trying for a better life.

Theres just too many. No dice.

Beasty

ArchXStanton wrote: »

It seems boards memory hole is alive and well on this thread...

If you are wondering where your off topic posts have gone, perhaps drop a mod a PM and ask

Now back on topic

Do not respond to this post in-thread

Sand

I see sheep wrote: »

Funny question, I'd put money on you being American a mhac.

But no sorry, I'm from the west of Ireland.

Well, then we both lost some money. So where is the bible belt in Ireland exactly?

4068ac1elhodqr

I see sheep wrote: »

- Re-stating myself but if we keep on a capitalism model people will always be needed, always!
.

Fake news.

Automation will make many human assets redundant before too long. Circa 50% of all current roles will not exist by 2030, the vast majority of any new jobs will be highly skilled jobs, for fluent and educated graduates.

The blackmarket will also shortly be closed for illegal migrants.

The very last thing you want is millions of illegal economic migrants from A&ME who are already over-represented in many EU states for crimes and incarceration, including the hideous crime of rape.

There is also issues of ideological and cultural conflict from A&ME, that many other zones of the world do not present within Europe.

Swamp_Cat

Risingshadoo wrote: »

Immigration is always a bad thing. Just look at America.

There's a big difference between immigration and illegal immigration.

It's the illegal part that's had the biggest impact here. My country has become a complete joke for many reasons. Illegal immigration being only one part.

Arthur Daley

Spot on re: automation. And the establishment political parties are fully aware of this. Universal basic income is in the programme for govt.

So when the elite politicians and media throw open our borders ahead of the mass redundancies coming down the line, people logically get nervous and seek out explanations of who is conspiring against them.

Clarence Boddiker

Swamp_Cat wrote: »

How is that possible? I have looked into the possibility of moving to Ireland for the past decade as my best friend+ lives there & after spending enough time there I've never felt home again here in the states*. If you don't have a special skillset or a lot of money, you ain't getting more than 90 days. At least as an American citizen. I'm eligible for a Portuguese passport but am one too many generations removed from having that privilege in Ireland.
*If my radio is on it's more often than not tuned to kclr, I can name more hurlers, young and old, junior to Senior, club & IC, than I could name athletes here. On & on I could go. May sound strange to you but not as strange as it is to me. I just feel more at home there than here somehow. ? Anyway, it's a complicated topic & one I'm not really qualified to truly contribute to. But I do feel Ireland is still Irish. May it stay that way always.

Doesn't sound strange to me at all, personally I welcome the return of our diaspora and I would prefer, Like in Israel, if immigration is needed then those with Irish heritage should have first priority.
And before anyone denounces me as racist I have mixed race cousins in America who would love to move here..why? Because they're in touch with their Irish roots and don't just see Ireland as an economic opportunity.

ExMachina1000

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

Fake news.

Automation will make many human assets redundant before too long. Circa 50% of all current roles will not exist by 2030, the vast majority of any new jobs will be highly skilled jobs, for fluent and educated graduates.

The blackmarket will also shortly be closed for illegal migrants.

The very last thing you want is millions of illegal economic migrants from A&ME who are already over-represented in many EU states for crimes and incarceration, including the hideous crime of rape.

There is also issues of ideological and cultural conflict from A&ME, that many other zones of the world do not present within Europe.

Many of those high skilled jobs will be moved to countries where cost of business is much cheaper

Arthur Daley

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Doesn't sound strange to me at all, personally I welcome the return of our diaspora and I would prefer, Like in Israel, if immigration is needed then those with Irish heritage should have first priority.
And before anyone denounces me as racist I have mixed race cousins in America who would love to move here..why? Because they're in touch with their Irish roots and don't just see Ireland as an economic opportunity.

Bringing Irish home was in the Fine Gael manifesto as recently as the 2016 general election.

They promised to bring back tens of thousands of Irish by 2020. Of course they failed spectacularly.

I see sheep

I see sheep wrote: »

I do get a wee bit fired up about this yeah.

I'm restating this but Irish people faced discrimination and racism for a long long time in the UK, Australia & US and a lot of the anti immigration rhetoric in this thread is exactly what was said about Irish people.

Different times, and there were reasons in many instances. You seem to want to ignore the effect of history and how society/cultural norms have shifted. The Irish faced racism in the UK because of past stereotypes, but also because of the troubles in the North. Just as the Irish faced stereotype problems in the US, but it's worth considering how those stereotypes came about. Where the Irish were clannish, kept within Irish neighborhoods, lacking in basic hygiene, prone to drunkenness and violence, etc. Many of the stereotypes which were thrown at Irish people, were pretty accurate considering the Ireland they came from, and the culture they brought with them.

Is it fair to throw stereotypes on everyone? Nope. It's not.. however, in spite of the claims about equality or racism disappearing, such stereotypes are often very strong throughout the world. Hell, many Irish glorify in the stereotype of hard drinkers, and brawlers.

I have heard it the UK and Oz straight from the horses mouth (Australians still making jokes about Irish people being ignorant, lol a lot of Aussies are sadly very ignorant and backward people)

I lived in Brisbane for two years, and I found them to be mostly lovely people. I didn't experience any racism directed my way, but I saw their racism towards the Aboriginals or Asians. As for the Irish, I would repeat that we, ourselves, made that reputation. Back packers, and holiday makers coming over, getting wasted, causing trouble, and fights. I worked in a hostel for a while, and the Irish/English groups were the worst customers because they typically had large fights at least once a week.

The problem with the modern attitude towards racism is this mistaken belief that it's disappeared or been substantially removed somewhere. I don't know of any country where it's been removed as a behavior in people. The internet is worse still, since people often apply double standards. Where they'll cry out against racism, and then happily engage in reverse racism themselves.

We should be trying to diminish racism in any society. That's a given. However, it's worth considering why that racism exists, and whether we're simply being too sensitive. In a world that is increasingly becoming globalised, we need to be more patient with others, not less. Getting angry whenever someone throws out a stereotype, generalisation, etc is not going to improve relations between groups.

I've lived extensively in Asia, where racism is common. I've also traveled through East Africa, and found plenty of racism by just about everyone. Oddly enough, I found very little actual racism in the M.East (apart from the gulf states which were awful), although it was more to do with religion than race. And Europe? A bit, although I consider it to be growing rather than diminishing. Why?

Because of this intolerance and labeling of others as racist. this shutting down of others opinions, with sweeping claims of racism or hate speech. Multiculturalism is dangerous, because we're being forced to accept it, without any consideration to the feelings of native groups.

Clarence Boddiker

I see sheep wrote: »

Re-stating myself but if we keep on a capitalism model people will always be needed, always!

Let's dial back on the unrestrained Capitalism then. You're correct in saying Capitalism requires infinity low wage migrants, infinity consumers. Fresh meat for the grinder unhindered by bad credit ratings.

Mass migration is first and foremost a Capitalist pursuit. It is absolutely for the benefit of Capitalism. 'Diversity' and 'Multiculturalism' are merely the cover story to fool the masses.
I'm certainly not any kind of Communist but we really need to abandon this race to the bottom.

I see sheep

Sloan Hundreds Village wrote: »

Fake news.

Automation will make many human assets redundant before too long. Circa 50% of all current roles will not exist by 2030, the vast majority of any new jobs will be highly skilled jobs, for fluent and educated graduates.

The blackmarket will also shortly be closed for illegal migrants.

The very last thing you want is millions of illegal economic migrants from A&ME who are already over-represented in many EU states for crimes and incarceration, including the hideous crime of rape.

There is also issues of ideological and cultural conflict from A&ME, that many other zones of the world do not present within Europe.

Love all this future knowledge Marty :rolleyes:
Any tips for Cheltenham?

I see sheep

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Let's dial back on the unrestrained Capitalism then. You're correct in saying Capitalism requires infinity low wage migrants, infinity consumers. Fresh meat for the grinder unhindered by bad credit ratings.

Mass migration is first and foremost a Capitalist pursuit. It is absolutely for the benefit of Capitalism. 'Diversity' and 'Multiculturalism' are merely the cover story to fool the masses.
I'm certainly not any kind of Communist but we really need to abandon this race to the bottom.

Then why aren't you for the end of capitalism?

That's the real problem (if you don't like migration)

Clarence Boddiker

I see sheep wrote: »

Then why aren't you for the end of capitalism?

That's the real problem (if you don't like migration)

I am for the end of that type of Capitalism. There's a balance and a middle way. It doesn't have to be total Capitalism or total Communism. I'm for the middle ground.

I see sheep

I see sheep wrote: »

Then why aren't you for the end of capitalism?

That's the real problem (if you don't like migration)

You still have to prove that capitalism would end because of limited or zero migration... because there is still a reasonably large population in Europe. And even with a smaller population, the market would simply shift in scope, with different economies coming into effect, thereby keeping capitalism... so... go on, prove to me about capitalism being intrinsically linked to immigration...

Birth rates are falling, in part, due to rising costs, which demand people to work/save longer before starting a family, which in turn, decreases the numbers of children (since having children past 40 years old is still quite risky for all manner of reasons). Lowering the living costs, making more housing available to couples, etc would all encourage birth rates to grow again....

There's also the blowback due to feminism where more women are choosing not to focus on careers, but are aiming to have families instead. We saw birth rates drop considerably with women leaving the home to have primary careers, but that's changing as more women find that kind of lifestyle unfulfilling. Providing greater supports for families would also help increase birth rates.

Migration isn't the only answer...

Clarence Boddiker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I am for the end of that type of Capitalism. There's a balance and a middle way. It doesn't have to be total Capitalism or total Communism. I'm for the middle ground.

Exactly. The middle ground. Any absolute system is doomed to failure. We don't want to be following in the steps of the US with their massive wealth inequalities, which in many ways, is connected with their obsession with capitalism.

Danno

Mr. Karate wrote: »

And set up a dependable voting block that will vote unanimously for them.

Taking a leaf out of the "Democrat" Party play book.

Danno

I see sheep wrote: »

I do get a wee bit fired up about this yeah.

I'm restating this but Irish people faced discrimination and racism for a long long time in the UK, Australia & US and a lot of the anti immigration rhetoric in this thread is exactly what was said about Irish people.

Two things here - the Irish people when they emigrated had NO social security safety net to fall back upon in those countries. Contrast that with immigrants arriving on our shores, especially from non-EU states.

Secondly, too damn right the Irish were subject to hostility when they were undercutting the rates of the local workforce. Think back to the days soon after the crash here and how Eastern European builders were undercutting Irish builders. Even our "buddies" north of the border were at it. Look at all the fine schools that were built and had to be retrofitted.

Clarence Boddiker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I am for the end of that type of Capitalism. There's a balance and a middle way. It doesn't have to be total Capitalism or total Communism. I'm for the middle ground.

Absolutely, we can't keep never ending growth, stripping the earth of its resources and creating monumental levels of waste indefinitely. That sort of capitalism shouldn't be the future.

weldoninhio

I see sheep wrote: »

Agreed with what?

I'd love to for a couple of years, I've been around a bit.
But hard to make a living in Africa I'd imagine, I guess that's why a lot of people are sick of living in poverty and are trying for a better life.

That’s a very colonial attitude. Taking all the lovely multiculturism from Africa and keeping it to ourselves. I say all our European open borders/multiculturalist loons and NGO workers should head to Africa to set up wonderful multiculturism over there, rather than hoarding it all in Europe. Think of all the lovely new foods you could bring to them.

weldoninhio

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Bringing Irish home was in the Fine Gael manifesto as recently as the 2016 general election.

They promised to bring back tens of thousands of Irish by 2020. Of course they failed spectacularly.

They got Ibrahim back, the “Egyptian who lives in Ireland”

jmreire

weldoninhio wrote: »

That’s a very colonial attitude. Taking all the lovely multiculturism from Africa and keeping it to ourselves. I say all our European open borders/multiculturalist loons and NGO workers should head to Africa to set up wonderful multiculturism over there, rather than hoarding it all in Europe. Think of all the lovely new foods you could bring to them.

Very true, and if all the pro-multicultural supporters were to actually go and live in these Country'a for a length of time, there would be far fewer of them. And this craziness of expanding the worker base to support the retirees, for which apparently we need a continuous supply of migrant's ...what happen's when these increased Nrs reach their retirement age? Keep feeding into an ever more expanding base? This is not sustainable,

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely, we can't keep never ending growth, stripping the earth of its resources and creating monumental levels of waste indefinitely. That sort of capitalism shouldn't be the future.

This is the problem I am wrestling with myself. The above sounds like a nihilistic approach in the way capitalism is being pursued currently. I love capitalism but I think it's we'll overdue a revamp. The ever increasing push for short term thinking is a result of short term incentives given to executives and shareholders. It's a false economy and people who do not benefit from the financial aspect will pay for it due to the externalities of production. We are all going to suffer if we do not push for more gradual, sustainable growth and development.

jmreire

Just saw a joke posted on the net:-
Foreigner speaking to a European:-
Its all you European's fault that we have such trouble and strife in the world today..... with your carving up our Country's as you wished,,,,cutting across our natural and our cultural boundary's, without any input from from local people's. These were un-natural constructs, forcing people to mix with other people of different cultures and disposition. And you wonder why we have war's and disruption?
European: So, as a result of your experience of European interference, you are completely against "MultiCulture"?
Foreigner:---- What?
European :- When the Europeans forced you all to integrate as a result of carving up the boundaries, and you experienced "Multiculturism"
you have turned completely against it?
Foreigner:- Yes,,,
Foreigner:- pause....
Foreigner:- NO, I mean NO.

Mr. teddywinkles

A lot of future ****holes across Europe id reckon.
And yes capitalism has a lot to blame for this. Pure and utter greed. No matter the cost.

Eric Cartman

jmreire wrote: »

Very true, and if all the pro-multicultural supporters were to actually go and live in these Country'a for a length of time, there would be far fewer of them. And this craziness of expanding the worker base to support the retirees, for which apparently we need a continuous supply of migrant's ...what happen's when these increased Nrs reach their retirement age? Keep feeding into an ever more expanding base? This is not sustainable,

and this is half the problem, instead of trying to attract a much smaller number of high income earners and the wealthy to contribute to our tax base and fund those pensions, we, along with the rest of europe have chosen hoards of detractors who don't contribute enough to sustain themselves , let alone the pensions. The cynic in me thinks its all a ploy to either lobby the EU for more money to fund the migrants and pensions once we get over a certain debt to gdp ratio or just allow Ireland to sink back into poverty and say 'sure we just don't have the money, fend for yourselves'

Mr. teddywinkles

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

A lot of future ****holes across Europe id reckon.
And yes capitalism has a lot to blame for this. Pure and utter greed. No matter the cost.

Why blame capitalism? It's just an approach to economics. People tend to expand the scope of concepts far too much these days. There's nothing inherently wrong with capitalism, since it's an integral part of any successful economies worldwide. It's only with extremely small/limited groups that capitalism could be ignored and remain successful, but invariably they fail or move towards capitalist structures over time.

The problem isn't capitalism. The problem is short term thinking with desires for quick bursts of pleasure. That pleasure might be some kind of virtue signal, or even a more honest desire to help others, but without real commitment to researching the situation, and making effective stage based plans, things invariably go sour over time. Consequences are nasty things and in any democratic system where politicians are not responsible for what happens a decade after their term, there will be nasty consequences for short term planning. We've set up a political system which encourages our leaders to focus on small periods of time, rather than being responsible for long term gains.

The thing is that greed is too simple a reason. Take the British Empire for example. Their desire to expand was as a result of the threat that France, Russia etc represented to them, both as an empire and as a trading power. Their actual continued existence was dependent on their ability to increase their power and wealth. The same with most nations worldwide, except that European powers took it further than most. Greed is never the real answer for what happens.. there's always reasons that go far beyond greed.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Tipperary animal lover

https://twitter.com/i/status/1289957547726659591
Happy out