What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406588#Comment_119406588

Along with all the anger/bitterness over resources being expended on foreigners while Irish people are struggling.

There's always something for a select group to be angry at

• Foreigners
• Unemployed
• Other religion / culture

It's always been that way and is unlikely to change as some folk always need someone to blame for the problems in their lives

Everytime there's any kind of a downturn you'll see hate towards the above increase. It was the same during the last downturn and the one before that and so on

malinheader

A long standing hotel in my area has been sold i was told today. Not to many hotels in the area i am in for tourists.

Anyhow I was told once sold it will be closed to the public and used for Ukranians. It appears now developers are buying up these hotels for this purpose as its a gold mine of government Money.

What is to become to some of our small towns and villages i dread to think.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406732#Comment_119406732

You do realise that Ireland is for the Irish?

Irish first in Ireland.

Australia for the Australians,

Australians first in Australia.

Nigeria for the Nigerians,

Nigerians first in Nigeria.

Brazil for the Brazilians,

Brazilians first in Brazil.

Countries and nations were and are assembled amongst people with a similar and shared culture/identity and for the benefit of those with shared characteristics. People are tribal, it's human nature - it's high time you got over it and accepted that as fact.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406588#Comment_119406588

Yes the lazy approach many politicians, the media and people take is worrying. Every action has drawbacks and effects elsewhere.

Take the "End Direct Provision" movement, I have yet to hear a suggestion from them that wouldn't have very large trade offs. (have my own thoughts on this of course). Or, as referenced before. Darragh OBrien insisting OGormans, doors for all approach wouldn't effect housing.

Too much of the country is drunk on multinational tax proceeds to make actual decisions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406801#Comment_119406801

We're all one big tribe so it's all relative

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406829#Comment_119406829

It is ironic how this plentiful multinational tax money tree is the result of past leaders who put Ireland first while knowing that it will piss off other countries. This is what made Ireland have one of the highest standard of living, and now these people are throwing it away for anyone that comes with their hand out because why not, we're all a big tribe anyway.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407123#Comment_119407123

Sure we are. Wars and conflict are only Hollywood illusions. Putin in Ukraine is a figment of our imaginations.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406732#Comment_119406732

Another good reason why "multiculturalism" is a failure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407123#Comment_119407123

Nope, we're not. Pick any decade in history on any continent since the written word was invented and you will see an example or more than one of the utter nonsense of your statement. Yet another example of this woolly headed idealism and naivete in play with no concept of reality or history or human nature, or a deliberate ignorance of same.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403603#Comment_119403603

Western culture was around long before Christianity, its fair to say Christianity is as much based off Western culture as vice versa

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408405#Comment_119408405

Very much so. When Christianity, a middle eastern Jewish faith in origin, hit the Greco-Roman world it was very much shaped to that existing world or it very likely wouldn't have survived for long. For a start they got rid of the circumcision requirement as that was seen by the classical world as the practice of primitive barbarians. They also got rid of all the food restrictions. Well good luck separating an Italian from his or her ham. 😁 If you look at the later Islam, the other Judaism Part II, because they were from the Middle East not the Classical world they kept all the mickey snipping and food restriction stuff.

The Church itself was moulded along imperial Roman lines. It's not called the Roman Catholic Church for the craic. To replace the myriad gods and goddesses in the clasical mind they rattled up the notion of saints to replace them. They even had the same kinda dominion over different aspects of life. The patron saint of [insert thing here]. "Pagan" feasts were replaced by Easter and Christmas etc. There were no female deities in the new faith so Mary, though she is mentioned in the actual texts only briefly, was slotted in to replace deities like Diana. Being "The Mother of God" helped there. Women saints replaced the pantheon of the lesser godesses. This Marian part of Christianity up to the Reformation was huge and remains huge in Catholicism. The various newly minted Protestant faiths that sprang up went "back to basics" and got rid of much of that, but their basic texts had already been heavily filtered through the Greco-Roman world. Note how few of the mainstream ones returned to hunting foreskins and banning ham sandwiches.

If anything and because of the relative paucity of original Christian texts the Classical world survived and was transmitted through Christianity. During the so called "Dark Ages" when Rome was in ruins and goats grazed the forum, the Church was pretty much the only repository of that deep cultural history and was the means by which it survived and was spread again throughout Europe on the back of Church missions. At least the western Roman stuff(when our own John Scottus, he of the old fivers, went to Rome the locals were shocked with his command of Greek). Byzantium and Islam preserved much more of the Eastern Greek stuff because of geography and when the former finally fell to the Ottomans, much of that flooded into Western Europe on the backs of Byzantines legging it from the Muslim invaders. Handily just when moveable type printing was kicking off*. A goodly chunk of the Greek stuff had previously ended up in Muslim Spain and when that fell the new Christian rulers got busy with translating from Arabic all this cool Greek and later Islamic stuff(the latter improved on and was heavily influenced by the former). It took root, but mostly among the clergy and the rich as it was a few centuries before printing made it for the "common man".

*one smart fecker who was a publisher in Venice at the time, then one of the richest states on the planet, came up with the first cheaper "pocket sized", like paperbacks really. Books that sold very well. He also invented italic script, but not for emphasis, he felt it was more casual a text for the popular titles and could be made smaller and still be read easily. So anyway he sees this new Greek stuff coming into the place as a real potential money spinner. So the first thing he published along those lines was a book on how to learn Greek with a Greek-Latin/Italian dictionary as he considered they should be read in the original. Then he published a load of these "new" Greek texts. Hot cakes wasn't in it. When he died friends and family surrounded his body in his coffin with books. I wish I could remember his bloody name.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406829#Comment_119406829

haha.. I'm still waiting for a practical answer for what's going to replace DP... apart from just letting them loose in Ireland, with the "Ahh sure, it'll be grand" comment tacked on to it. They've been so gung-ho to remove DP, they've forgotten why DP was originally proposed.. and those same considerations haven't disappeared.

Just ignored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409426#Comment_119409426

As well DP is supposed to be a flexible system, so if you get an influx of people you can accomodate them, likewise if you have less people you don't have unused space.

With the system Roderick has proposed there will be places for 2,000 people at a time in the centres with the max stay being 4 months, they've said that it will be a flow through of 3,500 per year so by their metric there will be a lot of time when the rooms will be empty. Leaving aside the Ukranians, I think in the first 5 months of the year, they had 5k people entering the asylum system. So unless they put in a cap on the amount of people claiming, even with O'Gormans 4 month system, there will still have to be direct provision.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/07/30/surge-in-georgians-requesting-asylum-raises-fears-the-country-could-lose-its-visa-free-travel-status-in-europe/

Surely Ireland should be doing the same for South Africa too, given all thats been in the papers recently about the levels of fraudulent SA passports

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409907#Comment_119409907

So unless they put in a cap on the amount of people claiming, even with O'Gormans 4 month system, there will still have to be direct provision.

I agree, however it would mean going against everything they've promoted for the last 4-5 years. Also when it comes to the idea for what replaces DP it's fantasy land, with the expectation that nothing will go wrong, and/or nobody will seek to take advantage of the system.. and I don't mean the Asylum seekers themselves. Asylum claims are only going to increase.. not decrease. Other European nations are getting much stricter on Asylum applications and their approval, so, naturally those people will look to wherever is easiest, while still gaining access into the EU. Make sense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408405#Comment_119408405

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409123#Comment_119409123

Chicken and the egg.

The point is the foundational values within western culture, and most of the common values shared between western nations comes from the periods from the establishment of Christianity in Europe through to modern days. How many of our values would you link to Gaul, Rome, Macedonia, or whatever? It's not a claim about the history of Western culture and when it started.

The relatively modern (last couple of hundred years) is the basis for what exists today.. and most of our philosophers, statesmen, etc were supporting, countering or reacting to the influence of the RCC, whether due to their personal beliefs (spiritual/moral/social) or whether due to how the RCC as a political identity affected the nations, duchies, or any region. The reformation (along with the counter reformation) and the consequences towards social development of many Western nations is a decent example of that influence. Just as the anti-slavery movements in Europe in many cases originated with those having strong religious viewpoints (as did many slavers), but a lot of the debate was couched in terms of morality and spiritualism originally.

I could write reams on where my view is coming from.. but 😁

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409974#Comment_119409974

Oh the Reformation made serious waves within European culture, but even so if we look at the basis of what exists today in European law for example; that's a mix of Roman(codified by Justinian) and canon law. The ideals, if not the practice of democracy, government, the rule of law, republics, limitations on rulers and the like are Greco-Roman in origin. While the European tree grew in one direction or the other depending on the winds of the time the classical world roots run deep and in ways that would be mostly alien to Middle Eastern and Far Eastern cultures that came to similar, if they came to them at all, because of European influence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407123#Comment_119407123

So......there is no racism then since we're all one big tribe? So All Lives Matter?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410698#Comment_119410698

Justinian was a Christian emperor, so my point stands.. 😂 although TBH I think you're arguing a different point to mine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410706#Comment_119410706

I remember my Grandfather, who was a farmer in Carlow, and his take on those from "other" counties. Now, the Dubs received his strongest distrust, but he had a variety of negative views based on stereotypes and personal experiences of other Irish people, especially those from up North. Even when I was younger, I went to work/live in Cork (I'm from the midlands) and regularly run across those with views about other counties, or various cliques.

We were never one big tribe... and nowadays we're divided along more lines, based on modern social movements and political groupings. This focus on emotional safety, being sensitive, etc all leads to less tolerance in society, and racism/culturalism is going to become more evident in our western societies.

mazdamiatamx5

This documentary, Last Whites of the East End, may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na_wxwhgDMA&ab_channel=GeniusPatience

It's from the uber-PC BBC so can't be accused of racism.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411755#Comment_119411755

I have witnessed this first hand.

I have gone back and visited places I worked along time ago. Some are no go areas to the likes of me now and unrecognisable from when I lived there..

Really Really sad that the people who used live here have been pushed out and are now a minority in their own country.

I think that the Ukraine situation has turbocharged something that was starting to happen. And that is turning the refugee industry into exactly that: an industry. My fear is that it will now become a massive and sustained transfer of wealth from the Irish taxpayer to private companies who have identified, quite rightly, that it is profitable to be involved in the provision of services, most notably accommodation, to refugees.

And wherever there is money, there is lobbying and other efforts to keep the income coming. And of course the ‘raw material’ in this refugee industry is a continuous steady stream of people. The Ukraine situation will build up the gravy train and keep it going for a while. And when that dries up my fear is that there will be such a refugee industry grown up (NGOs, accommodation providers) that our government will be looking for other ways to keep the doors open to as many as possible

it will have a disastrous effect on our culture and the provision of services. But there’ll be money to be made

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411755#Comment_119411755

It's called white flight for a reason. The upper and middle class whites will be the first to leave when the diversity becomes obvious in spite of what they say publicly - no one actually likes to live is such a place.

Mr. Karate II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412357#Comment_119412357

Why do you think they always fight to make sure their communities are exempt from receiving refugees? Remember the uproar when someone posted a poster up in Varadkar's community that a Direct Provision/Refugee Centre was coming there? Nimbyism at it's finest.

Cordell

Yeah but we're supposed to not notice this things, or if we do don't talk about them and pretend they don't exist.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411847#Comment_119411847

What’s sad about it? People weren’t pushed out, they left of their own accord for what they imagined would be a better place to live than where they were.

I also wonder how you’re classifying groups as minorities in their own countries, because of course it stands to reason cockneys are a minority in their own country of 56 million people.

That documentary isn’t making any different points to this discussion on ITV from 30 years earlier -

https://youtu.be/ZKcCGs86M2M

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412929#Comment_119412929

Why did they have to leave the place they lived looking for a better place. What changed the place they lived. Yes they left of their own accord but why. What happened that they had to do this.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413451#Comment_119413451

The East End became deindustrialised - where there were once thriving industries which provided opportunities and employment for previous generations, they didn’t exist any longer. Some people chose to stay because it was their home, some people chose to leave for better opportunities in places like Essex.

It certainly wasn’t because any of them discovered they were racist anyway, all the documentary’s participants went to great lengths to point that out, even the one participant who claimed it was ethnic genocide, because Muslims don’t drink. They also don’t socialise in the working men’s clubs that were at risk of closure because the owner couldn’t make £12,000 on the weekends any more.

Most bizarre part of the documentary for me was when said owner went upstairs to the old dears doing tea dancing and told them “keep the language down” 😳 No wonder one old dear wanted to move out of the area to be closer to her children when her husband died after 70 years of marriage - turns out the owner was nothing more than a working class authoritarian - he obviously preferred a time when he didn’t have to pander to minorities, and now he appeared to be desperately clutching to the last vestiges of authority he has in what he imagines was his “close community”. It clearly wasn’t as close as he thought when people left as soon as they saw better opportunities for themselves and their families elsewhere, much like the rural to urban migration that happens in every country and society in the world, regardless of whether you’re talking about Europe, America, Australia, India, China, or the Stans -

https://knightscholar.geneseo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1236&context=proceedings-of-great-day

Gentrification will fix that right up -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

Arthur Daley

It's a warning to all. If they can do that in London Town, they can do it anywhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413451#Comment_119413451

They left of their own accord... did they really? All of them? Cause I've seen the videos online showing the changes to French suburbs, and how Muslim males intimidate/bully French women in the streets for not dressing as Islamic women did. There's going to be similarities in behaviour when one or another foreign culture manages to take over a neighbourhood with significant numbers, whereby they can enforce their cultural/religious beliefs on to others.

People are intimidated into leaving. They see the standards in living, the increase in violent crime, or the introduction of other forms of crime which might have been absent or low-key previously. The local environment changes.. so while people might leave of their own accord.. in reality they were pushed out by change. Negative change in many cases (not always, but there is a trend in many Western towns/cities)

Strumms

I actually wonder what might happen if there was an Islamic terror attack here, shooting, bombing, stabbing, whatever….

Also….Money laundering and terrorist financing has been acknowledged to be prevalent here that is supporting this terrorism..which might be why nothing has transpired here…